Adultery

steddyeddy

Just come back from a holiday in Greece followed by a quick break in Italy. This isn't meant to be a sweeping generalisation but it seems that affairs and adultery were far more common place in those countries and maybe more accepted. Again no offence meant and I could be wrong but some cultures seem to be more accepting of affairs than others and a blind eye is sometimes turned to a cheating partner. What cultures are the most tolerant of this and how does it compare to Irish culture?

Trigger Happy

steddyeddy wrote: »

What cultures are the most tolerant of this?

*Holding off on booking next years holiday while we get an answer to this one.

Wheety

Political affairs?

xzanti

How long of a Holiday did you have?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Foreign Affairs?

steddyeddy

Wheety wrote: »

Political affairs?

Ellison Freezing Teamster wrote: »

Foreign Affairs?

Please get your coats.....

mr_edge_to_you

Current affairs - they’re the worst.

The Backwards Man

As Jim Reeves would say, it's a sad affair.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

Signore Fancy Pants

This post has been deleted.

uck51js9zml2yt

Seems very laissez-faire to me

ConnyMcDavid

I love to people watch on holidays while sitting outside a cafe but never this much.

wexie

steddyeddy wrote: »

Just come back from a holiday in Greece followed by a quick break in Italy. This isn't meant to be a sweeping generalisation but it seems that affairs and adultery were far more common place in those countries and maybe more accepted. Again no offence meant and I could be wrong but some cultures seem to be more accepting of affairs than others and a blind eye is sometimes turned to a cheating partner. What cultures are the most tolerant of this and how does it compare to Irish culture?

here ya go :

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/03/infidelity-europe_n_4892732.html

no data for greece though

_Kaiser_

wexie wrote: »

here ya go :

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/03/03/infidelity-europe_n_4892732.html

no data for greece though

It's a bit like this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8DXE5Sx5m8

Wheety

steddyeddy wrote: »

Wheety wrote: »

Political affairs?

Ellison Freezing Teamster wrote: »

Foreign Affairs?

Please get your coats.....

Have we pulled? :eek:

_Dara_

What did you observe on holiday?

Courtn2

There’s a lot more adultery when the weather’s sultry

Definitely try Spain and Italy. Their idea of being faithful is very... flexible.

Avatar MIA

steddyeddy wrote: »

What cultures are the most tolerant of this and how does it compare to Irish culture?

Don't you just love threads that appear like an exam question :rolleyes:

I don't know how people have the time for one of those adultery things. I'm run off my feet with one as it is.

Or, as the wife memorably put it to me and we but walking out with each other 15 years ago:

Me (collecting her from the Celtic Tiger office around 11pm as usual): "Jesus, I hope you're not having an affair on me."
Her: "I've enough on my hands with one eejit never mind taking on another".

Best comeback ever.

TheValeyard

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't know how people have the time for one of those adultery things. I'm run off my feet with one as it is.

Or, as the wife memorably put it to me and we but walking out with each other 15 years ago:

Me (collecting her from the Celtic Tiger office around 11pm as usual): "Jesus, I hope you're not having an affair on me."
Her: "I've enough on my hands with one eejit never mind taking on another".

Best comeback ever.

Yeah, a partner and baby keep me busy all the time. Ive zero idea how people find the time or energy to have a mistress or gf or whatever.


These people should be running the country if they are able to multitask that well.

0lddog

steddyeddy wrote: »

Just come back from a holiday in Greece followed by a quick break in Italy. .....

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

.....These people should be running the country if they are able to multitask that well.

So you want the place to be run like Greece & Italy then ?
.
.
.
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Greece is strictly for olympic standard pervers.

Some of the best pervering in this country is to be found in Galway ( follow 'where are you right now' thread for further detail )

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know how people have the time for one of those adultery things. I'm run off my feet with one as it is.

Or, as the wife memorably put it to me and we but walking out with each other 15 years ago:

Me (collecting her from the Celtic Tiger office around 11pm as usual): "Jesus, I hope you're not having an affair on me."
Her: "I've enough on my hands with one eejit never mind taking on another".

Best comeback ever.

I have a female friend in China, who has three boyfriends while she's married. She also runs a small company, while her husband works 12 hour shifts and travels a lot. I've no idea how he could miss her behavior, but people blind themselves all the time to the obvious. God knows, I didn't notice being cheated on by my first girlfriend (we lived together), and only found out after the relationship had ended.

