9 seater camper (and converting from a 17 seater)

cormie

Hey folks,
I posted this on the motors forum, but would be great to get more advice here too. I've been thinking to get a 9 seater for leisure use/road trips etc. Was thinking a classic Landrover but was then thinking, why not get a 17 seat jumbo transit, and remove 8 of the seats in the back to leave driver +2 up front, and 6 in the back so I'd have a LOT more space to take bikes and the likes and to have comfortable standing room etc and possibly down the line look at converting to some sort of 9 seat camper

I'd like to keep it to 9 seats so it can be driven on a regular B license. I also saw these folding jump seats and if I could get 2 x 3 seater ones, or 3 x 2 seater if they only come in max 2 seat, that would be great too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqxHj12MHk4

I just have a few questions:

I was told that if a camper has bench seats and is reg'd before a certain year, they can be used without belts etc? I wouldn't want to drive anyone without them being belted in, but just out of curiosity?

Is it simply a case of going to the VRT centre and declaring that what would be down as say a 17 seater on its log book, is now a 9 seater?

Would I need to declare it as a camper or how does that work and what if it's not YET a camper?

Would I need to go BACK again to get the jump seats ok'd if I get them after it's re-reg'd as a 9 seater, or I should be fine just to take out seats and replace with these myself?

Will it just be a regular DOE test, checking the usual they do with a van and checking all 9 belts work properly etc, or would there be more to it?

Any other things to highlight or any advice at all would be appreciated

niloc1951

SEE HERE for info

cormie

Thanks a lot for that. So it's essential to have cooking facilities I don't do much cooking at all so this wouldn't have been a priority at all. Maybe a dehydrator and blender secured in would be ok :pac:


If anyone would have any info on how best to manage going through the stage of a non immediate conversion, fitting folding jump seats later etc too that'd be great!

wexie

Curiously enough some insurance companies have their own requirements.

Which for some is a sink....doesn't need to have a tap....don't need to be able to carry water....but has to have a sink

And it needs to be fixed, so no washing up basin either.

(unless they've since dropped that requirement but it caused me great frustration in the past)

autumnalcore

wexie wrote: »

Curiously enough some insurance companies have their own requirements.

One of dolmens requirements per proposal pack is:

Large Converted Buses/Trucks: Not acceptable; except for a converted mini bus with a seating capacity up 8 seats.

Not sure if they mean 8 seats after conversion or before.

wexie

autumnalcore wrote: »

One of dolmens requirements per proposal pack is:

Large Converted Buses/Trucks: Not acceptable; except for a converted mini bus with a seating capacity up 8 seats.

Not sure if they mean 8 seats after conversion or before.

Before surely?

Be really hard to get a bed and cooking facilities in with 8 seats in place still.
But considering I think it was Dolmen that insisted on having a sink (even told me they didn't care if it worked) I can't really insist on their demands being logical :P

autumnalcore

wexie wrote: »

autumnalcore wrote: »

One of dolmens requirements per proposal pack is:

Large Converted Buses/Trucks: Not acceptable; except for a converted mini bus with a seating capacity up 8 seats.

Not sure if they mean 8 seats after conversion or before.

Before surely?

Be really hard to get a bed and cooking facilities in with 8 seats in place still.

8 in an xlwb sprinter and youd still have tge same space left as most lwb vans.

I always thought the Dolmen stipulation was nonsense as you could first convert it to a crewcab or a van by boarding up tge windows.

Alkers

As far as I'm aware, you can remove the seats yourself and then contact revenue to have the logbook changed to 9 seats total with no inspection required. This would leave you with a vehicle which you would be legally able to drive on a b license (assuming max weight of 3,500kg). Your problem will then be insuring this vehicle - as mentioned the campervan insurance company's requirements are much more onerous than revenue's but the way around this is to get the conversion accepted by revenue and then get three refusals from insurance companies and then via the ombudsman one of them will be obliged to give you a quote. You would need to be fairly confident of meeting revenue's requirements or you may end up with an uninsurable vehicle.

Alkers

Just to add that you may still be able to insure it as a bus after you remove the seats and before you get the conversion done. I have seen large minibusses with a less number of seats and a larger boot at the rear but these were driven by someone with a bus licence. They may still have had more than 9 seats or been above 3,500kg.
Also, the cvrt for a camper is the same as for the base vehicle, they don't check anything in terms of the conversion.

irisheddie85

I could be wrong but I think the gvw of the transit that a 17 seater is built on is above 3500kg so can't be driven on a b license even if it has less than 17 seats

Alkers

irisheddie85 wrote:

I could be wrong but I think the gvw of the transit that a 17 seater is built on is above 3500kg so can't be driven on a b license even if it has less than 17 seats

You can get the vehicle down plated to a lesser gross weight.

cormie

Thanks a lot for all the replies here folks, some good info above.

