Ireland Under 20 2019 6 Nations and World Championships

Buer

Could well have been in touch but nothing clear so has to give that try. Massive moment. England look very passive in defence in the past 5 minutes, oddly.

Squidgy Black

I think the fact the two lads had yellow boots may have saved us.

Buer

Dense. No need at all to tackle him in the air and we give England an opportunity to get back into it immediately.

blackcard

AdamD wrote: »

What a dirty team

I thought the 2 yellow cards were marginal enough, poor tackle technique. The red card was pure stupidity

Cosmo Kramer

Wasn't impressed with Healy in the grand slam game but he's done very well since he's came on today.

Diabhal Beag

That French lad ye all slated saving their hole too

Great play from 9 to dictate that scrum, played the ref to delay the put in and England lost their push.

Some really classy players here. Great crop.

Squidgy Black

Healy's been great since he came on.

Couldn't break them down physically at all, had to stay accurate until they made a mistake and eventually delivered, brilliant performance.

Cosmo Kramer

Some second half, played a lot of it against 14 but still, impressive stuff.

Squidgy Black

Superb stuff. Considering most of us were terrified of what was going to happen after being utterly dominated in the first 10 minutes.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Healy's been great since he came on.

Yup, has looked extremely confident. Seems when he's good, he's very good. Ireland just buzzing with confidence now. England look completely broken.

swiwi_

Nice from Ireland. Very decent 2nd half. Replacement flyhalf looks a keeper good play to switch the ball into the other hand and score the try in the corner.

Buer

No idea why they've kept their scrum half on. Could be a great player but has had so many important errors today.

......aaaaaaaaaaaand it's sevens!

Squidgy Black

My god England are another level in open play.

blackcard

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Superb stuff. Considering most of us were terrified of what was going to happen after being utterly dominated in the first 10 minutes.

Definitely thought that they were going to get slaughtered after the first 10 minutes

Buer

Milne looks a different player who was being destroyed during the 6N.

blackcard

A lot of decisions went Ireland's way

Squidgy Black

blackcard wrote: »

A lot of decisions went Ireland's way

Arguably a lot of stupid decisions from England let Ireland back into the game.

shootermacg

Good game, England's ill discipline cost them.

Squidgy Black

Squidgy Black wrote: »

My god England are another level when they are reduced to a shot for nothing

fyp!

Clegg

It's a brilliant victory considering how many quality players missed the game through injury. This is a very well coached side.

Buer

blackcard wrote: »

A lot of decisions went Ireland's way

I don't know if there was too much to be argued with, though. The cards were all correct, I thought. I'm not sure who would have won if England kept 15 men on the field rather than playing almost half the entire match with a man down. I did feel Ireland were a little fortunate with the opening try. I have seen those denied as often as they are given.

I thought Ireland got lucky in terms of England making errors at critical times. Their lock spilling the ball going over the line (under pressure but nothing significant), a couple of intercepts with a run to the line where there was knock on advantage and called back etc.

But Ireland were exceptionally composed. They didn't get flustered. The front five were a complete match for their opponents physically which is rare. All 5 of them were excellent (as were the back row). We've grown accustomed to Ireland tiring in the closing stages and a massive England squad turning the screw but England looked jaded and mentally spent after the second McCann try.

Digifriendly

Is this the first time an Irish rugby side at any level has scored 40+ points against England? I can't think of any other occasion.

Buer

Digifriendly wrote:

Is this the first time an Irish rugby side at any level has scored 40+ points against England? I can't think of any other occasion.

Croker 2007.

sydthebeat

Digifriendly wrote: »

Is this the first time an Irish rugby side at any level has scored 40+ points against England? I can't think of any other occasion.

We put 43 points on them in that croke Park game in 2007

joseywhales

Australia any good this year?

The Lost Sheep

joseywhales wrote: »

Australia any good this year?

Beat NZ 24-0 in Oceania championship. first time to win that

Squidgy Black

joseywhales wrote: »

Australia any good this year?

