Brexit discussion thread IV

batgoat

blinding wrote: »

You’d have to stark raving mad to vote to stay in the Eu given the chance . Its a mad house particularly with regard to Mass Immigration . Look what the Eu expected Italy to go through .

Do you think Ireland is stark raving mad? Cause we'd heavily vote to remain in the EU. In terms of negative impacts for me in day to day life, living in the EU. Far outweighed by the good. Eg a few months back, I contemplated moving to Germany for a job. Would have been no major challenges to do so.

In terms of how leaving the EU will likely impact those in the UK, workers rights are far more likely to be diminished. Discriminatory policies seem to be lauded by the strong Brexiters. More than anything, there's a genuine lack of a clue in terms of how to handle it. None of this is good for the average person.

blinding

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So explain why May climbed down on EU migrant rights if she 'had got the message'?

She has made it clear freedom of movement will come to an end .

Eu migrant rights are about Eu Immigrants that are already in Britain before Brexit .

cml387

I see that Frank Field has like Kate Hoey in London, had a vote of no confidence from Birkenhead Labour party.

Field is a conviction politician who, a bit like Enoch Powell, elevates his principles above what is actually politically wise. He's been anti EU all his career, and logic dictated that he vote with the government on that critical amendment two weeks ago.

Professor Moriarty

batgoat wrote: »

Do you think Ireland is stark raving mad? Cause we'd heavily vote to remain in the EU. In terms of negative impacts for me in day to day life, living in the EU. Far outweighed by the good. Eg a few months back, I contemplated moving to Germany for a job. Would have been no major challenges to do so.

In terms of how leaving the EU will likely impact those in the UK, workers rights are far more likely to be diminished. Discriminatory policies seem to be lauded by the strong Brexiters. More than anything, there's a genuine lack of a clue in terms of how to handle it. None of this is good for the average person.

Rees Mogg, the privileged Old Etonian, is a staunch supporter of zero contract hours. Nauseating.

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

It expected Italy to keep taking huge Numbers of Immigrants from across the Mediterranean sea. No country was going to carry on with that indefinitely . The Italians should have stopped it much sooner .

Nonsence, the EU did not cause the migration crisis. If there was no EU what would the Italians do? Either take them in or let them drown. With the EU, they have the chance to make it an EU wide problem and have other member states ease the burden on Italy.

Leroy42

blinding wrote: »

Oh I love democracy . I love the democracy of the Eu referendum . The people telling the Politicians what they want them to do . Its beautiful , gorgeous , lovely .

Ah ok, so democracy only extends as far as the borders of the UK?

After that it simply comes down to whatever you want?

You accept that NI being part of the UK means they need to accept a result, but the UK don't need to accept a result outside of the UK?

Gotcha...you have no position at all

blinding

batgoat wrote: »

Do you think Ireland is stark raving mad? Cause we'd heavily vote to remain in the EU. In terms of negative impacts for me in day to day life, living in the EU. Far outweighed by the good. Eg a few months back, I contemplated moving to Germany for a job. Would have been no major challenges to do so.

In terms of how leaving the EU will likely impact those in the UK, workers rights are far more likely to be diminished. Discriminatory policies seem to be lauded by the strong Brexiters. More than anything, there's a genuine lack of a clue in terms of how to handle it. None of this is good for the average person.

I personnel do not want to be in a Eu superstate . I do not want Mass immigration in to my country of any type or the potential of same .

The Eu is not for me and I am willing to make any sacrifices for that . Most Irish people are happy in the Eu . I suppose I am stuck in the Eu .

Leroy42

blinding wrote: »

I personnel do not want to be in a Eu superstate . I do not want Mass immigration in to my country of any type or the potential of same .

The Eu is not for me and I am willing to make any sacrifices for that . Most Irish people are happy in the Eu . I suppose I am stuck in the Eu .

Yeah, democracy is a real bitch isn't it.

You can make any sacrifice you want, moving out of the EU would be a start. What you don't get is to get other people to pay that price for you.

