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How to alert driver of presence?

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    #92
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    TheBeach wrote: »
    I didn't read all the thread. If someone knocked on my car I would definately get a fright. I think a bell would be good /less aggressive.

    Maybe you should read the whole thread? ;)


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    #93
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    TheBeach wrote: »
    I didn't read all the thread. If someone knocked on my car I would definately get a fright. I think a bell would be good /less aggressive.

    A driver won't hear your bell. Now it's too late and you've been knocked down.


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    #94
    railer201
    Registered Users Posts: 968 ✭✭✭railer201


    An effective air horn is the way to go - cyclists need to be more proactive in warning car/truck/bus drivers. With a horn a developing incident can be headed off 50 metres or so before it happens.

    ATM cyclists effectively cannot be heard, especially by drivers of large vehicles - a situation worth remediation in a proactive manner.


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    #95
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I cycled for many years without a bell or a horn, so I don't really think either is necessary. If you're incapable of shouting, I suppose an air horn, though illegal, might be a good idea. A bell is useful for a gentle to a modestly strident warning if you think a pedestrian or other cyclist is about to do something that one of you will regret, which is quite a common scenario. Despite my long-standing bell scepticism, I ended up with one, as the Dutch bike I bought came with a bell, and I actually did end up finding it quite useful; useful enough that I put bells on my other bikes.


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    #96
    Thud
    Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Thud


    Wildly Boaring wrote: »
    To the OP I'd fully agree with your actions.

    A rap or open hand smack on a roof is fair game in my opinion if a vehicle is closing you into the kerb and putting you in danger.

    You will not damage their car or paintwork once you've no ring on. If captain oblivious is that oblivious he needs to be alerted to it.

    People awful protective of their vehicles and talk about all the things they'd do if a cyclist dare touch their property. Bull****. They have no moral compass? They have no problem with injuring a cyclist through carelessness or ineptitude? A tin box will not be damaged by a wrap or a slap. And no driver is actually gonna attack a cyclist for not damaging his car. He'll shout and maybe whinge and go very red in the face and tell all.his mates what a big tough guy he is.

    I would however never bother getting into an argument. No one who opens a window or gets out of a vehicle or opposingly pulls up on a bike ; is looking for a constructive discussion. They are looking to be right. All a bit pointless really.

    If a driver closed in close enough that I could rap on their car and then jumped out for a row I would shrug and be on my way.

    Speaking as a CAR driver, VAN driver, HGV driver, TRACTOR driver, EXCAVATOR driver, cyclist, MOXY driver, JCB driver.........

    Had a guy start ranting at me out his window after i banged on his car when he encroached on a cycle lane i was in while he was trying to pass a car (on the left) that was turning right in his lane, asked him if he wanted to get out of his car to sort it out, he muttered and drove on pretty quickly after that


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    #97
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    It isn't quite true that bells can't be heard inside cars either. If the driver is playing loud music or driving fast, there's no chance, but there are quite a lot of scenarios where cars are, say, lane drifiting in slow-moving traffic, where the driver can hear distinctive noises, even with the windows closed.


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    #98
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    Thud wrote: »
    Had a guy start ranting at me out his window after i banged on his car when he encroached on a cycle lane i was in while he was trying to pass a car (on the left) that was turning right in his lane

    It probably wasn't possible in your case, but I'd recommend manoeuvring out of the cycle lane when you see the right-turning car to block the approach of following cars rather than reacting when they do the passing-on-the-inside manoeuvre.


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    #99
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    speaking of being able to hear things, it's notable how much difference an open window makes to sorting out 'differences' with motorists.


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    #100
    Thud
    Registered Users Posts: 2,611 ✭✭✭Thud


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    It probably wasn't possible in your case, but I'd recommend manoeuvring out of the cycle lane when you see the right-turning car to block the approach of following cars rather than reacting when they do the passing-on-the-inside manoeuvre.