Beat the baby all blacks a couple of weeks ago 24-0

Quintis

OldRio wrote: »

Deary me. This might get ugly. Early days yet but..........

Good call, very ugly for England

All_in_Flynn

Fantastic result. Wasn’t hopeful with the amount of talent missing but they found a way, again.

Casey’s pass is a thing of beauty. Looks a real talent.

What is it about Irish genetics that we develop so much later!? English looked so much bigger across the park. Probably stands to us in the long run however as we rely more on technique.

Cosmo Kramer

It's less about genetics and more about numbers. England have far more players to choose from so it follows that they have far more big lads. We have fewer options so are more willing to develop a smaller but more technically skillful player than they would be.

It works in our favour in the long run though as we tend to develop more skillful all round professional players than the English relative to our playing numbers. Their size advantage at underage level doesn't sustain itself in the pro game and a lot of their underage stars become journeymen pros. Meanwhile a lot of their more skillful players never get the chance to develop through the system and fall out of the game.

I think it's a large part of why England don't turn their advantage in terms of playing numbers into domination of the world game and why the likes of us and Wales are able to continually compete with them. There's a similar issue in South Africa as well, if a young forward there isn't a certain size, he will never be given the opportunity to play professional rugby. It's too easy for those countries to take the easy option and pick all the big lads.

That we can compete with that size disadvantage and still beat them at underage level makes results like today's even more impressive.

All_in_Flynn

Cosmo Kramer wrote: »

It's less about genetics and more about numbers. England have far more players to choose from so it follows that they have far more big lads. We have fewer options so are more willing to develop a smaller but more technically skillful player than they would be.

It works in our favour in the long run though as we tend to develop more skillful all round professional players than the English relative to our playing numbers. Their size advantage at underage level doesn't sustain itself in the pro game and a lot of their underage stars become journeymen pros. Meanwhile a lot of their more skillful players never get the chance to develop through the system and fall out of the game.

I think it's a large part of why England don't turn their advantage in terms of playing numbers into domination of the world game and why the likes of us and Wales are able to continually compete with them. There's a similar issue in South Africa as well, if a young forward there isn't a certain size, he will never be given the opportunity to play professional rugby. It's too easy for those countries to take the easy option and pick all the big lads.

That we can compete with that size disadvantage and still beat them at underage level makes results like today's even more impressive.

Numbers has something to do with it but there is definitely something genetically I think too.

Even at school level, they seem further ahead physically. Maybe I’m wrong as it’s just the eye test I’m going on

D14Rugby

It's not genetics. English players join professional academies at a far younger age than Irish players so get more professional S&c from a younger age. That's changing to an extent with the bigger rugby schools getting better S&c coaches and facilities but it's not all of them and they don't produce all our players.

molloyjh

Only saw the second half, but that was a good win. Really liked some of the smarts and skills on show at times. Small things like McCann staying on his feet in contact to get his first try to some of the bigger things like the poaching of the ball as it came out of the ruck. Thought Healy was very assured when he came on and gave us some really great exits with the boot. Our ability to go through the phases on their line was excellent too.

We did put ourselves under needless pressure at times and there were a few defensive lapses, but overall it was very positive. We won't compete with their size and physicality, but longer term we're better off because we're producing intelligent players. The physical gap will narrow, but if we can maintain our edge on the top few inches we'll be in a very good place in the years to come.

In terms of the cards, I'd agree with all of them. The 2 yellows were quite strict, but at this level that's exactly what I'd expect. The red was pure lunacy. Reminded me of the Moriarty tip on Luke McGrath when he was playing 20s. It could never have been anything other than a red.

salmocab

All_in_Flynn wrote: »

Numbers has something to do with it but there is definitely something genetically I think too.

