Brexit discussion thread IV

blinding

batgoat wrote: »

So substantially reduced worker rights are just a necessary sacrifice?

Supply and demand has been a much better method of workers ding well in my life experience . When the elites have Mass numbers they have always treated workers badly . Ideally you want supply to be tight as against demand . Then workers do well .

Its not surprising that the Elite want the Mass supply of cheap exploitable / slave labour .

cml387

Just out of interest, I note that the result of our repeal referendum is being challenged and that a decision on one challenge has been adjourned until August,so the implementation of the referendum is being delayed until that decision is made.

Does such a mechanism exist in the UK?

blinding

blinding wrote: »

I love democracy . I can’t get enough of it . Love it . The people having there say . Its wonderful .

This is incredibly trollish. You started this in After Hours six hours ago and have since moved it here and ruined the thread.

VinLieger

cml387 wrote: »

Just out of interest, I note that the result of our repeal referendum is being challenged and that a decision on one challenge has been adjourned until August,so the implementation of the referendum is being delayed until that decision is made.

Does such a mechanism exist in the UK?

No because the UK referendum was only advisory and not legally binding as ours are

VinLieger

New interesting and quite a scary development RE customs and the potential and likely break down of supply chains in the case of no deal


https://twitter.com/oliverjamesking/status/1022873025253978112

cml387

I know that Novo nordisk are the main supplier of insulin within the EU. They are Danish.

fash

blinding wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

If Remain had won 52%, would you love democracy?

I love democracy . I can’t get enough of it . Love it . The people having there say . Its wonderful .

Given that 48.1% alone wanted to stay within the EU, the will of the people is for a Norway +++ Brexit.
That means FOM.
Claiming that the will of the people is something else is contrary to democracy.

VinLieger

VinLieger wrote: »

New interesting and quite a scary development RE customs and the potential and likely break down of supply chains in the case of no deal


https://twitter.com/oliverjamesking/status/1022873025253978112

And this comment is one of the most frustrating things about Brexit.

What about all the other countries in the world that don’t make insulin and aren’t part of the EU? Don’t hear about them letting all of their diabetics die. The level of scaremongering is barbaric

Do these people not understand that people on life-saving medication cannot wait for deals to be done... And then talk of stock-piling is "scare-mongering".

My girlfriend is kept alive with daily medication and you can your arse I'd be stock-piling months of it if I were in the UK. Thankfully, we're in Vietnam where access to necessities isn't at risk.

trellheim

Insulin is being used as an example due to PM being a diabetic. Not particularly fair but it does highlight the problem.

fash

Deleted User wrote: »

blinding wrote: »

I love democracy . I can’t get enough of it . Love it . The people having there say . Its wonderful .

This is incredibly trollish. You started this in After Hours six hours ago and have since moved it here and ruined the thread.

He's a politics.ie poster - trolling while that site is down. He'll probably migrate when it comes back on line.

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

Approximately 15/20 % of the Irish work force are Immigrants . That is Mass immigration .

Up until recently you would not have that sort of immigration except in war time . There has been no war in the European Countries where most of this Immigration has come from .

Sorry, this is nonsence. The yearly net immigration rate of non-Irish nationals is barely over 0.5%. That is not mass immigration.

Having 15% of our workforce come from other countries is not a bad thing, its a great thing, why would we want them working, and paying tax somewhere else? These people come here, contribute to our society, contribute to our state finances, and create employment for Irish people, and you want to stop them coming?

Ireland has not had immigration up until recent times because the country was a poor backwater that people were falling over themselves trying to leave. Membership of the EU has changed that, yet you still think it would be mad not to want to leave the EU? :rolleyes:

trellheim

He's a politics.ie poster - trolling while that site is down. He'll probably migrate when it comes back on line.

ahhhh.... that makes sense. There's a reason I don't post in Ravenholm.

Imreoir2

fash wrote: »

He's a politics.ie poster - trolling while that site is down. He'll probably migrate when it comes back on line.

Ahh, I thought his style of posting was familler. Makes sense that he came from the "other place".