    There was traffic about 200m up the road so didn't think anyone would go up the left and the space was barely a car width...logic didn't apply there though


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    #101
    Johnnio13
    Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Johnnio13


    TheBeach wrote: »
    I didn't read all the thread. If someone knocked on my car I would definately get a fright. I think a bell would be good /less aggressive.

    I had an incident recently, travelling along the Thomas Hynes road towards the west wood hotel in Galway. Lights were red. They stay red for some time. There was 5 cars at the light. To the right of the cars is a short cycle lane to bikes turning right and going straight. And outside that again is another stopping box for cars going right.
    As I cycled up behind cars at lights I signaled to move to cycle lane, a d£$khead tried to overtake me and then force himself back into the lane of stationary cars going left. i BASHED the window as there was no where for me to go but under the left wheel of his car or over the kerb. He rolled down the window shouting abuse about banging on his window. I told him to look at his surroundings. Trying to overtake me moving into stationary traffic after I signaled. His response. "Touch my car again and I'll kill you and why aren't you in the cycle lane". Waste of time trying to explain all the things he was doing wrong . At that point I just told him to cop the fu£k on and moved over to the cycle lane.
    Generally drivers on that stretch are accommodating because the road is so wide. Banging on windows for me has had mixed results.


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    #102
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,248 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    Lumen wrote: »
    If a car is alongside you and moving into your space, and you have nowhere laterally to move, the most sensible course of action is to brake.

    Since you can brake easily at 6m.s-2, within one second you are 3m further back, i.e. behind the car, more or less.

    Aside from anything else, if you're possibly about to have a crash it is usually better to have it going more slowly, and so if you're 1 second away from a crash you should use that second to reduce your speed differential with the ground.

    Of course, humans are not sensible.

    Its the More or less bit thats the problem.. some cars pull in when the front bumper is right at your feet, leaving a lot of the car still behind. your also assuming its a car and not a van, a car with a trailer, a Bus or a HGV which are all significantly longer than 3m.


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    #103
    Diemos
    Registered Users Posts: 1,417 ✭✭✭Diemos


    Lumen wrote: »
    If a car is alongside you and moving into your space, and you have nowhere laterally to move, the most sensible course of action is to brake.

    Since you can brake easily at 6m.s-2, within one second you are 3m further back, i.e. behind the car, more or less.

    Aside from anything else, if you're possibly about to have a crash it is usually better to have it going more slowly, and so if you're 1 second away from a crash you should use that second to reduce your speed differential with the ground.

    Of course, humans are not sensible.
    That's a fair point, but the reaction can be instinct.

    If you are cycling along in the cycle lane, and a vehicle comes from behind and starts pushing in on you, these situations tend to play out in milliseconds.

    Having the time for deductive reasoning is a luxury you may not have.

    Plus tell me about braking when a wing mirror hits your elbow as a car pushes past in rush hour traffic while using the bus lane to try to jump traffic.:mad:


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    #104
    Johnny Jukebox
    Registered Users Posts: 658 ✭✭✭Johnny Jukebox


    Thud wrote: »
    Had a guy start ranting at me out his window after i banged on his car when he encroached on a cycle lane i was in while he was trying to pass a car (on the left) that was turning right in his lane, asked him if he wanted to get out of his car to sort it out, he muttered and drove on pretty quickly after that

    This. I think if you bang windows, you have to be prepared to go toe-to-toe with the driver because the reaction is hysterically OTT in most cases...


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    #105
    Borderfox
    Registered Users Posts: 10,257 ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    very true, from my point of view the drivers actions could harm or kill me where from the drivers point of view the cyclist might dent their car.


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    #106
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    I'll put it another way, as of course there are times when an emergency dictates you do whatever it takes to alert a careless driver.

    If you are frequently rapping on cars to get their attention, you are doing something wrong.


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    #107
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    tomasrojo wrote: »
    If you are frequently rapping on cars to get their attention, you are doing something wrong.
    to be fair, it *is* quite attention grabbing and probably an effective means to that end.