Even at school level, they seem further ahead physically. Maybe I’m wrong as it’s just the eye test I’m going on

I remember whenever we played underage touring teams they were generally bigger than us but also generally not very good either. Clearly a small sample size and going off memories from 25 odd years ago. Not sure if they are bigger younger or big lads more likely to play rugby over there.

worldcupfever

review of u20 game:

1. Josh Wycherley - has a huge engine, got the better of his opponent in the scrum. 8/10
2. Dylan Tierney Martin - had a couple of huge turnovers, hit most of his lineouts and carried hard. 9/10
3. Tom Clarkson - continued his form from 6 nations, played 78 minutes and looked comfortable in scrum and active around the field too. 8/10
4. Charlie Ryan - sparked the team from a slow start with a blockdown of a kick, typically industrious, played the full game. 8/10
5. Ryan Baird - got through a mountain of work, with some big carries and hits in defence, stole at least 1 lineout. played 73 minutes. 8/10
6. Dave McCann - showed great strength for his two tries and moved to 8 when Allison went off, youngest player in squad didn't play like it. 8/10
7. John Hodnett - showed his breakdown skills early, slowed somewhat in 2nd half in that area, but continued to carry well. 8/10
8. Azur Allison - only lasted 24 minutes, looked athletic but rusty with one poor knock on. 6/10
9. Craig Casey - incredible pass, dodgy kicking performance. plays at an incredible pace, very un-Murrray like. 7/10
10. Jake Flannery - doesn't have much of a controlling kicking game, probably not his best game, would like to see him at 15 for next game. 7/10
11. Jonathan Wren - quiet game in attack but looked dangerous when he got the ball, good defensively. 7/10
12. Stewart Moore - started quietyl but grew into game well with smart try and good running lines. 8/10
13. Liam Turner - played the full game, starting at 13 and moving to 12. Had a few decent breaks and was solid in defence. 7/10
14. Angus Kernohan - move to 13 midway through 2nd half, was generally quiet. 6/10
15. Iwan Hughes - looked somewhat out of place at 15, will be lucky to start against Oz. 6/10
--
17. Michael Milne - came on at after 70 minutes, had a very active 10 minutes, causing a knock on, carrying strongly and doing well in the scrum.
18. Charlie Ward - came on after 78 minutes and was part of 1 big scrum.
19. John McKee - came on after 73 minutes, hit his lineouts and tackled well.
20. Ronan Watters - came on at 6 for an injured Allison after 24 minutes, had some good carries and work in defence. 7/10
21. Niall Murray - came on after 73 minutes, hard an excellent take from a kickoff when england were chasing the game.
26. Ben Healy - came on after 49 minutes, was excellent when he came on, with a huge boot and displayed strong decision making. Was a key player in the win. 8/10
27. Sean French - came on after 49 minutes, one hell of an attacking threat but defensively he leaves a lot to be desired, not sure he has the top level pace for a winger either. 7/10

arsebiscuits1

Only caught the second half.

Very happy with that performance. Very mature group this years crop seems to be. Littered with lads willing to step up.

Definitely had a few things go our way. I thought the ref was a little bit kind to us with knock on advantage once or twice and I don't know how the TMO didn't see Healys foot in touch for his dot down. Not to mention their second row knocking on over the line.

Deserved the win though. England weren't really playing smart rugby from what I saw. All brawn and no brain. Shame given the skills they have on display.

The disparity in coaching was evident. There is no way a team of Englands size should be getting stopped behind the gainline and giving such easy metres on the opposite side of the ball.

Caseys pass is absolute lightning. The more I see of him the more I think he will thrive at the highest level. He's a proper pest too. Really what you want to see from your 9. The clapping at the lineout was hilarious and he's not afraid to give out to everything in his vicinity.

Healy was very very good when he came on. Really calmed things down when it looked like the game might completely open up. I can see why Flannery started. Probably a better distributor to get the attacking threats outside him moving. That backline can hurt you from anywhere.