I'm on the look out for a Transit Jumbo if possible. These will often be 17 seaters, but a transit Jumbo is available in both I think it's 4.3t GVW and then 3.5t too, the latter being fine to drive on a B license. So I think it's just a matter of finding a minibus that's the 3.5t version.

Would anyone know could I take out all the seats in the back and install them folding jump seats I linked to in the first video without any big issues?

Is the dolment requirement mentioned above about "8 seats" meaning driver+8, or driver+7 I wonder?

niloc1951

The thing with Camper Insurance, both Stewarts and Dolmen, is that it's designed and priced for leisure use only.
Any conversion which could be used for day to day social and domestic use doesn't really fit the bill and is very difficult to get it past the post as a genuine motorhome used primarily for holidaying in.

They do have a policy which includes social and domestic for those without a car insured, but it's about double the price.

cormie

Simona1986 wrote: »

You can get the vehicle down plated to a lesser gross weight.

How easy is this? A lot of the larger panel van minibuses I'm looking at are over 3.5t. Is it just a case of saying you want to limit it to 3.5t or you have to deal with modifications, engineers reports etc?

niloc1951 wrote: »

The thing with Camper Insurance, both Stewarts and Dolmen, is that it's designed and priced for leisure use only.
Any conversion which could be used for day to day social and domestic use doesn't really fit the bill and is very difficult to get it past the post as a genuine motorhome used primarily for holidaying in.

They do have a policy which includes social and domestic for those without a car insured, but it's about double the price.

What would the typical camper insurance cost? So then with social and domenstic this would be double?

Alkers

cormie wrote:

How easy is this? A lot of the larger panel van minibuses I'm looking at are over 3.5t. Is it just a case of saying you want to limit it to 3.5t or you have to deal with modifications, engineers reports etc?

I'm not sure of the cost etc but it's relatively straightforward, the RSA have an info doc

cormie

Hey folks, I've found a minibus I'm interested in, it's already been converted from a 17 seater and is down as a 9 seater on the UK log book... The seller drives his on a regular car license, but the log book mentions nothing about GVW, only unladen weight, which is 2.5t.

It's a 2.5 diesel van, twin rear axle VW crafter.

I just want to be sure it can be driven on a regular B license before I commit to buy it, but I'm not sure how to tell without knowing what the GVW is, or perhaps it can be limited to 3.5t when registering it in IRE so it'd be ok?



Also, does anyone know the rules about adding custom DIY jump seats in the back? I was thinking, try make 3 seat jump seats that can be put in 3 positions:

1) folded up flat against the side of the van with the back rest folding in towards seat @ 0 degrees
2) folded down to make regular passenger seats with the back rest @ 90 degrees
3) folded down with the back rest being able to be folded out to make a flat surface @ 180 degrees.


The idea would be to have 2 of these side by side and then folded down, they could make a sturdy flat surface for a bed Check badly drawn attached image for idea

Can I make these DIY and as long as they have secure seat belts they are ok?

wexie

cormie wrote: »

Also, does anyone know the rules about adding custom DIY jump seats in the back? I was thinking, try make 3 seat jump seats that can be put in 3 positions:

Can I make these DIY and as long as they have secure seat belts they are ok?

Hopefully someone will come along who knows the exact regulations etc. but I'm pretty sure that if they are intended to carry passengers you can't just DIY up some seats. Both insurance and DOE would not be happy with it at all. There's all kinds of certification involved in car seats (for good reason).

You'd be better of just buying some rock and roll seats. But they are not cheap.

http://www.smart-beds.com/

autumnalcore

GVW is on the vin plate. In uk anyone who got their B licence before 1997 is entitled to drive C1 and C1E also so could well be over weight.

cormie

Thanks for the replies. Them smart beds look way too bulky. If there was something like the double seat here at 54 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqxHj12MHk4

but in a triple seat, that folded back, and just put two side by side, it would do a great job for space saving, taking 9 passengers and then having a solid bed too like in my diagram above :pac:



Thanks for info on the VIN plate! I wonder once the weight is on the VIN plate, can the van be downgraded to be 3.5t GVW so okk to drive on a B license, or once it's more than 3.5t on the VIN, then there's no other option than to get the relevant license?

wexie

cormie wrote: »

Thanks for the replies. Them smart beds look way too bulky. If there was something like the double seat here at 54 seconds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqxHj12MHk4

Oh I'm sure there are many different ones in all shapes and sizes, that was just the first link I saw.

They're called rock&roll beds

cormie

Cool, thanks a lot! Might be a bit of a big ask to get a 3 in one system, but I think they'd do pretty well if somebody started manufacturing them!