    0125dipokendrick.jpg


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    #108
    tomasrojo
    Registered Users Posts: 11,768 ✭✭✭✭tomasrojo


    That's a wonderfully specific photograph.


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    #109
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    it took a little bit longer to find than i anticipated.


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    #110
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Borderfox wrote: »
    very true, from my point of view the drivers actions could harm or kill me where from the drivers point of view the cyclist might dent their car.
    In the heat of the moment, and unfortunately often in the cold light of day, a dent to their car matters more than a human life.


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    #111
    ED E
    Registered Users Posts: 36,167 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    In the heat of the moment, and unfortunately often in the cold light of day, a dent to their car matters more than a human life.

    Its territorialism, plain and simple. Drivers see it as my space, my lane, my little box of selfishness.


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    #112
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    ED E wrote: »
    Its territorialism, plain and simple. Drivers see it as my space, my lane, my little box of selfishness.
    Entitlement too. Similar concept.


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    #113
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Effects


    Arcade_Tryer wrote: »
    In the heat of the moment, and unfortunately often in the cold light of day, a dent to their car matters more than a human life.

    I had a guy pull out from a side road and hit my bike before. He damaged his paintwork. He stopped to check it and then tried to run me down along Stephen's Green. I was able to weave through traffic to avoid him speeding up the cycle lane, otherwise it would have ended really badly for me.


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    #114
    Arcade_Tryer
    Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Effects wrote: »
    I had a guy pull out from a side road and hit my bike before. He damaged his paintwork. He stopped to check it and then tried to run me down along Stephen's Green. I was able to weave through traffic to avoid him speeding up the cycle lane, otherwise it would have ended really badly for me.
    That's unbelievable, unless of course you are a cyclist.


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    #115
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    had one today where i was cycling through rowlestown/rolestown/whatever the locals spell it, and saw a chap pull up at a junction in front of me (i had right of way); look at me and then pull out. given the sight lines, it was only when he was pulling out i realised he was pulling a horsebox. i had time to yank on the brakes, but this was a clear 'i genuinely don't care, law of the sea, you'll have to stop for me' stunt on his part.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4902899,-6.3032423,3a,75y,281.04h,87.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq1pTdCvKJSXEdK670_CsFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    he was coming out of the road to the left, taking a right.


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    #116
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    had one today where i was cycling through rowlestown/rolestown/whatever the locals spell it, and saw a chap pull up at a junction in front of me (i had right of way); look at me and then pull out. given the sight lines, it was only when he was pulling out i realised he was pulling a horsebox. i had time to yank on the brakes, but this was a clear 'i genuinely don't care, law of the sea, you'll have to stop for me' stunt on his part.

    https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4902899,-6.3032423,3a,75y,281.04h,87.74t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sq1pTdCvKJSXEdK670_CsFg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    he was coming out of the road to the left, taking a right.
    In no way defending him but he possibly presumed you were making a left turn there (i.e. turning onto the road he emerged from) as in my experience 95% of traffic does so. It would probably be better of that route was made the 'main road' and straight ahead made into a 'right turn' if you know what I mean. I've travelled that route hundreds of times but probably only went straight on maybe twice.

    EDIT: The locals seem to call it Rollers Town.


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    #117
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,592 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    arse, just realised i posted this in the wrong thread, was meant for the near misses one. not that it was a particularly near miss. i was never in much danger.

    maybe worth noting if you do go the same way i did - i did go straight on, the road swings to the right (i.e. to the north) and i took a left off it to get back to the R122 south of oldtown; that road i took a left on to is one of the more 'barely there' lanes i've been on in a while. more suitable for CX than a road bike.


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    #118
    Wishbone Ash
    Registered Users Posts: 24,995 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    ....and i took a left off it to get back to the R122 south of oldtown; that road i took a left on to is one of the more 'barely there' lanes i've been on in a while. more suitable for CX than a road bike.
    Yes, it's pretty rough alright.


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