The people who cheat in relationships seem to form an addiction to it, and will usually find a way. I've noticed it happens most often with women whose husband is away a lot, or wives who don't have a job but whose kids have grown up enough not to require her attention much. Don't really have many male friends so I can't really say how they do it.

Avatar MIA

Deleted User wrote: »

I have a female friend in China, who has three boyfriends while she's married. She also runs a small company, while her husband works 12 hour shifts and travels a lot. I've no idea how he could miss her behavior, but people blind themselves all the time to the obvious. God knows, I didn't notice being cheated on by my first girlfriend (we lived together), and only found out after the relationship had ended.

The people who cheat in relationships seem to form an addiction to it, and will usually find a way. I've noticed it happens most often with women whose husband is away a lot, or wives who don't have a job but whose kids have grown up enough not to require her attention much. Don't really have many male friends so I can't really say how they do it.

China's one child policy has messed up the country. OCP meant many girls were aborted, which means... surprise, surprise... there's a sizeable male/female imbalance. So, One wife many boyfriends may make some sort of sense in China.

wakka12

Im surprised by that poll that shows over half of europeans cheat on their partner and the majority don't regret it. Based off people I know, in my age group 18-25, I would have guessed about 20% of people cheat on their partner at some stage and maybe about 10-15% cheated regularly, with different people

Avatar MIA

Avatar MIA wrote: »

China's one child policy has messed up the country. OCP meant many girls were aborted, which means... surprise, surprise... there's a sizeable male/female imbalance. So, One wife many boyfriends may make some sort of sense in China.

Not really. Oh, I agree with your logic, but it's fairly common in other Asian countries too. Traditionally, the idea of the husband having a mistress or second wife was accepted as something that happened... but with incomes rising and the emergence of female CEOs or business owners, you're getting a lot more women willing to cheat. You'll see the same in Japan, Korea, etc. No child control policies in those countries but the changing of values within the last 20-30 years have seriously shaken the traditional behavior [under the surface].

It's still generally not acceptable behavior by women, and men still get a cultural free pass for doing it, but it's one of those things everyone knows is happening. Too many arranged marriages, or people marrying too young before really knowing their partners. You have to bear in mind that in most Asian countries being single after 26 is still considered, by most, to be an indication that there's something 'wrong' with the woman. There's a lot of social pressure to get married and have children, with a lot of people rushing into marriage and then finding a year or two later, that they have few real feelings for their partner. It's changing for some people, but most continue to follow the traditional views. While Divorce is an option (and many people are doing so), there's still a huge stigma against doing so. A woman who is divorced will have an extremely difficult time finding a new husband unless she has her own wealth.

So cheating is becoming more common to avoid those issues.

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

Im surprised by that poll that shows over half of europeans cheat on their partner and the majority don't regret it. Based off people I know, in my age group 18-25, I would have guessed about 20% of people cheat on their partner at some stage and maybe about 10-15% cheated regularly, with different people

Well, I'd say Ireland is kind of in a bubble. Its a strange case compared to the rest of Europe with a lot of more traditional values still holding strong in the 30-50 age brackets. From the people I still know well in Ireland, your percentages would be spot on, although my age group is more of the 30-45. My feeling about Ireland was that many people will cheat during dating, but once marriage happens, cheating seriously declines.

Whereas the groups i know well from the rest of Europe, far more of them have cheated in relationships before and during marriage. Ireland doesn't really have the cultural acceptance of cheating that other countries like France, or Italy have. And based on my own experiences of dating in Europe and friends comments, Italy is the most "practical" about cheating. I know 8-13 couples in Italy, and most of them have admitted to cheating or I've seen them do it firsthand.

Witchie

Deleted User wrote: »

Avatar MIA wrote: »

China's one child policy has messed up the country. OCP meant many girls were aborted, which means... surprise, surprise... there's a sizeable male/female imbalance. So, One wife many boyfriends may make some sort of sense in China.