And that is exactly what the likes of the leading Brexiteers are doing. They are making people suffer, at least in the short termm, so their ideals. They have provided no evidence of how they will regain from any loss in the future, or indeed how they will be reimbured for any short term loss.

blinding

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Nonsence, the EU did not cause the migration crisis. If there was no EU what would the Italians do? Either take them in or let them drown. With the EU, they have the chance to make it an EU wide problem and have other member states ease the burden on Italy.

The Italians and other countries would have closed their Borders and the vast majority of boats would have stopped because there would have been no point in trying the crossings .

The Australians put an end to a somewhat similar problem by making it clear that if you tried to go to Australia in this manner you would never be allowed entry to Australia . The problem largely if not completely went away . Excellent solution .

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

Oh I love democracy . I love the democracy of the Eu referendum . The people telling the Politicians what they want them to do . Its beautiful , gorgeous , lovely .

Would it have been beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely had they voted to remain in the EU? Or is it only beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely when it goes your way?

Would it not be beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely to give the people another chance to tell politicians what they want them to do when (if) the final deal between the EU and UK has been agreed?

blinding

Leroy42 wrote: »

Yeah, democracy is a real bitch isn't it.

You can make any sacrifice you want, moving out of the EU would be a start. What you don't get is to get other people to pay that price for you.

And that is exactly what the likes of the leading Brexiteers are doing. They are making people suffer, at least in the short termm, so their ideals. They have provided no evidence of how they will regain from any loss in the future, or indeed how they will be reimbured for any short term loss.

Things can change in a democracy . There is growing opposition of Mass Immigration in Ireland . I certainly will not vote for any party that is Pro Mass Immigration .

Capt'n Midnight

Leroy42 wrote: »

THere are standards and regulations in the UK, minimum wages etc. All set and controlled by the UK. If these are not being adhered to then that is the fault of the very politicians that the people, in their infinite wisdom, have opted to give even more power to

Some of those regulations, like the working time directive and other welfare and health and safety rules have come from the EU.

After Brexit the people may become free to work as many hours as they want, whether they like it or not.

blinding

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Would it have been beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely had they voted to remain in the EU? Or is it only beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely when it goes your way?

Would it not be beautiful, gorgeous, and lovely to give the people another chance to tell politicians what they want them to do when (if) the final deal between the EU and UK has been agreed?

Democracy is always beautiful , gorgeous and lovely .

Sometimes the Eu make you do it until you get their ‘ Right Answer '

First Up

blinding wrote: »

Anthracite wrote: »

What did the EU expect Italy to go through?

(not sure why I'm asking, you'll ignore this engagement just as you've ignored all the rest)

It expected Italy to keep taking huge Numbers of Immigrants from across the Mediterranean sea. No country was going to carry on with that indefinitely . The Italians should have stopped it much sooner .

Oh dear. So you don't understand the difference between mobility within the EU and immigration (refugees or otherwise) from Africa, Asia etc?

You think if Italy left the EU, the traffic across the Med would stop?

Oh dear.

blinding

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Some of those regulations, like the working time directive and other welfare and health and safety rules have come from the EU.

After Brexit the people may become free to work as many hours as they want, whether they like it or not.

I didn’t see the Eu protecting people from Zero contract hours or so much agency work . With Mass immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour workers have no rights . This is very handy for the elite to exploit working People .

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

The Italians and other countries would have closed their Borders and the vast majority of boats would have stopped because there would have been no point in trying the crossings.

Sure, close the border and the problems forcing people to flee from their country just goes away.

blinding

First Up wrote: »

Oh dear. So you don't understand the difference between mobility within the EU and immigration (refugees or otherwise) from Africa, Asia etc?

You think if Italy left the EU, the traffic across the Med would stop?

Oh dear.

Italy could close its borders and direct the boats to other Eu countries .

blinding

blinding wrote: »

I didn’t see the Eu protecting people from Zero contract hours or so much agency work . With Mass immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour workers have no rights . This is very handy for the elite to exploit working People .

I think you'll find the majority of slaves in the UK are either British or Asian. Or I imagine so anyways.

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

Things can change in a democracy . There is growing opposition of Mass Immigration in Ireland . I certainly will not vote for any party that is Pro Mass Immigration .

