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Brexit discussion thread IV
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Can't a large portion of what Labour want be achieved regardless of being in the EU?
Nationalisation is mooted as the panacea, but of course when it was nationalised it was a mess. It is not private or public that is the problem, it is the focus on the company. There needs to be far more focus on delivering what the customer wants, not the shareholders or workers.
So I don't understand this constant cry for nationalisation, as if A) it wasn't tried before and
it would necessarily make anything better.
But we have nationalised bus and railways here. How does Ireland do that yet according to Labour the UK can only do so if they leave the EU? Is it can you can nationalise if private, but public can remain so?0 -
Can't a large portion of what Labour want be achieved regardless of being in the EU?
Nationalisation is mooted as the panacea, but of course when it was nationalised it was a mess. It is not private or public that is the problem, it is the focus on the company. There needs to be far more focus on delivering what the customer wants, not the shareholders or workers.
So I don't understand this constant cry for nationalisation, as if A) it wasn't tried before and it would necessarily make anything better.
But we have nationalised bus and railways here. How does Ireland do that yet according to Labour the UK can only do so if they leave the EU? Is it can you can nationalise if private, but public can remain so?
They have nationalised Railtrack or whatever they now call the rail infrastructure. Railtrack also control much of the railway companies, such as procurement and routing.
The Post Office is one target, as is water. Post Office was sold off cheap, which was a scandal. Water is not efficient and results in high costs but poor service.0 -
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Can't a large portion of what Labour want be achieved regardless of being in the EU?
Nationalisation is mooted as the panacea, but of course when it was nationalised it was a mess. It is not private or public that is the problem, it is the focus on the company. There needs to be far more focus on delivering what the customer wants, not the shareholders or workers.
So I don't understand this constant cry for nationalisation, as if A) it wasn't tried before and it would necessarily make anything better.
But we have nationalised bus and railways here. How does Ireland do that yet according to Labour the UK can only do so if they leave the EU? Is it can you can nationalise if private, but public can remain so?
I am not going to pretend to know why nationalised utilities/services didn't work in the UK. I am wondering whether it was a case of one party that wanted it to work and another that is happy to sell it off, that cannot be good to ensure the services or utilities are run in the best way possible. That is one of the charges being laid against the Tories and the NHS, they are deliberately letting its standards drop to make the decision to nationalise it easier especially if it is bleeding money and not providing an efficient service.
In any case we can look at examples of nationalised or government owned companies in other EU nations that are not only working efficiently and well but able to bid for contracts in other EU countries due to this. Why can't the UK be like this rather than letting private companies run their services and make profits for other EU countries instead of being owned by their own government and instead of profits being the target it rather be about providing reliable and affordable services.0 -
Can't a large portion of what Labour want be achieved regardless of being in the EU?
Nationalisation is mooted as the panacea, but of course when it was nationalised it was a mess. It is not private or public that is the problem, it is the focus on the company. There needs to be far more focus on delivering what the customer wants, not the shareholders or workers.
So I don't understand this constant cry for nationalisation, as if A) it wasn't tried before and it would necessarily make anything better.
But we have nationalised bus and railways here. How does Ireland do that yet according to Labour the UK can only do so if they leave the EU? Is it can you can nationalise if private, but public can remain so?
It's a bit of a grey area. There is EU law that requires competition in the market place and prevents the state form distorting the free market too much. There are exceptions, as there always is in EU law, that means that there can be state owned monopolies and state enforced distortion in areas such as vital national infastructure and so on. There are arguements on both sides, Labour could probably get away with doing most of what they wanted if they were careful. Ultimatly it would be open to being challenged before the ECJ and the outcome would depend on the courts ruleing on however Labour implement their policy. It would depend a lot on there being a reasonable need for the state to act, and that state action can be justified within the regulations, as such it does not prevent them from acting, but does limit their potential for action and forces them to implement their policies in certain ways to allow them to be justified under the rules.0 -
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This discussion has been closed.
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