Brexit discussion thread IV

Leroy42 · 31-07-2018 10:38am

Blinding, you have been asked to provide details of people that are calling for a cancelation of Brexit without a 2nd ref, a GE or a vote in Parliament. Can you provide anything to support your position?

If you can't then we can close off that little bit.

Can you provide details of what leaving the EU actually meant? Did it explicitly rule out EEA at the time. I have looked at a copy of the voting papers and I can't see it written anywhere.

blinding · 31-07-2018 10:38am

Leroy42 wrote: »

Cameron lost. Why are you bringing him up. I don't understand. Do you think the losing party in a GE should dictate government policy?

The People decided . Democracy is Great .

Hurrache · 31-07-2018 10:39am

blinding wrote: »

Brexit sent to every house at a cost of £ 9 million .

Even with all this the People voted for Brexit . There is no basis what so ever that the People Voted for a soft Brexit .

Why do you keep telling us about Camerons leaflet?

A simple question for you, again. Can you show us the official documentation which outlined the type of Brexit that the people were voting for in the referendum?

Leroy42 · 31-07-2018 10:40am

blinding wrote: »

The People decided . Democracy is Great .

Totally agree.

They decided to leave the EU. Anything else is just your opinion.

They didn't decide to curb to power of the Lords. They didn't decide to curb the sovereignty of the HoC.

ambro25 · 31-07-2018 10:42am

blinding wrote: »

Leroy42 wrote: »

Cameron lost. Why are you bringing him up. I don't understand. Do you think the losing party in a GE should dictate government policy?

The People decided . Democracy is Great .

Er...the U.K. is not an ochlocracy.

In the U.K., Parliament is sovereign. Not the British. So confirmed the U.K. Supreme Court, the highest judicial authority of the country.

So the people did not decide anything, beside who their (respective) MP is.

Democracy is great indeed. But not all democracies are born equal in due process and fairness. The British one could do with a serious overhaul.

lawred2 · 31-07-2018 10:42am

blinding wrote: »

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

This is Cameron's Leaflet on Brexit sent to every house at a cost of £ 9 million .

Even with all this the People voted for Brexit . There is no basis what so ever that the People Voted for a soft Brexit .

Where are the list of alternatives detailed in that leaflet that would constitute a variety of soft Brexit? You know the soft Brexit alternatives that you say were 'rejected'?

Can you detail what you mean yourself by "soft" Brexit?

Where on the ballot paper were these alternatives listed and subsequently rejected?

Where and when did Mr Cameron make it clear that all alternative forms of Brexit were to be interpreted as rejected in the event of a No vote?

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2018 10:44am

kunst nugget wrote: »

Seriously, if the Tories turned around and said we've changed our mind, we're not going to follow the referendum result now because it's non-binding

The point is that they could do this if they wished and it would be perfectly democratic.
Not that they would or would ever have the courage to do it.

blinding · 31-07-2018 10:45am

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

Are you still saying that people who after being exposed to this Government Leaflet wanted a soft brexit .

They voted to leave the Eu .That means leaving the Customs union and the single market .

Hurrache · 31-07-2018 10:46am

Hey Binding, you may have missed the question.

Can you tell us in what referendum documentation you read which outlined the type of Brexit the people were ticking their boxes for?

BTW, did you actually read any of the leaflet you linked to?

VinLieger · 31-07-2018 10:46am

blinding wrote: »

The People decided . Democracy is Great .

No the people advised the government on their preference, hence the referendum being advisory only, May decided to activate article 50 with no plans or unified position to enter negotiations on.

If your going to be a pedant about these things at least get the basic facts right.

Leroy42 · 31-07-2018 10:48am

blinding wrote: »

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

Are you still saying that people who after being exposed to this Government Leaflet wanted a soft brexit .

They voted to leave the Eu .That means leaving the Customs union and the single market .

Doesn't matter what they were exposed to..

Regardless of what they read, heard, talked about. They were asked a question. When you say the ref is binding, it can only be the ref they voted on, not any of the non legal stuff that was involved.

So, the ref was "do you want to leave the EU". That was it. Nothing about borders, regulations. Red lines. Nothing.

You are making stuff up to try to suit your position but the facts simply do not support your opinion. Which is wrong.

FrancieBrady · 31-07-2018 10:50am

blinding wrote: »

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/515068/why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf

That means leaving the Customs union and the single market .

And how is that going?

blinding · 31-07-2018 10:50am

Hurrache wrote: »

Hey Binding, you may have missed the question.

Can you tell us in what referendum documentation you read which outlined the type of Brexit the people were ticking their boxes for?

BTW, did you actually read any of the leaflet you linked to?

I am capable of reading that government leaflet and understanding that the people that Voted for Brexit on that Basis were not voting for a soft Brexit .

The British People want to be independent from the Eu . Its not hard to understand .

Frank Bullitt · 31-07-2018 10:51am

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1024219049067249664

So a blockade of trucks that could last "many years"...

Here is the full story for anyone.

https://news.sky.com/story/13-mile-lorry-park-may-last-many-years-after-brexit-impact-reports-reveal-11454991

The government's "temporary solution" to potential traffic chaos on Kent's roads after Brexit will have to last "many years" as a permanent solution will not be in place until "2023 at the earliest", Sky News can reveal.

