Brexit discussion thread IV

Nody

breatheme wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong... but, under WTO/current EU law, RoI would be allowed to sell NI electricity, just applying the tariff and tax, right?

The problem is you'd need to sign the papers, align on the voltage, ownership requirements etc. to meet all EU requirements which are not there on day 1 which would be the issue. Can they? Yes; but how quickly however is the issue. Having roll outages for 6 months would not exactly go down well in NI for example and this is what's the core of the issue I'd guess.

breatheme

Imreoir2 wrote: »

I admit that I am entirely ignorent of how the all island eletricity market works, or what would be needed to keep it going post no-deal Brexit.

If it were a simple problem to fix, importing more generators than exist would probably not have been option one.

I've been googling tax and tariffs and the WTO has a section on electric generators, but not electricity per se. I may be missing it, however, it is quite possible I'm looking in the wrong section.

Nody wrote: »

The problem is you'd need to sign the papers, align on the voltage, ownership requirements etc. which are not there on day 1 which would be the issue. Can they? Yes but how quickly however is the issue.

Hmm. Although RoI+NI are already aligned. But in theory the "deal" could be for Ireland and NI to produce those documents, no?

lawred2

The electricity thing will be fine... but the UK will have to pay handsomely for it

Havockk

serfboard wrote: »

The funniest bit that stood out from that article for me was this one:
To which the only response can be: Hahahaha!

I read somewhere that the Indian government has already said that one of its prices for a post-Brexit deal with the UK is an increase in the number of Visas.

That, coupled with the fact that all the jobs that are being done by EU foreigners who are now leaving, will have to be done by non-EU foreigners, since there aren't enough available qualified people in the UK (think NCHDs in hospitals, for one example).

So Brexiteers, remember how you voted for Brexit to remove all the white foreigners who you don't like? Well, they're now going to be replaced by coloured foreigners who you definitely don't like!

Honestly this is incredibly serious. What this means is that proportionally more Black and Asian immigrants will flow in to take up those lower paying jobs that EU migrants had been taking up. How are they going to sell this? With the right and racism in general on the up in the UK this is going to go down like a lead Zeppelin.

Unfortunately for the UK this miserable Pandora's box is now open and it's going to be incredibly hard or impossible to close it again. I can't think of any step they can take now that would even being to unify the nation again, it's a mess.

Nody

breatheme wrote: »

Hmm. Although RoI+NI are already aligned. But in theory the "deal" could be for Ireland and NI to produce those documents, no?

RoI and NI are aligned but NI becomes third country; that means everything has to be signed again, recertified, new approvals for appropriate authority in place to monitor etc. and as it's an EU competence it has to be approved by EU (by the sounds of it; I've not dug deeper into the details).

It's basically the issue with airplane certification all over; yes all planes are certified and aligned today and will be on day 1 of Brexit. However because UK is then a third party country everything needs to be re-agreed and certified to meet EU standards.

J Mysterio

How ironic that NI could be both metaphorically and literally in the dark.

Rhineshark

Havockk wrote: »

Honestly this is incredibly serious. What this means is that proportionally more Black and Asian immigrants will flow in to take up those lower paying jobs that EU migrants had been taking up. How are they going to sell this? With the right and racism in general on the up in the UK this is going to go down like a lead Zeppelin.

Unfortunately for the UK this miserable Pandora's box is now open and it's going to be incredibly hard or impossible to close it again. I can't think of any step they can take now that would even being to unify the nation again, it's a mess.

Tbh, the Brexiters are doing blue-eyed "I'm FINE with immigration, I just don't like the racist EU; it's racist to treat white Europeans preferentially and I don't remember a blind thing about posters labelled Breaking Point or all the bigoted rhetoric that was going on before it switched almost overnight to anti-Europeans.


I strongly suspect this will last at most until June to July next year before the active racists go back to bullying other minorities. Especially as it's starting to look like the 100k cap will be scrapped because it's insane. So essentially it's straight replacement. I hope it was worth two years of chaos.

