Tiered Football Championship Needed

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Fann Linn wrote: »

Give us a clue:5, 10, 15, 20 years.

We'll see.

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Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Not necessarily, the better teams will move to a higher level where they will play the bigger teams on a regular basis instead of the one off hammerings they can olok forward to presently.



its also part of club championships. Anyway with a tiered cship i would be in favour of scrapping the league or reducing the number of games in it

You can't ignore the hurling championship. This was tried and it has failed! We'll see the results when the Joe McDonagh teams play against the top tier.

So you want to scrap the league and boot teams out of the championship? It's a non runner.

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The Lost Sheep wrote: »

This isnt a punishement. Tiers work in virtually every sport going. Make counties stronger by funding them from where exactly? Where do you find all this extra money that will magically turn counties into all ireland challengers. If it was that easy then .....

Take it off the counties who already have huge resources. Dublin for example.

I've already shown that there's a template, Dublin are competitive at the top level. They've won a National league and a Leinster championship. Funding works, a tiered championship doesn't. Hurling proves it.

cms88

This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

Coillte_Bhoy

cms88 wrote: »

This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

Read the op. We are talking about a tiered cship not an open draw chsip league type system.

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cms88 wrote: »

This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

How many Joe McDonagh games have you seen on The Sunday Game?

cms88

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Read the op. We are talking about a tiered cship not an open draw chsip league type system.

I wrote it

cms88

DONTMATTER wrote: »

How many Joe McDonagh games have you seen on The Sunday Game?

None what's your point? The "weaker" counties have never got coverage. Why are people only worried about it now?

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cms88 wrote: »

None what's your point? The "weaker" counties have never got coverage. Why are people only worried about it now?

Because it's showing that this is all a big lie. The advocates for this are all saying it would be a well promoted competition. We all know that's not true. These teams will be ignored just like the Joe McDonagh cup teams.

And you're forgetting that teams like Fermanagh and Laois are likely to be thrown into this. They were both on TV in provincial finals this weekend. It's not just Wicklow and Leitrim who are getting the boot, it's a long list of teams.

Laois_Man

cms88 wrote: »

This argument that a second tier wouldn't get coverage is totally bs. When's the last time Waterford, Letriem, Wicklow etc had a game on TV? Why would it be an issue all of a sudden?

Also the Champions league draw is the most stupid of them all. Why will it make a difference? Will Wicklow suddenly be in an All Ireland final because of it? The reality is that we'll see even bigger defeats than we're seeing at the moment. I get the feeling some person think if Kerry Dublin etc drew Waterford etc they'd take it easy on them or something like that when in reality they'd hammer them out the gate without giving it a second thought.

There’s more to “coverage” than live TV.....which by the way counties like Laois, Longford, Tipperary, Fermanagh, Roscommon etc have had in the last couple of weeks alone. On the night of the Champions League Final, the Laois v Westmeath Leinster quarter final was the second biggest sports story on internet, tv and radio. When we played hurling matches in Joe McDonagh, I literally struggled to find anything. Our Leinster semi final received extensive hype, mostly of the “Carlow Rising” sort. But there’s no “Carlow Rising” hashtag hype about their hurling team who are actually in the Joe McDonagh final! Go figure!

homerjay2005

the problem is the likes of Dublin, Mayo and kerry are pulling so far ahead of the others, it then inbalances the entire championship.

reality it, with a few exceptions (monaghan v waterford for example) on any given day, almost all of the rest can compete against each other in a one off championship game.

maybe we can introduce a round robin (like the hurling) for the perceived weaker teams, to give them 3 games in early May before the knock out kicks off then.

maybe the top team in each group goes into their province semi final, 2nd team goes into 1/4 final, 3rd and 4th team goes into qualifiers etc.

rebel girl 15

DONTMATTER, do not post in this thread again about the Dublin funding - there is already a thread about that

This thread is simply to discuss the merits of a tiered football championship - I, other moderators and other posters are sick of this question about Dublin being dragged into every thread. There is a thread for that, keep it there.

Coillte_Bhoy

cms88 wrote: »

I wrote it

Of course, sorry, i misinterpreted your post

cms88

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

Of course, sorry, i misinterpreted your post

Don't worry I won't hold it against you

cms88

So it seems the ''weaker'' counties have changed their minds and now want a tiered championship.

A good step, but to play devil's advocate what will happen if they change their mind again? Will it be kept or gotten rid of like the Tommy Murphy Cup?

OldMrBrennan83

cms88 wrote: »

So it seems the ''weaker'' counties have changed their minds and now want a tiered championship.

