Brexit discussion thread IV

Mezcita

blinding wrote: »

I suppose they tell ya on the packet if its chlorinated . Maybe some People will like it .

Great to see that you have brought your world class posting from Politics.ie over here while their site is down.

ancapailldorcha

Mezcita wrote: »

Great to see that you have brought your world class posting from Politics.ie over here while their site is down.

Don't get personal please.

Junkyard Tom

blinding wrote: »

Britain will squeeze the 26 counties

Britain can't squeeze Ireland because Ireland is the EU. It's not the 19th Century.

Spook_ie

catrionanic wrote: »

My husband works in a large British law firm in Dublin. They have been asked to advise the British government on what will happen to the electricity market in the event of a no deal brexit... bearing in mind that ESB owns the power supply to all of NI and parts of Britain. They have asked whether power would be shut off....

8 months before Brexit and they're only now asking whether they will have electricity!

You'd think that NI had no generating capacity itself from reading that, they do, the main problem I imagine would be interconnectors being switched off, but they send electricity in both directions and would affect Irish supplies and costs as well, but who knows the EU might rule that they had to be switched off

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Northern_Ireland


http://ireland2050.ie/questions/why-is-our-power-system-connected-to-britain/

http://ireland2050.ie/questions/why-do-we-need-interconnection-between-the-republic-and-northern-ireland/

blinding

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain can't squeeze Ireland because Ireland is the EU. It's not the 19th Century.

The Eu might be looking after big important stuff and forget about us . They can’t even see us with the other Island in the way !

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

You'd think that NI had no generating capacity itself from reading that, they do, the main problem I imagine would be interconnectors being switched off, but they send electricity in both directions and would affect Irish supplies and costs as well, but who knows the EU might rule that they had to be switched off

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_power_stations_in_Northern_Ireland


http://ireland2050.ie/questions/why-is-our-power-system-connected-to-britain/

http://ireland2050.ie/questions/why-do-we-need-interconnection-between-the-republic-and-northern-ireland/

Northern Ireland has an energy deficit. They don't have the capacity to generate what they need and take our excess. In the event of the interconnector being switched off, we go back to generating our own power and blowing off the excess that went north.

There will be no deficit here.

First Up

blinding wrote: »

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Britain can't squeeze Ireland because Ireland is the EU. It's not the 19th Century.

The Eu might be looking after big important stuff and forget about us . They can’t even see us with the other Island in the way !

Or you might be talking from a position of spectacular ignorance of what is going on.

An Ciarraioch

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Northern Ireland has an energy deficit. They don't have the capacity to generate what they need and take our excess. In the event of the interconnector being switched off, we go back to generating our own power and blowing off the excess that went north.

There will be no deficit here.

A timely article on this:

https://sluggerotoole.com/2018/07/30/with-no-power-comes-no-responsibility-northern-ireland-sleepwalking-towards-an-electricity-crisis/

Thargor

Strange times in England:

https://twitter.com/peterjukes/status/1023672256445276163

Spook_ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Northern Ireland has an energy deficit. They don't have the capacity to generate what they need and take our excess. In the event of the interconnector being switched off, we go back to generating our own power and blowing off the excess that went north.

There will be no deficit here.

I never said there'd be a deficit here, however, according to the sources supplied there could well be an energy cost to switching off inter connectors

Right now we are benefitting from lower price electricity imports from Britain. Since the East-West interconnector came into operation it has supplied between 8 and 10% of Ireland’s electricity. Recent studies conclude that Irish electricity prices are 9% lower as a result of the East-West Interconnector 1.

Now you don't expect to cut off the interconnectors to NI without cutting off the EW connector also.

Also you'd need to factor in the Moyle inter connector between Scotland and NI

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

I never said there'd be a deficit here, however, according to the sources supplied there could well be an energy cost to switching off inter connectors


Now you don't expect to cut off the interconnectors to NI without cutting off the EW connector also.