Imreoir2

blinding wrote: »

Its not surprising that the Elite want the Mass supply of cheap exploitable / slave labour .

Going to have to call you out on this lie again. There is no Mass supply of cheap exploitable / slave labour in the EU. Please stop spreading false information.

Working class heroes

blinding wrote: »

Supply and demand has been a much better method of workers ding well in my life experience . When the elites have Mass numbers they have always treated workers badly . Ideally you want supply to be tight as against demand . Then workers do well .

Its not surprising that the Elite want the Mass supply of cheap exploitable / slave labour .

This is my favorite thread on this site. I find it very informative. When I try to engage with people via a keyboard I don’t come across very articulate. I much prefer the fluidity of a face to face debate hence not posting here in case I bring down the standard. I respectfully suggest you follow suit.

Apologies to the mods for the off topic post.

ancapailldorcha

Blinding will be taking a day off. Let's get back on track.

trellheim

British officials are considering allowing the EU to impose its market regulations on Northern Ireland, while the rest of the U.K. breaks away after Brexit, according to a person familiar with the matter who declined to be named outlining proposals that aren’t public. The plan would come into force as a “backstop” -- if other options fail -- in order to guarantee that there won’t be a hard border on the U.K.’s land frontier with Ireland, an EU member state.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/u-k-is-said-to-weigh-contentious-brexit-plan-for-irish-border

somewhat clickbaity . However to be read in conjunction with Robinsons article in the media today. Let's see where this dog hunts to and who makes noises, that'll tell you who's onside

Millenium Falcon

[Deleted User] wrote: »

This is incredibly trollish. You started this in After Hours six hours ago and have since moved it here and ruined the thread.

Hi there,

I'm a refugee from the seemingly dead politics.ie site. Blinding is the same name as a troll account over there that loves to goad and bait posters on the whole brexit thing.
It (and it's socks) destroyed a very informative thread and it is currently doing the same here.
I apologise to any mods on here if I'm over stepping but blinding is a full on troll account by any standards.

Edit.

I see the mods have done something. Thanks

FrancieBrady

trellheim wrote: »

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-07-25/u-k-is-said-to-weigh-contentious-brexit-plan-for-irish-border

somewhat clickbaity . However to be read in conjunction with Robinsons article in the media today. Let's see where this dog hunts to and who makes noises, that'll tell you who's onside

Essentially they are gonna throw the DUP under the bus?

For Forks Sake

blinding wrote: »

Approximately 15/20 % of the Irish work force are Immigrants . That is Mass immigration .

Up until recently you would not have that sort of immigration except in war time . There has been no war in the European Countries where most of this Immigration has come from .

535475 out of a total of 4,761,865 is 11%.


Also, you'll note from this handy graphic from the CSO (you know, the folk who compile the Census data) the breakdown of those 535475 (hint; most of them are from the EU) including "Mass Immigration" of over 100k Brits :rolleyes:

judeboy101

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Essentially they are gonna throw the DUP under the bus?

That would be delicious irony. The dup were in "power" when the north was legally economically wedded to the south.

trellheim

Essentially they are gonna throw the DUP under the bus?

As I said, lets see who makes noises from that side and what kind of noises. Its guaranteed to provoke some sort of a response given the wording.

i.e. lets see if Mays office stays silent. ( I mean they very pointedly stayed quiet over the Sajid Javid immigration thing during the week )

Edit : its a day or two old so may have been rebutted already

FrancieBrady

trellheim wrote: »

As I said, lets see who makes noises from that side and what kind of noises. Its guaranteed to provoke some sort of a response given the wording.

i.e. lets see if Mays office stays silent. ( I mean they very pointedly stayed quiet over the Sajid Javid immigration thing during the week )

I said that they would do this over a year ago, I would actually be amazed if they did, after what has been said in that period.

McGiver

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

McGiver wrote: »

Let's say there would be two options:
1. Leave with the deal negotiated by HM Gov
2. Remain

In an ideal world there would be those choices AND
unbiased information from something approaching our Referrenum Comission produces

But I'm still going with -
*Not all choices may appear

Because unless May rolls back on the ECJ or EHCR it'll be - Deal or No Deal !
Which means the 48% who voted remain will be completely disinfranchised

And since any likely UK offering was rejected by the EU on principle years ago the leavers won't be voting for anything either.