Not really. Oh, I agree with your logic, but it's fairly common in other Asian countries too. Traditionally, the idea of the husband having a mistress or second wife was accepted as something that happened... but with incomes rising and the emergence of female CEOs or business owners, you're getting a lot more women willing to cheat. You'll see the same in Japan, Korea, etc. No child control policies in those countries but the changing of values within the last 20-30 years have seriously shaken the traditional behavior [under the surface].

It's still generally not acceptable behavior by women, and men still get a cultural free pass for doing it, but it's one of those things everyone knows is happening. Too many arranged marriages, or people marrying too young before really knowing their partners. You have to bear in mind that in most Asian countries being single after 26 is still considered, by most, to be an indication that there's something 'wrong' with the woman. There's a lot of social pressure to get married and have children, with a lot of people rushing into marriage and then finding a year or two later, that they have few real feelings for their partner. It's changing for some people, but most continue to follow the traditional views. While Divorce is an option (and many people are doing so), there's still a huge stigma against doing so. A woman who is divorced will have an extremely difficult time finding a new husband unless she has her own wealth.

So cheating is becoming more common to avoid those issues.

I totally agree with this. After living in India for a few months and now in Malaysia, there seems to be an almost tacit understanding that it is acceptable, especially for men, to be married and have girlfriends, flings or another wife. 

In Malaysia, some of the tribes, particularly in Borneo, are open to having more than one wife so cheating is not really an issue. I also know of some women here who have open relationships with their husbands and are allowed to mess around so it is not all one way but it is slightly less prevalent that women have the affairs as they seem to be more devoted to the home and kids and don't have the same time.

Witchie

Witchie wrote: »

I totally agree with this. After living in India for a few months and now in Malaysia, there seems to be an almost tacit understanding that it is acceptable, especially for men, to be married and have girlfriends, flings or another wife. 

In Malaysia, some of the tribes, particularly in Borneo, are open to having more than one wife so cheating is not really an issue. I also know of some women here who have open relationships with their husbands and are allowed to mess around so it is not all one way but it is slightly less prevalent that women have the affairs as they seem to be more devoted to the home and kids and don't have the same time.

China made having multiple wives illegal around the 50s but it remained part of their culture well after that. In modern times, marriage itself is two people, but the idea of a second wife is common with those with the money to do so. Quite often it is the wife who will find and arrange the second wife, who will be financially supported. This woman will attend work events, have sexual relations etc, but very rarely have children with the male. I've known a few Chinese women to have second husbands. In these cases, it's an agreement between the husband and wife, so probably wouldn't really be termed cheating.

I had a couple I knew very well explain it to me. They said that Chinese women when younger (20s-30s) had a high sexual interest, but many Chinese women have menopause in their 30s, and have little interest in sex after they have children. So, rather than have sex they're not interested in having, they hire someone else to do it for them. They remain the wife in public, and still behave the wife in all other ways, but they gain the freedom to avoid something they have no interest in doing. Culturally, Chinese men are expected to have strong sexual desires, and those who don't 'display' these traits often find their businesses or promotional advancement suffering. So, there is some practical angles to all of this.

I was thinking about my own experiences in Asia. I lived in China for almost 8 years, with some time in both S.Korea and Japan. During those 8 years, I had intimate relationships with 17 women who I knew to be married (I'm sure there were others who didn't tell me, but I'm talking about relationships lasting longer than a month). In each case, I found out about their marriage after we'd been dating for over a month. According to them, in each case, their affairs were permitted, and their husbands had their own mistresses or indulged in the prostitution industry (which mistresses or second wives are not considered part of). In some cases, I met the husbands, and they knew I was sleeping with their wives.

Compared with Ireland, It really is a bizarre culture. In Korea, and Japan, there wasn't the formal agreements for affairs, and yet, I did have relationships with women who were married. I never sought out married women, as I find these relationships overly complicated, but it's so common, that it's sometimes very difficult to avoid.

In all cases, this happened while I was single. I've never cheated while in a GF/BF relationship by consent or otherwise, although I have had a number of women asking about open relationships. Tried it once and it wasn't something I enjoyed.

Edit: Just to note. While living in China, I lived in a city of 9 million people. I suspect people who have lived most of their lives in Ireland, don't really understand what dating is like in a major city. Even then, Xi'an where I lived in China, was considered a second level city. Shanghai or Beijing are larger again. I also lived in Tokyo which has a massive population and a very active dating environment. It really is very different from Ireland, including Dublin.

