So who's going to see the Pope?

batgoat

Patww79 wrote: »

Are you allowed to be a practicing Catholic if you want to be though? Because I'm not seeing the freedom to be one from a lot of peoples attitudes.

Mary McAleese is a practising Catholic but she's still willing to stand up the church and how they behave.

1hnr79jr65

Patww79 wrote: »

Are you allowed to be a practicing Catholic if you want to be though? Because from what I'm seeing, I'm not seeing the freedom to be one from a lot of peoples attitudes.

Don't need a church to have belief or practice your beliefs.

You are free to worship what you believe in, but society does not need a corrupt organisation for you to do that.

shakeitoff

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

OldMrBrennan83

batgoat wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a practising Catholic but she's still willing to stand up the church and how they behave.

Mary McAleese didn't give much of a **** until it had a direct effect on one of her own, so I wouldn't see her as some hero of the people.

A lot of rage and denial in that woman too and she's doing a whole lot of venting.


_

Sardine

I went through the Catholic rigmarole in school and enjoyed it for the most part. Neither of my parents were really into it and I don’t believe in god for a second. Francis seems like a good guy and I don’t envy by him having to be the face of widespread paedophilia.
For some reason this whole thing is upsetting me a little. The sparse crowds and just how ridiculous and odd the whole thing looks. Grown men in strange outfits chanting etc. I think I’m sad the Ireland of my youth is dead, one I had a great childhood in, many didn’t. It had to die and change though. I’m feeling strangely emotional over all this.

GarIT

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

Teaching fairytales as fact isn't good for anyone's development. Sure the values they write down are good but not the values they practice.

OldMrBrennan83

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

Don't need a church to have belief or practice your beliefs.

You are free to worship what you believe in, but society does not need a corrupt organisation for you to do that.

But what if you want to go to a church? Other religions are afforded this, but Catholics shouldn't be?

rafatoni

Allinall wrote: »

A guard quoting stats????

was just thinking the same. Lol

1hnr79jr65

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

I am 36, born in Ireland, never baptized, never made communion, never made confirmation, never attended a religious class and i have good life values.

Didn't need a church for that, just decent role models and life guidance.

Patww79

Patww79 wrote: »

Are you allowed to be a practicing Catholic if you want to be though? Because I'm not seeing the freedom to be one from a lot of peoples attitudes.

oh jesus let go of the pearls

who stopped u

shenanagans

batgoat wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a practising Catholic but she's still willing to stand up the church and how they behave.

Nothing to do with getting publicity for her son who is looking to run for FF in next election. She was happy to take Catholic vote when running for president. She'd crawl over broken glass to get in front of a camera at present.

OldMrBrennan83

Deleted User wrote: »

oh jesus let go of the pearls

who stopped u

Nobody stopped anyone, I'm replying to the people who want to see the religion wiped out. Keep up.

CruelCoin

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

How would you presume to teach immaculate conception, feeding thousands from a few fish and loaves, physics breaking arks, talking snakes and a 40 year trek through the desert (that Google maps says you can do in a week) in a "21st century context"

1hnr79jr65

Patww79 wrote: »

But what if you want to go to a church? Other religions are afforded this, but Catholics shouldn't be?

No need for any organisation for anyone to believe what they want, i would gladly ban all mosques, synagogues, churches.

Worship at home or with friends or in the woods for all i care, just don't need corrupt organisations.

If an organisation (new name for any religious institution) was a nursing home where staff mentally, sexually or physically abused or stole from someone, then there would be investigations, charges, and consequences.

Guy:Incognito

Patww79 wrote: »

But what if you want to go to a church? Other religions are afforded this, but Catholics shouldn't be?

None of them need churches, or golden palaces full of trinkets like the Vatican. But they can be discussed elsewhere. This thread is about the pope.

1hnr79jr65

Patww79 wrote: »

Nobody stopped anyone, I'm replying to the people who want to see the religion wiped out. Keep up.

Where did i say i wanted to see religion wiped out? i said the organisations need wiping out.

OldMrBrennan83

Sour Lemonz wrote: »

No need for any organisation for anyone to believe what they want, i would gladly ban all mosques, synagogues, churches.