There is no opposition to mass immigration in Ireland because there is no mass immigration in Ireland. No party is pro mass immigration, and no party is anti mass immigration. Irish parties tend to focus on real problems rather than imaginary ones.

blinding

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Sure, close the border and the problems forcing people to flee from their country just goes away.

Your Country may not be able to solve the problems of the world . Let countries that want to solve the world problems solve them . How long will they continue to do it for ?

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

Democracy is always beautiful , gorgeous and lovely .

Sometimes the Eu make you do it until you get their ‘ Right Answer '

Surely that too must be beautiful, gorgeous and lovely. (Why are we talking like five year olds btw? It's a little creepy.)

blinding

Imreoir2 wrote: »

There is no opposition to mass immigration in Ireland because there is no mass immigration in Ireland. No party is pro mass immigration, and no party is anti mass immigration. Irish parties tend to focus on real problems rather than imaginary ones.

Approximately 15/20 % of the Irish work force are Immigrants . That is Mass immigration .

Up until recently you would not have that sort of immigration except in war time . There has been no war in the European Countries where most of this Immigration has come from .

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you'll find the majority of slaves in the UK are either British or Asian. Or I imagine so anyways.

Some Irish traveller gangs were convicted of having all sorts of people as slaves . Its a bigger problem in britain than most people realise . Much increased since Mass Immigration happened .

FrancieBrady

blinding wrote: »

She has made it clear freedom of movement will come to an end .

Eu migrant rights are about Eu Immigrants that are already in Britain before Brexit .

No, May completely climbed down from one of her 'redlines'.
i.e. 'That only those arriving before the transition period would have a right to citizenship' nobody else.
She had to agree that EU migrants who come to Britain during the Brexit transition will have the right to settle permanently in the UK.

The position now is that there is that there is no position on migrant rights after Brexit.

So you haven't a leg to stand on saying she is doing the bidding of Brexiteers who mythically voted for an end to immigration.

blinding

blinding wrote: »

Some Irish traveller gangs were convicted of having all sorts of people as slaves . Its a bigger problem in britain than most people realise . Much increased since Mass Immigration happened .

If Remain had won 52%, would you love democracy?

Leroy42

blinding wrote: »

I didn’t see the Eu protecting people from Zero contract hours or so much agency work . With Mass immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour workers have no rights . This is very handy for the elite to exploit working People .

But wouldn't that invlove the EU taking direct rule away from sovereign governments?

Seriously, at least pick a position and try to stay with it. Its the EU's fault for not dealing with the problems as you see them, and its the EU's fault when they try to solve the problems.

You know who's fault it is that Zero hour contracts are allowed in the UK? The UK government. They could outlaw them overnight if they wished. Nothing to stop them. In fact, the EU has introduced a number of regulations that have been very beneficial to workers. Holidays etc. But another one is the transfer or workers. A company cannot simply transfer you to another EU country and take away any better rights you might have had. That will be gone when you leave the EU.

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

I didn’t see the Eu protecting people from Zero contract hours or so much agency work . With Mass immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour workers have no rights . This is very handy for the elite to exploit working People .

I am going to challenge you every time you repeat this lie. There is no mass immigration in Ireland. FOM has been and is of benefit to Irelands economey. It was for the UK too. There is no mass immigration of cheap exploitable / slave labour who have no rights. I must ask you to stop spreading false information.

batgoat

blinding wrote: »

I personnel do not want to be in a Eu superstate . I do not want Mass immigration in to my country of any type or the potential of same .

The Eu is not for me and I am willing to make any sacrifices for that . Most Irish people are happy in the Eu . I suppose I am stuck in the Eu .

So substantially reduced worker rights are just a necessary sacrifice?

blinding

Deleted User wrote: »

If Remain had won 52%, would you love democracy?

I love democracy . I can’t get enough of it . Love it . The people having there say . Its wonderful .

trellheim

The EEC was well enough for me . I don’t want to be part of a Superstate . I don’t want Mass Immigration of any type in to my Country .

Nobody forced the United Kingdom to accept Maastricht, Nice or Lisbon Treaties. Is there a view that Maastricht partially led to the Tory party schism ongoing at the moment - yes for sure but its by no means a simple argument . But Daily Mail troll-style headlines such as the above serve no purpose