PandaPoo

We saw a guy we know with another woman last week. She was a really gorgeous blonde, he got in the car and they kissed.

He's been married for 10 years and has 3 kids. The 3rd is only a few months old.

His wife was only telling me about their holidays this summer and how excited she was. I don't know her well enough to tell her, so it's just sit back and wait for it to come out...if it does.

Graces7

PandaPoo wrote: »

We saw a guy we know with another woman last week. She was a really gorgeous blonde, he got in the car and they kissed.

He's been married for 10 years and has 3 kids. The 3rd is only a few months old.

His wife was only telling me about their holidays this summer and how excited she was. I don't know her well enough to tell her, so it's just sit back and wait for it to come out...if it does.

appalling behaviour. Truly depraved.

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

In each case, I found out about their marriage after we'd been dating for over a month. According to them, in each case, their affairs were permitted, and their husbands had their own mistresses or indulged in the prostitution industry (which mistresses or second wives are not considered part of). In some cases, I met the husbands, and they knew I was sleeping with their wives.

I can't see that being a particularly civil affair if it were to happen in say...I dunno...Mullingar

wexie

wexie wrote: »

I can't see that being a particularly civil affair if it were to happen in say...I dunno...Mullingar

I wouldn't see it as a particularly civil affair if it followed most cheating that happens in the west... but then, I wasn't talking about Ireland... Still, there is a population of swingers and similar in Ireland already.

wakka12

PandaPoo wrote: »

We saw a guy we know with another woman last week. She was a really gorgeous blonde, he got in the car and they kissed.

He's been married for 10 years and has 3 kids. The 3rd is only a few months old.

His wife was only telling me about their holidays this summer and how excited she was. I don't know her well enough to tell her, so it's just sit back and wait for it to come out...if it does.

Thats depressing. I nearly hope for her sake she doesnt find out, because its so messy with all the young children , they'll stay together to try and make it work for the kids and it'll just be a toxic horrible passive aggressive house to grow up in

Whatever about other people cheating, I just can't understand cheating when you have young kids at home, because of the above situation happening, its just so selfish

Avatar MIA

Graces7 wrote: »

appalling behaviour. Truly depraved.

Not gentlemanly behaviour, but not depraved, IMHO.

wakka12

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Not gentlemanly behaviour, but not depraved, IMHO.

I think its morally corrupt,as I said before whatever about cheating normally on girlfriend/wife thats just hurtful, rude dishonest etc, but its so bad if your cheating on your wife who you have kids with, to put your needs ahead of young children at home who are reliant on you

wakka12

wakka12 wrote: »

I think its morally corrupt,as I said before whatever about cheating normally on girlfriend/wife thats just hurtful, rude dishonest etc, but its so bad if your cheating on your wife who you have kids with, to put your needs ahead of young children at home who are reliant on you

To be fair, you have no idea of the actual state of their relationship, or what agreements have been made between them.

I know an Irish couple married for twenty years, have two beautiful talented children, and are dedicated swingers. They married because their parents wanted them to, but have little feeling towards each other. To everyone except very close friends, they appear to be perfect. The truth is very different from the image they present to the world.

It's just too easy to look from the outside and make assumptions based on nothing more solid than air.

Avatar MIA

wakka12 wrote: »

I think its morally corrupt...

Stealing a bar of cadbury's chocolate from a corner shop is morally corrupt.

yourdeadwright

These people should be on TV and let us know how they fit the time into there day,
With work, kids, cooking ,cleaning ,washing , I barley get 5 minutes of alone time, If I went missing for a few hours a few nights a week the missus would be all over me and also when would I get my alone time then ? 
Iv a married friend and he says if ever he see's a sexy lady he thinks some lad somewhere is bored of banging her,and it makes them instantly less attractive to him ,
He reckons with this line of thinking he'll never bother cheating

Samuel T. Cogley

Most cultures that don't have the repressed, immature, parochial attitude to sex that we seem to have.

Ronaldinho

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Most cultures that don't have the repressed, immature, parochial attitude to sex that we seem to have.

Can you explain how we have a repressed and parochial attitude to sex? I don't get it.

Ronaldinho

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Can you explain how we have a repressed and parochial attitude to sex? I don't get it.