Worship at home or with friends or in the woods for all i care, just don't need corrupt organisations.

If an organisation (new name for any religious institution) was a nursing home where staff mentally, sexually or physically abused or stole from someone, then there would be investigations, charges, and consequences.

There would indeed. Banning all nursing homes wouldn't be one of them though.

Strazdas

Mike Loud Embryo wrote: »

I didn't go and had no interest in going but the intolerance shown in this thread is astounding and, frankly, worries me when I consider the future for Irish society.

I suspect it's a handful of shrill voices and doesn't reflect Irish society in general.

Internet forums (and newspaper comments sections and social media) tend to attract extreme / angry viewpoints that tend to give a very misleading picture of what is going on.

OldMrBrennan83

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

None of them need churches, or golden palaces full of trinkets like the Vatican. But they can be discussed elsewhere. This thread is about the pope.

So, only posts about the pope and posts you agree with then.

Irish Kings

batgoat wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a practising Catholic but she's still willing to stand up the church and how they behave.

McAleese also want's the Church and 1 billion Catholics worldwide to conform to her personally approved political beliefs without any dissent . . . pretty delusional.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

batgoat wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a practising Catholic but she's still willing to stand up the church and how they behave.

This is pretty much my parents’ stance too.

Guy:Incognito

Patww79 wrote: »

So, only posts about the pope and posts you agree with then.

Clearly not seeing as your e free to deflect from issues to your hearts content.

Sleeper12

shakeitoff wrote:

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

But why have religion in school at all? Not everyone wants their children taught about shame, sin or even god in some cases. My children were NOT born with sin nor was any child and I wouldn't want anyone shoving that nonsense down their throat. School should be fact based. Religious education should be in your church in Sunday school or by the parents.

shenanagans

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This is pretty much my parents’ stance too.

Didn't hear her running down the church when she was in the Aras.

Allinall

Test

Sleeper12

Allinall wrote:

Test

I thought they locked the thread 20 minutes ago

Sycamore Tree

shenanagans wrote: »

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

This is pretty much my parents’ stance too.

Didn't hear her running down the church when she was in the Aras.

I am absolutely delighted McAleese is showing a mirror to Rome. I wish more Irish politicians had her courage. Most TDs are too afraid of losing votes to say what needs to be said. The people criticising her are cowards attacking the messenger - what has she said that is wrong? She is an amazing woman and I hope she keeps up the good fight. Those relics in the Vatican deserve it.

Patser

So just for context....

130,000 ish for the Pope with free tickets.....

Garth Brooks sold 400,000 tickets at €80 a pop....

Those with friends in low places much more popular than direct line to God?

Bubbaclaus

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

I remember being in tears as a 7 year old when being told about all the babies trapped in limbo. This would have been in around 1997.

Catholics believed in that until at least 2007 when they decided to change their minds so presumably it continued to be taught until then.

Royal Legend

And.................. the bigots are back :rolleyes:

ToddyDoody

I think we've entered an era where everyone is perpetually angry at daddy. (in the guise of the government, the Pope, RTE etc etc)

Bubbaclaus

Royal Legend wrote: »

And.................. the bigots are back :rolleyes:

Nope, they headed back to the Vatican a couple of hours ago.

Sycamore Tree

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

I remember being in tears as a 7 year old when being told about all the babies trapped in limbo. This would have been in around 1997.

Catholics believed in that until at least 2007 when they decided to change their minds so presumably it continued to be taught until then.

Yes and those poor children that had the audacity to die before baptism are buried in obscure graveyards in the corner of fields all over Ireland, most with no headstones, perhaps just a few stones to mark the spot. Hidden out of some warped shame.

shenanagans

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am absolutely delighted McAleese is showing a mirror to Rome. I wish more Irish politicians had her courage. Most TDs are too afraid of losing votes to say what needs to be said. The people criticising her are cowards attacking the messenger - what has she said that is wrong? She is an amazing woman and I hope she keeps up the good fight. Those relics in the Vatican deserve it.[/quo

She's a smart lady with plenty to say. But why couldn't she have challenged the church when she was president?? Easy to do it now as she has nothing to lose. She's all about LGBT rights now which is great but she had nothing to say about their rights when she was in office.

