Ireland Under 20 2019 6 Nations and World Championships

Chico Flores

Paddy McKenzie got a horrible leg break didnt he?

sellit90000

Chico Flores wrote: »

Paddy McKenzie got a horrible leg break didnt he?

injured yet.

Ayewserious

sellit90000 wrote: »

forgot he was out of school.

i'd rate Dardis over him at the moment.

Do you no where he's playing his club rugby?

Chico Flores

Ayewserious wrote: »

Do you no where he's playing his club rugby?

Benching for Trinity in Premier 1.

Started 1 game v UCD but got a knock early doors in it

Chico Flores

sellit90000 wrote: »

forgot he was out of school.

i'd rate Dardis over him at the moment.

Of course, Sam Dardis is starting in AIL 1A and scoring tries in it.

Max O'Reilly is subbing at 20s level.

sellit90000

Chico Flores wrote: »

Of course, Sam Dardis is starting in AIL 1A and scoring tries in it.

Max O'Reilly is subbing at 20s level.

Dardis has the talent, not sure why he was cut from 19's.

Sunderland00

sellit90000 wrote: »

Dardis has the talent, not sure why he was cut from 19's.

Bad attitude problems was the reason I heard

sellit90000

Sunderland00 wrote: »

Bad attitude problems was the reason I heard

Yeah heard similar.

D14Rugby

Sunderland00 wrote: »

Bad attitude problems was the reason I heard

Not bad attitude problems.

No leinster U20's fixtures this week from what I can see. Presumably to accommodate the camp and get a rest week in for player welfare

sellit90000

D14Rugby wrote: »

Not bad attitude problems.

why then?

D14Rugby

sellit90000 wrote: »

why then?

Not my place to say, not just incase I was told something wrong but also because it's really nobody else's business

sellit90000

D14Rugby wrote: »

Not my place to say, not just incase I was told something wrong but also because it's really nobody else's business

fair enough, we shall wait and see if he gets another look from leinster.

ArmchairQB

sellit90000 wrote: »

a potential Leinster u20 side:

1. Guiseppe Coynel(DUFC)
2. Declan Adamson(Clontarf)
3. Michael Milne(UCD)
4. Ryan Baird(DUFC)
5. Charlie Ryan(UCD)
6. Martin Moloney(Old Belvedere)
7. Scott Penny(UCD)
8. Ronan Watters(St. Marys)
9. Cormac Foley(st. Marys)
10. Harry Byrne(Lansdowne)
11. Aaron O'Sullivan(UCD)
12. David Hawkshaw(Clontarf)
13. David Ryan(UCD)
14. Liam Turnerl(DUFC)
15. Rob Russel(DUFC)

a potential Leinster u19 side

1. Harry Noonan(Old Wesley)
2. John McKee(Old Belvedere)
3. Thomas Clarkson(DUFC)
4. Cian Prendergast(UCD)
5. Brian Deeny(Clontarf)
6. Anthony Ryan(DUFC)
7. Ethan Baxter(Old Belvedere)
8. Jody Booth(DUFC)
9. Shane Murphy(UCD)
10. Paddy McKenzie(Old Wesley)
11. Ronan Quinn(DUFC)
12. Ben O'Shea(Old Belvedere)
13. Luis Faria(DUFC)
14. Tom Maher(UCD)
15. Sam Dardis(Terenure)

David Ryan hasn't exactly been lighting it up for UCD this season I wouldn't have him near the squad better centres in Tarf, Trinity & Lansdowne from what I have seen so far no idea of their names mind but they would be ahead of Ryan in my opinion from what I have seen

Thermoman12

ArmchairQB wrote: »

David Ryan hasn't exactly been lighting it up for UCD this season I wouldn't have him near the squad better centres in Tarf, Trinity & Lansdowne from what I have seen so far no idea of their names mind but they would be ahead of Ryan in my opinion from what I have seen

He’s only there because his brother is James Ryan and he went to Michael’s

sellit90000

Thermoman12 wrote: »

He’s only there because his brother is James Ryan and he went to Michael’s

I think Leinster rugby and the IRFU are well past the days of selecting a player just because of who he is, where he went to school and who he is related to.

sellit90000

ArmchairQB wrote: »

David Ryan hasn't exactly been lighting it up for UCD this season I wouldn't have him near the squad better centres in Tarf, Trinity & Lansdowne from what I have seen so far no idea of their names mind but they would be ahead of Ryan in my opinion from what I have seen

Not ahead of Ryan in the leinser sub-academy, not that I think Ryan is anything special.

Centre is weak at the moment in the underage section.

ArmchairQB

sellit90000 wrote: »

Not ahead of Ryan in the leinser sub-academy, not that I think Ryan is anything special.