A good step, but to play devil's advocate what will happen if they change their mind again? Will it be kept or gotten rid of like the Tommy Murphy Cup?

Leave them in it and if they want don't want to compete then let them **** off. If they want to play in the upper tier then it's finally time to stop the 'weaker' poor mouthing and earn it.

cms88

Patww79 wrote: »

Leave them in it and if they want don't want to compete then let them **** off. If they want to play in the upper tier then it's finally time to stop the 'weaker' poor mouthing and earn it.

This is what I've thought about it. They had their chance with the Tommy Murphy Cup but refused to play in it.

I do agree that they should be given a second chance at it but that's it

Fr Tod Umptious

cms88 wrote: »

This is what I've thought about it. They had their chance with the Tommy Murphy Cup but refused to play in it.

I do agree that they should be given a second chance at it but that's it

The problem with the Tommy Murphy cup was that it was a consolation competition.

Get knocked out of the senior championship and them getting shipped down to this losers competition with noting much to play for only a title.

A proper Tommy Murphy cup should be a competition in its own right with a title and promotion or relegation at the end of it.

Stevecw

Some of the so called weaker counties seem to want it. Wicklow & Leitrim being the most vocal. The same Wicklow that after being gone from the All Ireland since June still found a way to drag their club championship out so long that their co champions ended up playing a co final replay and 1st round leinster game in 2 days!

They would be happy with a 2nd level tournament it seems as they accept mediocrity. The likes of Longford and more recently Carlow have aimed higher than that and have managed to defeat Div 1 & 2 teams in the championship. Longford beating Meath & Carlow beating Kildare this summer just showed what a nonsense the 2 tier thing is.

Why just because they might still be at Div 3 level should progressive teams like that be denied a qualifier game at home v a top team with a big crowd & maybe live on tv. For example Carlow v Monaghan last year a team still in Div 4 at the time v a Div 1 team, was live on Sky Sports and Carlow led with 10 mins to go.

With this new 2 tier, it would instead be a game away to Waterford or Wicklow on a Saturday afternoon probably with no coverage or media attention. How demoralizing would that be for a Carlow/Longford and other progressive counties.

cms88

Stevecw wrote: »

Some of the so called weaker counties seem to want it. Wicklow & Leitrim being the most vocal. The same Wicklow that after being gone from the All Ireland since June still found a way to drag their club championship out so long that their co champions ended up playing a co final replay and 1st round leinster game in 2 days!

They would be happy with a 2nd level tournament it seems as they accept mediocrity. The likes of Longford and more recently Carlow have aimed higher than that and have managed to defeat Div 1 & 2 teams in the championship. Longford beating Meath & Carlow beating Kildare this summer just showed what a nonsense the 2 tier thing is.

Why just because they might still be at Div 3 level should progressive teams like that be denied a qualifier game at home v a top team with a big crowd & maybe live on tv. For example Carlow v Monaghan last year a team still in Div 4 at the time v a Div 1 team, was live on Sky Sports and Carlow led with 10 mins to go.

With this new 2 tier, it would instead be a game away to Waterford or Wicklow on a Saturday afternoon probably with no coverage or media attention. How demoralizing would that be for a Carlow/Longford and other progressive counties.

Again people seem to be missing or just ignoring the fact that Carlow were well beaten by any decent team, bar Kildare. One off results like that shouldn't be the reason to forget that there's an imbalance.

This year seen bigger hammerings dished out than normal. Some to the teams who people are trying to make the argument that thing's should stay how they are.

morrga

How about a 2 tier league championship structure run from March to July with 16 teams in each competition where promotion and relegation exists.

Run the provincials during this as standalone competitions where by a tier 1 winner gets home advantage in a quarter final or a tier 2 winners gains automatic promotion to next years Sam McGuire.

Bottom team in each group plays a relegation final except where by a tier 2 teams wins a provincial championship. In that case both teams relegated.

2 groups of 8 teams in both tiers with 3 home and 3 away with a Super 8 weekend in Croke Park to remove the home away anomaly and create a super 8 for all 32 teams.

Effectively this creates a county season for the first half of the year and a club season for the second half of the year. It removes the need for November, December training thus providing proper off season rest. Pre season can begin early January with a 10 week lead into Paddys weekend where pre season competitions can still retain their merit.
This also allows colleges to complete their competitions as they currently stand in January February.

This would take so much suffocation of time, player welfare and create so much certainty to every single stakeholder involved.

I would love to hear what negatives people can point out with this proposal?