Billy86

shakeitoff wrote: »

I hate people who are just so wilfully ignorant. Christian teachings in schools now for the last 20 years have been nothing more than positive, life affirming feel good stories that are surely beneficial in a child's development. We'd be better off emphasising some of these values in a 21st century context than reinventing the wheel.

My classes in R.E in school were within the last 20 years, and basically comprised of being told why everyone needs to be Christian if they don't want to go to hell, and giving out lines or detention for anyone who did not treat the Bible as exact, factual history (even the likes of the burning bush). If memory serves me correctly, we had one single class out of two full years that was supposed to cover all non-Christian religions.

Now not every religion teacher would be like that, but I had friends in other schools who had similar and it's something we could do with less of without. In an age of disinformation and competing narratives, I would happily scrap R.E. for critical thinking classes, or for life skills with the ever-increasing changing nature of the world around us.

Also, hatred of others is not exactly becoming of positive Christian teachings, I would imagine.

Strazdas

Patser wrote: »

So just for context....

130,000 ish for the Pope with free tickets.....

Garth Brooks sold 400,000 tickets at €80 a pop....

Those with friends in low places much more popular than direct line to God?

Might have been plenty of people who went to the first and intended going to the second. What makes you think it's an 'either / or' ?

shenanagans

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

I remember being in tears as a 7 year old when being told about all the babies trapped in limbo. This would have been in around 1997.

Catholics believed in that until at least 2007 when they decided to change their minds so presumably it continued to be taught until then.

Anyone with faith won't believe in that non sense. Many of the church's views are outdated and cause unnecessary pain.

Patser

Strazdas wrote: »

Might have been plenty of people who went to the first and intended going to the second. What makes you think it's an 'either / or' ?

Even if it was everyone going to 2 Brooks concerts, that's 200,000. So Pope + 50%. And I doubt every Brooks ticket sold was a repeat.

Also during all the Brooks fiasco there was no mention of fee public transport, and shut downs of huge areas of Dublin.

Royal Legend

If the 130-300k attendance is correct, apart from the nope to the pope crowd, it looks more likely that the sneaky dubs used the tickets for free transport around the capital for the day

Discodog

The Vatican estimated that 300,000 people flocked to Phoenix Park for the Mass to close the World Meeting of Families, a global Catholic gathering that is held every three years. Other crowd estimates were lower.

road_high

billyhead wrote: »

So much bitterness on this thread against the church
It was a very small minority of priests whom abused their position. You would swear they were all at it the way some clowns here go on.

See this is where hardcore Catholics and the Church itself miss the mark completely...it's not just the fact that the minority abused/covered it up.
It's the general attitude and uncompromising stance on so called moral issues to the determinant of many citizens. It's a rich tapestry of grievances really.

BliainanAir

Sycamore Tree wrote: »

I am absolutely delighted McAleese is showing a mirror to Rome. I wish more Irish politicians had her courage. Most TDs are too afraid of losing votes to say what needs to be said. The people criticising her are cowards attacking the messenger - what has she said that is wrong? She is an amazing woman and I hope she keeps up the good fight. Those relics in the Vatican deserve it.

Mary McAleese is a complete hypocrite. She loves the lime light and lacks the dignity of her predecessor Mary Robinson.

She had no interest in LGBT issues when she was President. She played the Catholic card. The only thing that made her so vocal was when her own son was gay. Then it became an issue because it came to her family. She was fine with Catholic doctrine until it didn't suit her new reality and having the ego she does the Catholic Church was to change to suit her.

Mary Robinson has been through to her cause since bringing contraceptives over the border in the 1970s. David Norris fought for gay rights when it wasn't trendy to do so, along with many others, recently documented on an excellent documentary on rte on the 25th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality.

Mary McAleese..spare us. The woman loves the sound of her voice. Knows she has popular backing. A populist mouth piece who abuses her status as an ex president. I still think of that cringeworthy contrived moment when she went WOW!! after Queen Elizabeth said her cupla focail. Put the camera on me McAleese.

shenanagans

BliainanAir wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a complete hypocrite. She loves the lime light and lacks the dignity of her predecessor Mary Robinson.