But maybe they'll get a dose of reality. Apart from May's red lines, and the Brexiteers red lines, the question is how can the UK make this look like a win ?

Maybe call a bigger fish , Trump goes public on destroying an independent UK ?
Be dead easy to push his buttons, and he can do remarkably quick U-turns, almost on demand.

Don't think any responsible government would ever put "no deal" on a ballot paper as an option. That would be ridiculous. The consequences of no deal are serious and any government of a developed country must prevent it at all cost.

First Up

Deleted User wrote: »

VinLieger wrote: »

New interesting and quite a scary development RE customs and the potential and likely break down of supply chains in the case of no deal


https://twitter.com/oliverjamesking/status/1022873025253978112

And this comment is one of the most frustrating things about Brexit.

What about all the other countries in the world that don’t make insulin and aren’t part of the EU? Don’t hear about them letting all of their diabetics die. The level of scaremongering is barbaric

Do these people not understand that people on life-saving medication cannot wait for deals to be done... And then talk of stock-piling is "scare-mongering".

My girlfriend is kept alive with daily medication and you can your arse I'd be stock-piling months of it if I were in the UK. Thankfully, we're in Vietnam where access to necessities isn't at risk.

A "no deal" Brexit doesn't mean trade will stop. It might involve tariffs etc but its not an embargo.

McGiver

VinLieger wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

'Emergency Powers'...A bit OTT, Britain is one of the most non authoritarian countries on the planet. Some on here would have you believe that the Far Right are about to seize power in some kind of Putsch.

1% of the worlds population yet 20% of its cctv yeah not authoritarian at all....

And look at politicalcompass.org where conservatives stand on the 2-dimensional political assessment, they are very high on the authoritarian-liberal axis. Also UK could easily be called a police state. I've never seen so many police forces on the street before I lived in England. The country isn't authoritarian, but it's political class has a strong leaning towards it (especially tories).

mouldybags

fash wrote: »

He's a politics.ie poster - trolling while that site is down. He'll probably migrate when it comes back on line.

That's not trolling. That's stupidity, racism and xenophobia.

Imreoir2

For Forks Sake wrote: »

535475 out of a total of 4,761,865 is 11%.


Also, you'll note from this handy graphic from the CSO (you know, the folk who compile the Census data) the breakdown of those 535475 (hint; most of them are from the EU) including "Mass Immigration" of over 100k Brits :rolleyes:

In fairness, he did specify the workforce, which I looked up and did come out at about 16%. That does not mean we have mass immigration though, as I pointed out above our yearly net immigration rate for non-Irisn nationals is about 0.5%.

The more important point, for me, is not the number but the impact. If you ask me, the impact of immigration has been very positive. It has enriched the country culturally and economically.

mouldybags

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Essentially they are gonna throw the DUP under the bus?

I'm guessing that has been the plan all along. They couldn't really be as incredibly daft as they seem but have to stick to the 'No border in the Red Sea' line to keep the DUP and hard brexiteers on board for now. Politics, innit

McGiver

Germany doesn't actually need the EU. It would probably be the least damaged by the breakup of the EU in fact, as its goods are desired the world over.

Exactly. Actually Euro is too weak currency for Germans, Deutsche Mark was stronger, but I think Germans are OK with that for the sake of the political and economic integration, correct me if I'm wrong.

What is important is that Germany voluntarily chose to contain itself in the EU structures and went ahead with a political integration as a reaction to the issues they created in first half of the 20th century. And all other founding EU members were also happy to contain Germany in the EU, as well as contain themselves in it too, as opposed to let Germany go loose, because Germany is just very strong industrious nation and whenever it went alone it ended up in disaster. And it is exactly this arrangement which lead to the longest period of prosperity and peace in European history, and almost total elimination of the kind of rivalry between European nations which in the past lead to wars every few years.