Also you'd need to factor in the Moyle inter connector between Scotland and NI

A lot of things will get more expensive here but there will be no deficit in supplies. Which is what you said.

and would affect Irish supplies

Bit cynical

Someone called BS on the electricity issue a while back and I think it was correct to do so. On what grounds would supply to the North be switched off? What would doing so achieve?

Anthracite

Bit cynical wrote: »

Someone called BS on the electricity issue a while back and I think it was correct to do so. On what grounds would supply to the North be switched off? What would doing so achieve?

Will it be legal? The other questions follow from that.

LeinsterDub

Bit cynical wrote: »

Someone called BS on the electricity issue a while back and I think it was correct to do so. On what grounds would supply to the North be switched off? What would doing so achieve?

Under what regulatory regime would we supply the North energy?

Spook_ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A lot of things will get more expensive here but there will be no deficit in supplies. Which is what you said.

As in the cost of Irish Supplies!

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

As in the cost of Irish Supplies!

That would then be 'cost of supplies'

not

and would affect Irish supplies and costs

Bit cynical

Anthracite wrote: »

Will it be legal? The other questions follow from that.

What law prevents it?

Charles Babbage

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Under what regulatory regime would we supply the North energy?

As long as they pay, what would the problem be?
Tariffs could be a problem I suppose, but still not a problem for the supplier.

Spook_ie

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That would then be 'cost of supplies'

not

Yes

Right now we are benefitting from lower price electricity imports from Britain. Since the East-West interconnector came into operation it has supplied between 8 and 10% of Ireland’s electricity. Recent studies conclude that Irish electricity prices are 9% lower as a result of the East-West Interconnector 1.

The East West connector has supplied between 8-10% of Irelands Electricity (AND) at a saving of 9%

The Irish Grid would have to be turned back on/up to supply the 8-10% deficit at a cost of circa 9% to consumers. Pendatics seems to be rife on here

LeinsterDub

Charles Babbage wrote: »

As long as they pay, what would the problem be?
Tariffs could be a problem I suppose, but still not a problem for the supplier.

In the event of new deal brexit, we will literally have no legal structures in place to accommodate cross border energy

FrancieBrady

Spook_ie wrote: »

Yes



The East West connector has supplied between 8-10% of Irelands Electricity (AND) at a saving of 9%

The Irish Grid would have to be turned back on/up to supply the 8-10% deficit at a cost of circa 9% to consumers. Pendatics seems to be rife on here

If you say there is going to be a problem with 'supplies and costs' you are talking about two different things.

Nothing pedantic about responding to a statement like that to say that there will be no problems with one of those things - supply.

Taytoland

trellheim wrote: »

I very much doubt the electricity is going to go off in hospitals. It's becoming a bit far fetched now, what next mile high tidal waves?

If you search there is  a non trivial plan to float generator rafts to NI ( no I'm not messing ) for this exact problem.

Ok I'll take pity and save you a google

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/brexit-government-plan-for-electricity-barges-in-irish-sea-should-northern-ireland-be-cut-off-37108625.html

I'd bet my house this never happens.

ancapailldorcha

Taytoland wrote: »

This would be good for society, get people outside in the fresh air.

Enough one liners please.

Water John

Marcus Fysch MP Brexiteer given a boll***ing by Newnight Presenter. He was rubbishing the points being made by a food supplier with platitudes and she called him out.
Their empty chamber is now ringing very hollow

Econ__

Bit cynical wrote: »

Someone called BS on the electricity issue a while back and I think it was correct to do so. On what grounds would supply to the North be switched off? What would doing so achieve?

The UK energy minister was on Question Time a few weeks ago and mentioned no deal plans for Northern Ireland did include sticking generators on barges in the Irish Sea.

It was the FT that originally reported this, so not exactly an unreliable source.


As to whether it would be needed in a no deal scenario - it'd depend on whether it could get covered in an emergency agreement to keep NI in that part of the EU ecosystem.