Centre is weak at the moment in the underage section.

Says more about sub academy than anything else as there are better centres out there at 20s level playing week in & week out. These lads develop quickly at this age but academies and others slow to look outside of the system and find a few players

Thermoman12

ArmchairQB wrote: »

Says more about sub academy than anything else as there are better centres out there at 20s level playing week in & week out. These lads develop quickly at this age but academies and others slow to look outside of the system and find a few players

It’s a pitty Leinster don’t really look at players who are playing fantastic rugby at u20 level or AIL level but aren’t in the Leinster set up, there’s a lot of unrecognized talent out there

sellit90000

Yeah Leinster do a poor job of identifying and developing talent. :pac:

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

Yeah Leinster do a poor job of identifying and developing talent. :pac:

They do, a lot of talent goes unrecognized, there’s loads of great u20 players that are not on Leinster playing for their club that are playing better than players in the academy/ sub academy, don’t get me wrong there’s some fantastic talent in the academy but I’m just saying some talent goes unrecognized

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

Yeah Leinster do a poor job of identifying and developing talent. :pac:

Why do you think we do so poor every year in Ireland u20s?

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Why do you think we do so poor every year in Ireland u20s?

Ireland the country or Leinster the province?

Thermoman12

Chico Flores wrote: »

Ireland the country or Leinster the province?

Both, and majority of the players on Ireland are from Leinster

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

It’s a pitty Leinster don’t really look at players who are playing fantastic rugby at u20 level or AIL level but aren’t in the Leinster set up, there’s a lot of unrecognized talent out there

Don't think you can say Leinster don't look, there has never been as many underage provincial teams from the Shane Horgan cup to Metro and regional teams.

Some slip through the net, rightly or wrongly, but that is the same as every code. They make a judgement call based on their body of work.

It is working out for Leinster.

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Both, and majority of the players on Ireland are from Leinster

We got to a final two years ago.

Buckled with injuries the year after

This year, poor crop maybe missing a few players like Michael Lowry but its not like their were 15 lads totally robbed of a place.

You are angling on a schools bad clubs good routine here

Thermoman12

Chico Flores wrote: »

We got to a final two years ago.

Buckled with injuries the year after

This year, poor crop maybe missing a few players like Michael Lowry but its not like their were 15 lads totally robbed of a place.

You are angling on a schools bad clubs good routine here

I think there were a few players that missed out and didn’t get an opportunity

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

I think there were a few players that missed out and didn’t get an opportunity

Possibly there was, the coaches/selection committee obviously saw differently. Probably did miss out given where we finished up.

But thats a one off tournament not a sweeping statement on Leinster being bad at identifying talent

Squidgy Black

Thermoman12 wrote: »

I think there were a few players that missed out and didn’t get an opportunity

Players are in and out of development/representative squads from a young age, and schools games and club games are all scouted by Leinster staff.

I think it's disingenuous to say they didn't get an opportunity or aren't being watched. It's more like a case of the Leinster staff doesn't see them being a potential prospect for the province, or flaws that might not seem obvious to the average joe.

We've one of the best academies in Europe in terms of producing top talent.

D14Rugby

My only gripes with leinster would be the have to play AIL to make 20s when external factors can influence why a player isn't other that their level, and the emphasis on size but I think that's a problem with rugby in general

Heymans

Thermoman12 wrote: »

He’s only there because his brother is James Ryan and he went to Michael’s

Yeah strikes me as a rangy unathletic centre who is middling. One wonders about why they hype such average players down there.

sellit90000

there is very little hype around David Ryan.

sellit90000

Thermoman12 wrote: »

I think there were a few players that missed out and didn’t get an opportunity

such as?

if you are going to say that then back it up

sellit90000

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Why do you think we do so poor every year in Ireland u20s?

not poor every year.. last two years have been poorly coached, injury riddled and undersized.

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

such as?

if you are going to say that then back it up

Richie Bergin, Max Kearney, Tom Monaghan, Chris Carey, Peter Maher

Locke_Lamora

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Richie Bergin, Max Kearney, Tom Monaghan, Chris Carey, Peter Maher

Max Kearney is a 7, Isn't he? That's obviously a fairly strong position in Leinster, especially with Penny now in the academy. Peter Maher has played for Leinster A, so they've obviously had a good look at him.

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

Richie Bergin, Max Kearney, Tom Monaghan, Chris Carey, Peter Maher

Tom Monaghan wasn't starting for Lansdowne in the majority of the games and finished up on the wing in a side that lost in the two cup games first round.

Maher did get a look in at Leinster A

Chris Carey has been in Irish u18 squads and plays AIL for Belvo

Thermoman12

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

Max Kearney is a 7, Isn't he? That's obviously a fairly strong position in Leinster, especially with Penny now in the academy. Peter Maher has played for Leinster A, so they've obviously had a good look at him.

