Brexit discussion thread IV

Spook_ie

Inquitus wrote: »

The EU is one of the main powers of the world, it's just soft power rather than military. As the world's 2nd largest economy it can't be anything but really, and the EU's foreign policy generally all points in the same direction despite being made up of 27 member states.

And when soft power EU meets hard power Russia, EUs going to be wanting UKs / USAs armed forces backing them.

Sassygirl1999

zapitastas wrote: »

That was Blair, Cameron was bloody Sunday

In the Commons, the prime minister began his statement by saying he was "deeply patriotic" and did not want to believe anything bad about his country. But he said that the conclusions of the 12-year inquiry were "absolutely clear".

Cameron apologized to his country men from Derry not the 'Irish '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/15/bloody-sunday-report-saville-inquiry

Spook_ie

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

In the Commons, the prime minister began his statement by saying he was "deeply patriotic" and did not want to believe anything bad about his country. But he said that the conclusions of the 12-year inquiry were "absolutely clear".

Cameron apologized to his country men from Derry not the 'Irish '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/15/bloody-sunday-report-saville-inquiry

Well considering Derry is part of the UK then that's probably right.

Sassygirl1999

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well considering Derry is part of the UK then that's probably right.

point is Britain has never apologized to ireland for anything they've done to us, we are a thorn in their sides

RobertKK

Spook_ie wrote: »

And when soft power EU meets hard power Russia, EUs going to be wanting UKs / USAs armed forces backing them.

Isn't that why NATO exists?

Itssoeasy

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well considering Derry is part of the UK then that's probably right.

point is Britain has never apologized to ireland for anything they've done to us, we are a thorn in their sides

Did the queen not make a speech in Dublin castle pointing out the issues of our past ? I know she didn't say sorry but I think it was an important start.

Itssoeasy

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well considering Derry is part of the UK then that's probably right.

point is Britain has never apologized to ireland for anything they've done to us, we are a thorn in their sides

Did the queen not make a speech in Dublin castle pointing out the issues of our past ? I know she didn't say sorry but I think it was an important start.

Sassygirl1999

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Did the queen not make a speech in Dublin castle pointing out the issues of our past ? I know she didn't say sorry but I think it was an important start.

in voting for Brexit they voted to return to the historical status quo- to work against ireland , because this is how they have always been at their greatest when working against us

revelman

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

in voting for Brexit they voted to return to the historical status quo- to work against ireland , because this is how they have always been at their greatest when working against us

Im not sure I’d agree - i think you are reading a little too much into it. There was very little thought about Ireland in the Brexit vote though I agree that some were motivated by a return to the glory days.

Spook_ie

RobertKK wrote: »

Isn't that why NATO exists?

EU isn't in NATO

briany

Before the referendum there was some talk about how the NI border would create a difficulty, but it seemed to have the equivalent net persuasive effect of some peas being thrown at a crash helmet.

Itssoeasy

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

in voting for Brexit they voted to return to the historical status quo- to work against ireland , because this is how they have always been at their greatest when working against us

Did they ? From what I saw they were thinking about themselves there and not specifically about being against Ireland.

A Dub in Glasgo

briany wrote: »

Before the referendum there was some talk about how the NI border would create a difficulty, but it seemed to have the equivalent net persuasive effect of some peas being thrown at a crash helmet.

most of Britain are truly ignorant of all things NI therefore the Brexiteers had no idea the UK would have a land border with the EU if the UK left.

It was brought up during the referendum but was then dismissed out of hand as 'scare mongering'

Junkyard Tom

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

Cameron apologized to his country men from Derry not the 'Irish '

Go up to the Bogside and tell the people that sometime and see how you get on with it.

revelman

Interesting that the latest opinion poll in Germany shows the anti-EU AfD party has now overtaken the SPD to be the second biggest party if a general election were to be held on Sunday.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/dimap.htm

I find this party concerning because of the right wing extremist-types that rank among their membership. But taken alongside the Liga in Italy etc, this does provide further context to what went on in Salzburg. I know everyone knows this already but interesting nonetheless.

Professor Moriarty

Sassygirl1999 wrote: »

In the Commons, the prime minister began his statement by saying he was "deeply patriotic" and did not want to believe anything bad about his country. But he said that the conclusions of the 12-year inquiry were "absolutely clear".

Cameron apologized to his country men from Derry not the 'Irish '

https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/jun/15/bloody-sunday-report-saville-inquiry

Cleverly, in his full statement, he used both 'Derry' and 'Londonderry'.

revelman

revelman wrote: »

Interesting that the latest opinion poll in Germany shows the anti-EU AfD party has now overtaken the SPD to be the second biggest party if a general election were to be held on Sunday.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/dimap.htm

I find this party concerning because of the right wing extremist-types that rank among their membership. But taken alongside the Liga in Italy etc, this does provide further context to what went on in Salzburg. I know everyone knows this already but interesting nonetheless.

And just to add, if you click the OST link on the webpage above, you will see that the AfD is polling as the most popular party in East Germany. Strange times indeed.

Calina

Spook_ie wrote: »

Inquitus wrote: »

The EU is one of the main powers of the world, it's just soft power rather than military. As the world's 2nd largest economy it can't be anything but really, and the EU's foreign policy generally all points in the same direction despite being made up of 27 member states.

And when soft power EU meets hard power Russia, EUs going to be wanting UKs / USAs armed forces backing them.

I might agree if the UK and US were not pretending their democratic processes were immune to Russian misinformation.

