Brexit discussion thread IV

First Up

Could be a close call as to which of May or Trump is first to be led quietly away.

Nody

First Up wrote: »

Could be a close call as to which of May or Trump is first to be led quietly away.

May by a long shot; she's gone shortly after crash out or cancellation come April next year at the latest.

devnull

flutered wrote: »

one can take a lot of no notice of any written agreement concerning the uk, they are inclined to tear them up

Hardly going to help them do deals with other countries is it when the UK has a track record of not sticking to what it says, and proposing and setting out one thing and then taking it off the table at the 11th hour.

Franz Von Peppercorn

First Up wrote: »

Could be a close call as to which of May or Trump is first to be led quietly away.

Unless he wants to go trumps not going anywhere. I dont think there’s even an attempt for impeachment.

First Up

Nody wrote: »

First Up wrote: »

Could be a close call as to which of May or Trump is first to be led quietly away.

May by a long shot; she's gone shortly after crash out or cancellation come April next year at the latest.

After his performance today, I'd be surprised if Trump lasts anything like that long but I won't derail this thread!

devnull

Nody wrote: »

Not someone; May is trying to bring it forward to reduce the potential time for a leadership coup or revolt... Yes, she's that desperate...

Yes - it should be of no surprise that internal management of the Tory party and their interests comes before the country.

Kermit.de.frog

If the ERG amendment on the border is passed then that would bring real new difficulty to the negotiations with the EU surely?

An Ciarraioch

Government wins first three Opposition votes handily, securing 316 votes in all of them. First ERG amendment up now, so result should come around 10.

trellheim

ERG 36 wont be got tonight I'd say on current timings. 37 and 73 are antiFAC and anti-customs union and as AC says they are ERG so we will see which way the wind is blowing now... squeaky bum time

trellheim

see how many voted as well.... there is only 605 in the chamber where the fk are the other 45

trellheim

this one we want a NO

Indestructable

And its a yes

trellheim

AYE 305/NO 302 AHHHHHHHHHH

devnull

trellheim wrote: »

see how many voted as well.... there is only 605 in the chamber where the fk are the other 45

A week or two ago they were forcing everyone in, including the sick and those who could barely walk as the numbers were so tight and every vote counted, it was quite perverse.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1018962108380270592

Looks like May has lost another minister

devnull

trellheim wrote: »

AYE 305/NO 302 AHHHHHHHHHH

And onto the next chapter of this laughing stock we go.

axer

trellheim wrote: »

AYE 305/NO 302 AHHHHHHHHHH

Is that the first erg amendment getting passed?

trellheim

yep reciprocity

devnull

axer wrote: »

Is that the first erg amendment getting passed?

Yes - JRM and the rest of his brigade have got the first part of setting the UK up for a fail passed and it's really heading to dangerous waters now.

How long before the words 'bullying' and 'punishment' come out when the EU give them some facts as to what these votes mean as things head to No Deal.

I really fear for the UK now, this could result in lasting damage.

trellheim

If you are all aware that Amdt 37 passed without a division at the end of 36 there.....

To move the following Clause—
“Single United Kingdom customs territory
(1) It shall be unlawful for Her Majesty‘s Government to enter into arrangements
under which Northern Ireland forms part of a separate customs territory to Great
Britain.
(2) For the purposes of this section “customs territory” shall have the same meaning
as in the General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade, 1947, as amended.”

Am I in spacecadet land here or are we in new territory now

Click into https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3f0453f3-e04d-403b-b749-9f0bf005cceb

look at the very end of the division at 21:44:09

Seth Brundle

Commons approves New Clause 37
Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Bill

MPs have approved unanimously New Clause 37 without division.

The clause rules out a border in the Irish Sea.

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44849501?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b4d078df0f2e1066d52648d%26Commons%20approves%20New%20Clause%2037%26&ns_fee=0#post_5b4d078df0f2e1066d52648d

Leroy42

So does this 36 mean that the great frictionless trade is now resting on whether the rest of the EU agree to act as UK tax collectors?

Taking back control?

trellheim

whoevers negotiating in Brussels for the UK tonight must be saying "right off to the pub"

Thargor

sdanseo wrote: »

I absolutely detest Sinn Féin, but they don't refuse to take their seats because they "can't be arsed".

They should take them however, for the same reconciliatory reasons as McGuinness meeting the Queen, Unionists being allowed in the Seanad and so on. It's one of the points they haven't folded on yet but probably will have to at some point for reasons such as this.

They'll never swear allegiance, there would be civil war in the party, you have to swear an oath to take your seat.

Spanish Eyes

Amazing that a rump of Mogglodytes might actually achieve this impending disaster for UK isn't it?

Spanish Eyes

Now I realise that power and legacy mean a lot to PMs. But honestly if I were TM I would resign tomorrow, and leave the amendment/hard Brexit brigade to it.

I doubt anyone is ready to step up and be responsible for the mess to come, so that could be her revenge.

Oh and by the way, Yvette Cooper should be leader of the Labour Party, she was a cracker earlier in the debate. Such vibrance. But I live in hope that there will EVER be an effective opposition now.

trellheim

Amazing that a rump of Mogglodytes might actually achieve this impending disaster for UK isn't it?

its not a rump; 305 people voted to interfere with the White paper before it got negotiated with the EU

Enzokk

Seth Brundle wrote: »

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-parliaments-44849501?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b4d078df0f2e1066d52648d%26Commons%20approves%20New%20Clause%2037%26&ns_fee=0#post_5b4d078df0f2e1066d52648d

Not a surprise that I believe the amendment passed that ruled out a Irish Sea border. No party in their right mind would have voted for dividing up the UK. The ERG played a very smart one here and forced the government in their negotiations it seems.

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Now I realise that power and legacy mean a lot to PMs. But honestly if I were TM I would resign tomorrow, and leave the amendment/hard Brexit brigade to it.

I doubt anyone is ready to step up and be responsible for the mess to come, so that could be her revenge.

Oh and by the way, Yvette Cooper should be leader of the Labour Party, she was a cracker earlier in the debate. Such vibrance. But I live in hope that there will EVER be an effective opposition now.

She will not resign, she has asked for the earlier recess to preserve her time in charge. She is making Brexit harder for herself and the country by tying her hands with the negotiations with the EU, just so she can be on the job a little longer.

What we are also seeing, there aren't a lot of "soft" Brexit Tories. I know a lot of comments were made that the ERG is too small to make a difference, yet they are able to force the hand of the PM on votes and to swing from a soft to hard Brexit. As we can see the rebels aren't enough to fight back but the ERG is enough numbers to lose her votes. Chaos to ensue I suppose.

Anthracite

trellheim wrote: »

If you are all aware that Amdt 37 passed without a division at the end of 36 there.....



Am I in spacecadet land here or are we in new territory now

Click into https://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/3f0453f3-e04d-403b-b749-9f0bf005cceb

look at the very end of the division at 21:44:09

Labour totally complicit in the looming disaster.

VinLieger

And we have a resignation, minister for defence is out due to government captilation to the ERG