To be honest, I actually thought Max Kearney was better than Penny and probably still is, he always out played him when they played each other in school and always made dominant tackles against him, was a pitty they dropped him probably due to his height, thought he was a fantastic player and I thought Leinster made a mistake dropping him

Chico Flores

sellit90000 wrote: »

not poor every year.. last two years have been poorly coached, injury riddled and undersized.

This is it. Not to boil it down to one player but missing that Munster lad Jack O Sullivan was a killer last year

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

To be honest, I actually thought Max Kearney was better than Penny and probably still is, he always out played him when they played each other in school and always made dominant tackles against him, was a pitty they dropped him probably due to his height, thought he was a fantastic player and I thought Leinster made a mistake dropping him

Give over, Penney has been involved with the Leinster Senior Squad out of school. Max Kearney wasn't destroying teams at Prem 1 last year or this year in AIL. He is good but he isn't in Penneys league for me, but would be inclined to go with the professional coaches view too.

He would also be a year older than Penney so that makes sense in school.

Mucky_Tackies

Chico Flores wrote: »

This is it. Not to boil it down to one player but missing that Munster lad Jack O Sullivan was a killer last year

Best underage player I've seen of this crop coming through. Hopefully the knee injury doesn't curtail his development, has it all.

Thermoman12

Chico Flores wrote: »

Give over, Penney has been involved with the Leinster Senior Squad out of school. Max Kearney wasn't destroying teams at Prem 1 last year or this year in AIL. He is good but he isn't in Penneys league for me, but would be inclined to go with the professional coaches view too.

He would also be a year older than Penney so that makes sense in school.

He’s starting 7 on Trinity’s ail first team? Have you ever watched him play in school before? Or at any representative team? Penny is good but didn’t prove anything to get an academy contract straight from school, thought he would need a year of development in sub academy

sellit90000

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

Best underage player I've seen of this crop coming through. Hopefully the knee injury doesn't curtail his development, has it all.

Not even the best 8 in his age group.

See Caelan Doris.

Thermoman12

Mucky_Tackies wrote: »

Best underage player I've seen of this crop coming through. Hopefully the knee injury doesn't curtail his development, has it all.

Has he played much rugby since? Would like to know how he’s getting on

sellit90000

Thermoman12 wrote: »

He’s starting 7 on Trinity’s ail first team? Have you ever watched him play in school before? Or at any representative team? Penny is good but didn’t prove anything to get an academy contract straight from school, thought he would need a year of development in sub academy

and you were wrong.

Kearney was in the sub-academy last season and failed to make the grade.

He will be a good AIL player but thats it.

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

Not even the best 8 in his age group.

See Caelan Doris.

I would rate Jack O’ Sullivan ahead of Caelan Doris, he had a fantastic six nations and just slightly better than Doris in my opinion

Thermoman12

sellit90000 wrote: »

and you were wrong.

Kearney was in the sub-academy last season and failed to make the grade.

He will be a good AIL player but thats it.

He was dropped due to his height I believe, Penny was an inch or two taller so he got ahead

Locke_Lamora

Thermoman12 wrote: »

I would rate Jack O’ Sullivan ahead of Caelan Doris, he had a fantastic six nations and just slightly better than Doris in my opinion

Doris was injured for the six nations, but had an incredible game against south africa in the JWC. I'd forgotten about O'Sullivan tbh, is he injured? I remember thinking we would seem him sooner rather than later for Munster, but I don't think he's been playing much for the A's.

sellit90000

He is injured.

Doris was set to start ahead of O'Sullivan before injury, which isn't a surprise to anyone as Doris has been rated ahead of him all the way up.

Chico Flores

sellit90000 wrote: »

He is injured.

Doris was set to start ahead of O'Sullivan before injury, which isn't a surprise to anyone as Doris has been rated ahead of him all the way up.

I think O Sullivan would have played regardless, he was the best Irish forward in 6N.

Masterson was the big let down.

Chico Flores

Thermoman12 wrote: »

He’s starting 7 on Trinity’s ail first team? Have you ever watched him play in school before? Or at any representative team? Penny is good but didn’t prove anything to get an academy contract straight from school, thought he would need a year of development in sub academy

I've seen him play plenty of times against my mates and at AIL level this season. In school and Prem 1 last year, AIL this year.

The Leinster coaches clearly thought otherwise, ditto the Irish 20s coaches.

I am not saying he is bad, but Penney was Leinsters top try scorer (I think in that Celtic Cup) physically not at all out of place against other pros and Kearney is playing AIL. Not being destroyed or anything but nor is he cleaning up.

I also heard he may lose out to Pim and St Leger now that they are back.