Bit cynical

Havockk wrote: »

Honestly this is incredibly serious. What this means is that proportionally more Black and Asian immigrants will flow in to take up those lower paying jobs that EU migrants had been taking up. How are they going to sell this? With the right and racism in general on the up in the UK this is going to go down like a lead Zeppelin.

Unfortunately for the UK this miserable Pandora's box is now open and it's going to be incredibly hard or impossible to close it again. I can't think of any step they can take now that would even being to unify the nation again, it's a mess.

So the brexiters aren't even proper racists! That's your criticism of them.

Nody

Nody wrote: »

RoI and NI are aligned but NI becomes third country; that means everything has to be signed again, recertified, new approvals for appropriate authority in place to monitor etc. and as it's an EU competence it has to be approved by EU (by the sounds of it; I've not dug deeper into the details).

It's basically the issue with airplane certification all over; yes all planes are certified and aligned today and will be on day 1 of Brexit. However because UK is then a third party country everything needs to be re-agreed and certified to meet EU standards.

no one will be reinventing the wheel, it will simply be a case of the UK adopting the exact same standards it has already adopted and the EU recognising that. Just as it does with Malaysia, Japan, China and every other country who has aircraft flying in and out of the EU.

The same will go for electricity (not sure how ou chage the standards of electricity though), currently the UK and Ireland have the same standard, whjy would that change.

Nate--IRL--

Indeed - continued acceptance of EU regulations and directives, in relation to the energy sector in the North, will solve the SEM issue.

Nate

Sam Russell

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Indeed - continued acceptance of EU regulations and directives, in relation to the energy sector in the North, will solve the SEM issue.

Nate

Acceptance of the NI backstop would solve the withdrawal agreement issue.

Strazdas

Sam Russell wrote: »

Acceptance of the NI backstop would solve the withdrawal agreement issue.

They don't want to do this. They think it ties them too much into the EU sphere of influence (for good).

Havockk

Bit cynical wrote: »

So the brexiters aren't even proper racists! That's your criticism of them.

No. Think you have the wrong end of the stick as far as the old racism is concerned.

I'm making a prediction that the far-right will use that to attempt to gain strength.

trellheim

What this means is that proportionally more Black and Asian immigrants will flow in to take up those lower paying jobs that EU migrants had been taking up. How are they going to sell this? With the right and racism in general on the up in the UK this is going to go down like a lead Zeppelin.

Vote Leave specifically targeted Indian/Pakistani segments especially in the West Midlands in the run up to the referendum - the point was that with EU migrants gone it would be more for them. This helped to get the vote out for Leaved

Tim Shipmans 'All Out War' mentions it once or twice

Nate--IRL--

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

Indeed - continued acceptance of EU regulations and directives, in relation to the energy sector in the North, will solve the SEM issue.

Nate

what standards are those?

I presume also, that if parts of northern Ireland suffers power shortages, the RoI will as well, due to them being on the same network. or will they somehow work out how to separate electricity coming out of each powerstation?

Havockk

trellheim wrote: »

Vote Leave specifically targeted Indian/Pakistani segments especially in the West Midlands in the run up to the referendum - the point was that with EU migrants gone it would be more for them. This helped to get the vote out for Leaved

Tim Shipmans 'All Out War' mentions it once or twice

Yeah, but we all know the true feelings of UKIP toward their Black and Asian immigrants.

Strazdas

Havockk wrote: »

Yeah, but we all know the true feelings of UKIP toward their Black and Asian immigrants.

Extreme hypocrisy of course. The same mob are ranting about British Muslims in the Daily Express and Daily Telegraph every day and speaking about them in hateful terms.

FrancieBrady

Aegir wrote: »

what standards are those?

I presume also, that if parts of northern Ireland suffers power shortages, the RoI will as well, due to them being on the same network. or will they somehow work out how to separate electricity coming out of each powerstation?