I do. It might be changing for the last last two generations (even for me I could see it starting to diminish) but this country provided a hell of amount of guilt towards having sex and enjoying yourself even within the accepted methods. Outside those accepted methods? Ugh.

Einstrahlung50

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Can you explain how we have a repressed and parochial attitude to sex? I don't get it.

If people could get past their egos they'd realise open relationships are salutory, unlike monogomous relationships which slowly kill people's souls and vibrancy.

steddyeddy

I should have added my experiences before seeking answers really. I was visiting the Greek island of Kefalonia a few months back with the girlfriend. She has family there and I really got to know some of her friends. During my time there her uncle got drunk and told me that no married man has never had an affair. He said that the women didn't cheat as much and turned a blind eye to it.

We later met a barman at a local beach bar. He was engaged to be married and repeatedly kissing 20 year old girls at the resort.

An extreme case involved a married 40 year old business man sleeping with a 20 year old girl. He was found out and after a while his wife forgave him. He then bought a house next door to his and his wife. They're all friends now. I may not have explained it right but there seemed to be a culture of cheating (mainly the husbands) and the wives turning a blind eye and then forgiving. The men seemed to have a double standard and went ape when the wives cheated.

wakka12

steddyeddy wrote: »

I should have added my experiences before seeking answers really. I was visiting the Greek island of Kefalonia a few months back with the girlfriend. She has family there and I really got to know some of her friends. During my time there her uncle got drunk and told me that no married man has never had an affair. He said that the women didn't cheat as much and turned a blind eye to it.

We later met a barman at a local beach bar. He was engaged to be married and repeatedly kissing 20 year old girls at the resort.

An extreme case involved a married 40 year old business man sleeping with a 20 year old girl. He was found out and after a while his wife forgave him. He then bought a house next door to his and his wife. They're all friends now. I may not have explained it right but there seemed to be a culture of cheating (mainly the husbands) and the wives turning a blind eye and then forgiving. The men seemed to have a double standard and went ape when the wives cheated.

Thats very irritating but unsurprising also

steddyeddy

wakka12 wrote: »

Thats very irritating but unsurprising also

Yes but more frustrating to me was the fact the wives seemed to agree. The men had these regressive attitudes but more often then not the women forgave them and welcomed them back!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

An extreme case involved a married 40 year old business man sleeping with a 20 year old girl. He was found out and after a while his wife forgave him. He then bought a house next door to his and his wife. They're all friends now. I may not have explained it right but there seemed to be a culture of cheating (mainly the husbands) and the wives turning a blind eye and then forgiving. The men seemed to have a double standard and went ape when the wives cheated.

In my experience, women don't forget about their man cheating.. forgive maybe (although words are cheap), but the trust is essentially gone. I'd be surprised if these wives haven't had their own revenge affairs unless they're not particularly interested in sex.

The double standard exists in most 'traditional' cultures, but then there plenty of other double standards that favor women.

steddyeddy

Deleted User wrote: »

In my experience, women don't forget about their man cheating.. forgive maybe (although words are cheap), but the trust is essentially gone. I'd be surprised if these wives haven't had their own revenge affairs unless they're not particularly interested in sex.

The double standard exists in most 'traditional' cultures, but then there plenty of other double standards that favor women.

Ah yea and as I said I also blame the girlfriends for turning a blond eye to it and accepting it. They're being taken for idiots.

ChikiChiki

How can anyone get over cheating in a relationship? Once that trust is broken there is no comeback.

I initially forgave an ex-partner and we did some relationship counselling but for a year it absolutley wrecked my head and changed me as a person so called it quits. I could never forget. I think there is always a high chance cheaters will cheat again if they can get away with it. People who cheat are selfish assholes and you are only fooling yourself if you think the relationship can get back to where it once was. I pity the people who feel they need to keep up the pretence of being in a happy relationship after being cheated on because they share assets or have kids.

If you have been upfront from the start with your partner that you dont believe in monogamy then its not cheating.

Crea

I live in a fairly rural area and know of 6 husbands who have cheated who were caught. All had very young kids and felt they weren't getting enough attention at home. Wives run off their feet with smallies at home and husbands out banging some young one cause he's not getting enough attention- pricks!
Only 2 of the marriages broke down - 1 because of drinking and 1 because the man wanted out.