She had no interest in LGBT issues when she was President. She played the Catholic card. The only thing that made her so vocal was when her own son was gay. Then it became an issue because it came to her family. She was fine with Catholic doctrine until it didn't suit her new reality and having the ego she does the Catholic Church was to change to suit her.

Mary Robinson has been through to her cause since bringing contraceptives over the border in the 1970s. David Norris fought for gay rights when it wasn't trendy to do so, along with many others, recently documented on an excellent documentary on rte on the 25th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality.

Mary McAleese..spare us. The woman loves the sound of her voice. Knows she has popular backing. A populist mouth piece who abuses her status as an ex president. I still think of that cringeworthy contrived moment when she went WOW!! after Queen Elizabeth said her cupla focail. Put the camera on me McAleese.

Well said. I second that.

hotmail.com

It was the same people that went to the RDS that went to see him on the streets yesterday, to Croke Park last night and the Phoenix Park today. The same people!

Bredabe

billyhead wrote: »

So much bitterness on this thread against the church
It was a very small minority of priests whom abused their position. You would swear they were all at it the way some clowns here go on.

To the children raped repeatedly in their school, who told the priests, nuns. doctors, parents and anyone who would listen, it wasn't a minority, no one, not a single person believed them, because of the hold based on fear the church had on everyone.

That's bullying and as far as Im concerned the only ppl Innocent are the victims and those who were too uneducated in such matters to realise such assaults did exist.

0127647

Its tiring to listen to liberal media constantly calling the church having to apologise for every past sin when the state itself, citizens/families and even media of the time played just as big if not bigger roles.

It should never be forgotten that nigh on every clergy person who committed abuse was also an Irish man/woman who was a product of the society (not only the church) at the time.

Celibacy is a stone age ideal in the church. The church simply has to move towards greater inclusion of women priests and g*ys and the introduction of allowing priests to marry.

uptherebels

0127647 wrote: »

Its tiring to listen to liberal media constantly calling the church having to apologise for every past sin when the state itself, citizens/families and even media of the time played just as big if not bigger roles.

It should never be forgotten that nigh on every clergy person who committed abuse was also an Irish man/woman who was a product of the society (not only the church) at the time.

Celibacy is a stone age ideal in the church. The church simply has to move towards greater inclusion of women priests and g*ys and the introduction of allowing priests to marry.

And society in Ireland at that time was largely controlled by.....

iguana

shenanagans wrote: »

She's a smart lady with plenty to say. But why couldn't she have challenged the church when she was president?? Easy to do it now as she has nothing to lose. She's all about LGBT rights now which is great but she had nothing to say about their rights when she was in office.

Her little brother recently came out about the sadistic abuse he suffered at the hands of church while in school. Her anger has been pouring out since then. I guess that it didn't mean as much to her before but now that it's something that she realises has hurt her family it's become real and personal.

ArmaniJeanss

BliainanAir wrote: »

Mary McAleese is a complete hypocrite. She loves the lime light and lacks the dignity of her predecessor Mary Robinson.

She had no interest in LGBT issues when she was President. She played the Catholic card. The only thing that made her so vocal was when her own son was gay. Then it became an issue because it came to her family. She was fine with Catholic doctrine until it didn't suit her new reality and having the ego she does the Catholic Church was to change to suit her.

Mary Robinson has been through to her cause since bringing contraceptives over the border in the 1970s. David Norris fought for gay rights when it wasn't trendy to do so, along with many others, recently documented on an excellent documentary on rte on the 25th anniversary of the decriminalisation of homosexuality.

Mary McAleese..spare us. The woman loves the sound of her voice. Knows she has popular backing. A populist mouth piece who abuses her status as an ex president. I still think of that cringeworthy contrived moment when she went WOW!! after Queen Elizabeth said her cupla focail. Put the camera on me McAleese.

2005 - A Catholic advocacy group in the USA tries to stop President Mc Aleese visiting a Catholic University because "her advocacy for homosexual rights and women priests".

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/us-group-opposes-president-s-visit-1.441291

0127647

uptherebels wrote: »

And society in Ireland at that time was largely controlled by.....

Itself and its government.
Individual citizens are also responsible for their own actions.