We burn off/waste our overproduction which is normally piped into the NI grid.
No losses here afaik.

Nate--IRL--

Aegir wrote: »

what standards are those?

A quick google of "EU regulations and directives, in relation to the energy sector" would have yielded what you asked for.

However this should get you started.

Nate

Imreoir2

Aegir wrote: »

what standards are those?

I presume also, that if parts of northern Ireland suffers power shortages, the RoI will as well, due to them being on the same network. or will they somehow work out how to separate electricity coming out of each powerstation?

NI has a power defecit, if both sides of the border have to rely on power generated on their own side, the north wont be able to produce enough to meet demand. The south will be able to meet demand as we can produce enough for ourselves.

Sassygirl1999

Imreoir2 wrote: »

NI has a power defecit, if both sides of the border have to rely on power generated on their own side, the north wont be able to produce enough to meet demand. The south will be able to meet demand as we can produce enough for ourselves.

NI have a power vacuum

Nate--IRL--

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

A quick google of "EU regulations and directives, in relation to the energy sector" would have yielded what you asked for.

However this should get you started.

Nate

Regulations and directives aren’t standards.

They are there to regulate a common market in the sale and supply of electricity between member states, who have very different networks. Some of the hutch are still state owned.

I see nothing in there that would prevent Eirgrid supplying electricity across its entire network, some of which happens to be in a foreign country.

Imreoir2

Imreoir2 wrote: »

NI has a power defecit, if both sides of the border have to rely on power generated on their own side, the north wont be able to produce enough to meet demand. The south will be able to meet demand as we can produce enough for ourselves.

I presumed it was more integrated than that, with power stations in Derry supplying Donegal and power stations in Meath supplying Tyrone.

I can’t see how you can split it though. Are they really going to turn off electricity interconnectors in March 30th? Sounds like doomsday scenario planning more than anything.

Nate--IRL--

Aegir wrote: »

Regulations and directives aren’t standards.

They are there to regulate a common market in the sale and supply of electricity between member states, who have very different networks. Some of the hutch are still state owned.

I see nothing in there that would prevent Eirgrid supplying electricity across its entire network, some of which happens to be in a foreign country.

The UK should have no problem being governed by the above Regulations and directives in Northern Ireland so.

Problem solved.

Nate

Imreoir2

Aegir wrote: »

I presumed it was more integrated than that, with power stations in Derry supplying Donegal and power stations in Meath supplying Tyrone.

I can’t see how you can split it though. Are they really going to turn off electricity interconnectors in March 30th? Sounds like doomsday scenario planning more than anything.

Doomsday, also known as no-deal Brexit day.

Nate--IRL--

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

The UK should have no problem being governed by the above Regulations and directives in Northern Ireland so.

Problem solved.

Nate

If they actually apply, but I’m not sure they do as this isn’t related to the European common electricity market.

Imreoir2

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Doomsday, also known as no-deal Brexit day.

So you think eirgrid will cut off supply to a major part of its market on 30th March.

Really?

listermint

Aegir wrote: »

So you think eirgrid will cut off supply to a major part of its market on 30th March.

Really?

You must have your own trade rules that countries can be run by ?

What are they tell us more about them

Imreoir2

Aegir wrote: »

So you think eirgrid will cut off supply to a major part of its market on 30th March.

Really?

I think the legal framework underpining the single eletricity market will disapear on the 30th of March if the UK does not agree a deal. Eirgrid's options may well be limited in that scenario. The UK government seems to think that the problem is big enough to require an emergency bilateral agreement to keep the lights on.

But I'm sure it will all be grand. Let's just not think about it, right?

listermint

listermint wrote: »

You must have your own trade rules that countries can be run by ?

What are they tell us more about them

So that’s a yes then.

March 30th sees all electricity interconnectors between Wales/Ireland/Northern Ireland will be turned off?