Professor Moriarty

revelman wrote: »

Interesting that the latest opinion poll in Germany shows the anti-EU AfD party has now overtaken the SPD to be the second biggest party if a general election were to be held on Sunday.

http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/dimap.htm

I find this party concerning because of the right wing extremist-types that rank among their membership. But taken alongside the Liga in Italy etc, this does provide further context to what went on in Salzburg. I know everyone knows this already but interesting nonetheless.

A lot of their support is rooted anti-immigration sentiment. I think that if/when the EU adopts a much harder stance on immigration, which they are likely to do soon, then much of the AfD support will melt away.

revelman

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

A lot of their support is rooted anti-immigration sentiment. I think that if/when the EU adopts a much harder stance on immigration, which they are likely to do soon, then much of the AFD support will melt away.

You may be right but a not insignificant part of their ‘policy’ agenda is critique of the ECB and the return to the DMark. Germans as a nation of savers have seen little return on their investments over the last decade. That is gaining some traction among voters too.

Calina

revelman wrote: »

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

A lot of their support is rooted anti-immigration sentiment. I think that if/when the EU adopts a much harder stance on immigration, which they are likely to do soon, then much of the AFD support will melt away.

You may be right but a not insignificant part of their ‘policy’ agenda is critique of the ECB and the return to the DMark. Germans as a nation of savers have seen little return on their investments over the last decade. That is gaining some traction among voters too.

I live near Trier, the hometown of Karl Marx. The last time I saw the AfD with a stall in the pedestrian zone, they were getting zero attention.

Germany is complex electorally. It is heavily decentralised. It is also complex economically, hence specific issues in exDDR areas. It is highly unlikely that the AfD will find coalition partners and it is unlikely they will manage power. Out of interest, what German language media do you read/watch?

revelman

Calina wrote: »

I live near Trier, the hometown of Karl Marx. The last time I saw the AfD with a stall in the pedestrian zone, they were getting zero attention.

Germany is complex electorally. It is heavily decentralised. It is also complex economically, hence specific issues in exDDR areas. It is highly unlikely that the AfD will find coalition partners and it is unlikely they will manage power. Out of interest, what German language media do you read/watch?

Interesting coincidence. I used to live in Trier!

I fully agree with what you say about the make up of Germany but it is still amazing that a party like the AfD is polling like this, in Germany of all places. I look at most of the main outlets, online newspapers, ARD etc but don’t look at it as much since I’ve moved home.

Calina

The latest Windrush decision is not going to gladden the hearts of the three million EU - not British - residents in the UK.

Calina

revelman wrote: »

Calina wrote: »

I live near Trier, the hometown of Karl Marx. The last time I saw the AfD with a stall in the pedestrian zone, they were getting zero attention.

Germany is complex electorally. It is heavily decentralised. It is also complex economically, hence specific issues in exDDR areas. It is highly unlikely that the AfD will find coalition partners and it is unlikely they will manage power. Out of interest, what German language media do you read/watch?

Interesting coincidence. I used to live in Trier!

I fully agree with what you say about the make up of Germany but it is still amazing that a party like the AfD is polling like this, in Germany of all places. I look at most of the main outlets, online newspapers, ARD etc but don’t look at it as much since I’ve moved home.

When the preponderance of that support has key features in common with Poland and Hungary, I think more recent history might be at play here.

Thargor

Spook_ie wrote: »

EU isn't in NATO

What a weak answer.

What are you blathering on about anyway? You think the US or the rest of NATO would sit back if Russia decided on actual military action against an EU state? Don't be delusional.

Infini

Thargor wrote: »

What a weak answer.

What are you blathering on about anyway? You think the US or the rest of NATO would sit back if Russia decided on actual military action against an EU state? Don't be delusional.

Russia isn't gonna be invading anyone anytime soon, right now they're only interested in fighting troll wars and generally ****stirring in elections if they can get away with it. They're an annoyance at worst but aren't stupid taking blatent action against EU countries would cause a serious escalation both economically and militarily and France also has a nuclear arsenal as well.

Back on topic though been looking at the pound and it dropped a good deal in 12hrs thanks to Mays little tantrum edging just short of 90p to the €1.

flutered

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I've just watched the actual speech given by Theresa May. It sounded like a temporary teacher who can't control the class and starts ranting at the pupils to respect her and she has shown them respect.

Also the transport secretary this morning(well it was from last night I think) saying the EU need to be more flexible on the Irish border.

I think lads we can put the hopes of a brexit deal in the brown bin. Utter madness from a supposed world power. These lads are meant to be one of the top crowd at sorting this stuff.

the uk is going to find out shortly if it is a world power or a little island in the atlantic off the coast of europe

revelman

flutered wrote: »

the uk is going to find out shortly if it is a world power or a little island in the atlantic off the coast of europe

I agree that Britain isn’t a super power. But even in the case of a no deal Brexit, it is hard to see how Britain is going to become an insignificant little island at least in the medium term. Britain will remain a very important country with political clout, not least because of what it has contributed the world (btw I’m not saying it hasn’t done bad things).

Sand

flutered wrote: »

the uk is going to find out shortly if it is a world power or a little island in the atlantic off the coast of europe

Well, they're neither in my view. They're a regional power with full on delusions of their reach and influence. The idea that they think they can go toe-to-toe with the EU27 is proof of that. However, it would be equally wrong headed to dismiss them as being a little island.

EdgeCase

Sterling really took a hammering after May's comments. Back at almost €1 to 90p