Front 5 are a seriously athletic unit. Probably lack top end size but their conditioning and fitness is probably unmatched by their peers at this tournament

mogwai81

I thought Healy‘s touch finders were brilliant yesterday. Most of the time he went for the 5 metre line over a more conservative kick. His forwards must get a real energy boost seeing him make those kicks.

kingofthekong

This Irish team are one of the hungriest, fearless Irish under age teams I've seen,

They will take on anyone, are extremely aggresive, have great linespeed in defense which caused England attack huge issues,

Also going forward they have an extremely high tmepo, fast recycling and relentless pace,

Really really impressive from a side missing some top talent, my only worry is picking up more injuries, they are already without Penny, Byrne, molony, hawkshaw - probably Allison - they really cant afford anymore to key players

kingofthekong

Jaysus having Australia on Saturday is a huge ask after that, another massive game while Australia were able to cruise past Italy, getting a nice points difference against England may mean they wont have to beat Australia if England can.

Surely they could've spaced a few more days between these games? the scheduling is absolutely brutal

The Lost Sheep

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Only caught the second half.

Very happy with that performance. Very mature group this years crop seems to be. Littered with lads willing to step up.

Definitely had a few things go our way. I thought the ref was a little bit kind to us with knock on advantage once or twice and I don't know how the TMO didn't see Healys foot in touch for his dot down. Not to mention their second row knocking on over the line.

Deserved the win though. England weren't really playing smart rugby from what I saw. All brawn and no brain. Shame given the skills they have on display.

The disparity in coaching was evident. There is no way a team of Englands size should be getting stopped behind the gainline and giving such easy metres on the opposite side of the ball.

Caseys pass is absolute lightning. The more I see of him the more I think he will thrive at the highest level. He's a proper pest too. Really what you want to see from your 9. The clapping at the lineout was hilarious and he's not afraid to give out to everything in his vicinity.

Healy was very very good when he came on. Really calmed things down when it looked like the game might completely open up. I can see why Flannery started. Probably a better distributor to get the attacking threats outside him moving. That backline can hurt you from anywhere.

Front 5 are a seriously athletic unit. Probably lack top end size but their conditioning and fitness is probably unmatched by their peers at this tournament

Would agree with lot of that.
Advantage was kind at times but he was same for each side tbh and cant complain about that.
As i said about casey to someone in the house. He's a real stereotypical Limerick junior rugby scrumhalf.....

mogwai81 wrote: »

I thought Healy‘s touch finders were brilliant yesterday. Most of the time he went for the 5 metre line over a more conservative kick. His forwards must get a real energy boost seeing him make those kicks.

Bens always had excellent boot and worked a lot with Pat Whelan in Nenagh when not in school. His kicking always been top class but munster have really worked this season on areas like his footwork and speed work to really improve his game.

kingofthekong wrote: »

Jaysus having Australia on Saturday is a huge ask after that, another massive game while Australia were able to cruise past Italy, getting a nice points difference against England may mean they wont have to beat Australia if England can.

Surely they could've spaced a few more days between these games? the scheduling is absolutely brutal

Not going to happen. Always been way for 20s. Schedule is brutal. 5 games in 17 days and World Rugby unlikely to ever change for cost reasons.

worldcupfever

Ireland U-20s No 8 Azur Allison has been ruled out of Saturday’s World Cup game against Australia with a head injury and will now follow the return to play protocols.

kingofthekong

worldcupfever wrote: »

Ireland U-20s No 8 Azur Allison has been ruled out of Saturday’s World Cup game against Australia with a head injury and will now follow the return to play protocols.

looked like a leg injury when he limped off...strange

Lucas44

Will be interesting to see who’s the best Irish scrumhalf of the pitch on Saturday vs aus

worldcupfever

Lucas44 wrote: »

Will be interesting to see who’s the best Irish scrumhalf of the pitch on Saturday vs aus

Are you suggesting casey wont be playing?

Tomtom364

worldcupfever wrote: »

Are you suggesting casey wont be playing?

Is the Aussie scrumhalf Irish? Sounds more like that kinda comment.

Buer

Tomtom364 wrote:

Is the Aussie scrumhalf Irish? Sounds more like that kinda comment.

Yeah, he's from Louth. Has captained them already this year and seems fairly highly rated although I'd be very impressed if he's better than Casey. If he is even close to that level, I fully expect the provinces to be in touch.