Is this the "scaremongering" that keeps getting referred to, we aren't to believe this, right?

blinding · 31-07-2018 10:52am

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FrancieBrady wrote: »

And how is that going?

Roll on to the 29th of March next year . The British should go on World trade rules and get on with it .

Let the Eu quislings swing in the wind .

Strazdas · 31-07-2018 10:53am

Hurrache wrote: »

Hey Binding, you may have missed the question.

Can you tell us in what referendum documentation you read which outlined the type of Brexit the people were ticking their boxes for?

BTW, did you actually read any of the leaflet you linked to?

The funny thing is that if the ballot paper had had any detail whatsoever (such as 'leave the EU and Single Market'), it would have been defeated.

The only way Brexiteers could get it passed was to keep the ballot paper as vague as possible. 'Leave the EU' is a vague, abstract concept that could mean a hundred different outcomes.

blinding · 31-07-2018 10:54am

Cameron said the result of the referendum would be respected .

In the following General election parties that said the referendum result would be respected got 84% of the Vote .

jooksavage · 31-07-2018 10:57am

blinding wrote: »

Cameron said the result of the referendum would be respected .

In the following General election parties that said the referendum result would be respected got 84% of the Vote .

Another referendum should settle the matter once and for all so.

blinding · 31-07-2018 11:00am

jooksavage wrote: »

Another referendum should settle the matter once and for all so.

Two from Three .

Three from five .

Did re-mainiacs not realise they could lose .

Should Croatia get another go this weekend against France ?

Personally I do not think there should be another referendum unless the winning party in a General election had it as a major plank in their manifesto .

Hurrache · 31-07-2018 11:01am

blinding wrote: »

I am capable of reading that government leaflet and understanding that the people that Voted for Brexit on that Basis were not voting for a soft Brexit .

The British People want to be independent from the Eu . Its not hard to understand .

Can you still not answer a simple question, after all you're the one who made the claim?

Where in the referendum was the type of Brexit outlined that the people were voting on?

Strazdas · 31-07-2018 11:02am

blinding wrote: »

Cameron said the result of the referendum would be respected .

In the following General election parties that said the referendum result would be respected got 84% of the Vote .

And ran away the moment the result came through (which would suggest he never had the slightest intention of 'respecting the result' ie. he was lying).

jooksavage · 31-07-2018 11:04am

blinding wrote: »

Two from Three .

Three from five .

Did re-mainiacs not realise they could lose .

Should Croatia get another go this weekend against France ?

Personally I do not think there should be another referendum unless the winning party in a General election had it as a major plank in their manifesto .

If the *yawn* remanaics lose then I suppose that's that. It wouldn't be a re-run though. This time around the UK would be voting with their eyes open, having had two years to digest the reality that was unfolding around them rather than empty promises plastered on buses.

blinding · 31-07-2018 11:07am

Hurrache wrote: »

Can you still not answer a simple question, after all you're the one who made the claim?

Where in the referendum was the type of Brexit outlined that the people were voting on?

Do you believe that the People that read that government funded leaflet wanted a soft Brexit ? They want out of the Eu .

VinLieger · 31-07-2018 11:07am

blinding wrote: »

Personally I do not think there should be another referendum unless the winning party in a General election had it as a major plank in their manifesto .

Kinda convenient for your "opinion" that the 2 largest and only possible majority parties both have the same position re brexit isn't it?

VinLieger · 31-07-2018 11:08am

blinding wrote: »

Do you believe that the People that read that government funded leaflet wanted a soft Brexit ? They want out of the Eu .

Out of the EU how exactly? Like Ukraine are out of the EU? Like Norway are out of the EU? Like Canada are out of the EU? Like Turkey are out of the EU? Or none of the above?

They are all out of the EU but under different terms, which one did everyone voting leave think they were choosing exactly?

blinding · 31-07-2018 11:09am

VinLieger wrote: »

Kinda convenient for your "opinion" that the 2 largest and only possible majority parties both have the same position re brexit isn't it?

The Liberal democrats who had a different policy got 8% .

The British want to leave the Eu . Let them go , its democracy and it is a beautiful thing .

blinding · 31-07-2018 11:10am

VinLieger wrote: »

Out of the EU how exactly? Like Ukraine are out of the EU? Like Norway are out of the EU? Like Canada are out of the EU? Like Turkey are out of the EU? Or none of the above?

They are all out of the EU but under different terms, which one did everyone voting leave think they were choosing exactly?

World Trade Rules is the most out of the Eu so that is the way to go .

ancapailldorcha · 31-07-2018 11:11am

Blinding has been banned. Again.

VinLieger · 31-07-2018 11:11am

blinding wrote: »

The Liberal democrats who had a different policy got 8% .

The British want to leave the Eu . Let them go , its democracy and it is a beautiful thing .

Ignoring the weighted advantage of FPP for larger parties and specifically the tories though arent you?

Hurrache · 31-07-2018 11:12am

blinding wrote: »

Do you believe that the People that read that government funded leaflet wanted a soft Brexit ? They want out of the Eu .

Back up your claims, show us where the people had it outlined to them what the referendum was for.

Or simply withdraw your false claims which are the foundation for all your subsequent points, and watch them topple.

Edit: I see he's banned, no point in asking again, not that there ever was.

Brexit discussion thread IV

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