An Claidheamh

blinding wrote: »

The Eu might be looking after big important stuff and forget about us . They can’t even see us with the other Island in the way !

And yet you and your ilk are are whinging about Ireland and the EU, together, "bullying" the Brits?

Now, it's the EU don't like Ireland?

You just can't accept Britain has no power any more.

Seeing the British trying to pretend they care about Irish economics and sovereignty is as pathetic as it sounds.
Lord Haw Haws, weirdos, illiterates, jingoists, thugs and idiots the whole lot of them

Here is hoping for a hard Brexit, poaching British business and a border poll.

Only way to put manners on our neighbours.

They are not a serious country and are in way over their heads.

Strazdas

Water John wrote: »

Marcus Fysch MP Brexiteer given a boll***ing by Newnight Presenter. He was rubbishing the points being made by a food supplier with platitudes and she called him out.
Their empty chamber is now ringing very hollow

I saw the interview. Very telling that Emily angrily told this nutcase he was churning out platitudes when he referred to "respecting the will of the people". It might just be starting to dawn on the mainstream media that they are dealing with a loony religious cult every time they invite a Brexiteer on.

An Claidheamh

twinytwo wrote: »

You better hope its not a no deal. This country is rightly ****ed if it is.

Forget all the lip service coming from the EU they don't give two ****s about us.

Naturally all the EU lovers will try to convince you otherwise

Sorry but could you explain how Britain ignoring the GFA, threatening Ireland, and the EU protecting the rights of the former is the EU's fault and not Britain's?


After all any Irish person would know no one ever asked the British to steal the North or for a "shared history".


Or are you just some loser on a laptop in the North of England pretending to be from Eyeland, upset about the humiliation you brought on yourself and too ignorant to realise Ireland has no jingoistic exceptionalist imperialist background?


As no intelligent person could see Brexit and its direction as anything other than a British farce.

The EU is their new Pope in Rome, Irish, American revolutionaries, Boer, Muslims, foreigners.

They'll lose this time again.

Why they are dragging it out to damage their own economy to maximum effect is just bizarre.

Peregrinus

Charles Babbage wrote: »

As long as they pay, what would the problem be?
Tariffs could be a problem I suppose, but still not a problem for the supplier.

The UK and the Republic both participate in the Single Energy Market, which involves a common regulatory regime, enforcement measures, dispute resolution processes, etc. In a no-deal Brexit, the UK leaves the SEM, and (by definition) there is no deal to replace it.

In this circumstance, continuing to operate the interconnector leaves RoI energy companies buying power from unlicensed, unregulated suppliers, which is likely to be a breach of their own regulatory regime. As far as selling power goes, SFAIK there is no legal prohibition on selling power to unlicensed, unregulated distributors outside the SEM, but there might be commercial caution about selling to a customer who is not amenable to the jurisdiction of the regulator, or to dispute resolution processes.

These are soluble problems, particularly as regards selling power to UK distributors, but it will take a little time to devise and implement solutions. Hence the proposal (which is from the UK side) to import emergency diesel generating capacity to NI and rely on that, until a framework for purchasing power from the RoI can be agreed and established. Probably Elon Musk will spot a marketing opportunity and offer to build them a giant battery plant.

Bit cynical

Peregrinus wrote: »

Hence the proposal (which is from the UK side) to import emergency diesel generating capacity to NI and rely on that, until a framework for purchasing power from the RoI can be agreed and established. Probably Elon Musk will spot a marketing opportunity and offer to build them a giant battery plant.

I doubt very much that that would actually happen. When the North leaves the EU, it is true that Ireland could refuse to supply power, but I think we can agree that it is not in Ireland's interest to do so.

Will Ireland be permitted to sell electricity? I think so. All it means is that an agreement is in place whereby the UK agrees to abide by certain standards, which they almost certainly would since it is in their interest too.

It is not against EU law for a country to sell electricity to a third country.

But since the possibility exists, however remote, the UK will have some document outlining contingency plans. Doesn't mean it will happen though.