Brexit discussion thread IV

kowtow

judeboy101 wrote: »

You called it.

I'd say the Govt. was saved by Labour Leavers there rather than Tory Whips.

Leonard Hofstadter

kowtow wrote: »

I'd say the Govt. was saved by Labour Leavers there rather than Tory Whips.

That's what happened last night.

I wonder did Vince Cable and Tim Farron show up this evening, seeing as they didn't last night?

An Ciarraioch

https://twitter.com/zachjourno/status/1019272798219489280

trellheim

307+301=608

HoC =650

Minus the Speaker and the shinners (1+7)= 648

40 MPs who could vote did not do so. And yes I am well aware there are sick MPs. Does anyone have any ideas whether there were 20 pairings ?

That vote really was crucial. Pity it didn't pass but no surprise.

Leonard Hofstadter

5 Brexit backing Labour MPs voted against their own whip, so that's part of the reason for the motion being defeated. No prizes for guessing who they were....

Akrasia

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That vote really was crucial. Pity it didn't pass but no surprise.

There will be plenty of more votes before it all goes tits up inevitably.

I would just love to see May hand the keys over to JRM and tell him to take the responsibility for implementing his fairytale version of brexit. I'd say he'd be gone by Christmas. Hurling from the ditch is easy. Taking responsibility for your proposals is much more difficult

Taytoland

You can almost smell the freedom from here.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/irish-government-to-up-preparations-for-hard-brexit-due-to-uk-political-instability-1.3568305?mode=amp&__twitter_impression=true

I guess the EU was watching.

Infini

trellheim wrote: »

307+301=608

HoC =650

Minus the Speaker and the shinners (1+7)= 642
34 MPs who could vote did not do so. And yes I am well aware there are sick MPs. Does anyone have any ideas whether there were 20 pairings ?

Fixed it for you! ^_^

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

https://twitter.com/zachjourno/status/1019272798219489280

They probably been waiting to see how thing's panned out with the custom's vote before making their move but it's clear this whole position is completely incompatable with the existing agreement's made. By making a statement that there's a serious risk of a Hard Brexit and basically making it a dangerous certainty it's probably the only way of making the UK wake up and say to them "you really want to do this?"

flutered

kunst nugget wrote: »

Hard Brexit has always been the endgame, hasn't it. Create complete chaos and profit from that chaos. Rees-Mogg and ERG have never had any intention of there being any compromise with the EU in the interest of the great unwashed in the UK. They are working solely in the interests of themselves and their benefactors. They've completely hijacked democracy to screw over the man on the street and got him to cheer on his own demise. It's pretty incredible stuff.

it is going to take a sismic shift to remove forty years of brexit indoctorination

flutered

seamus wrote: »

To be fair, that was Obama speaking in the interests of keeping the UK in the EU, not making any promises.

The only thing Trump is consistent on is doing the exact opposite of whatever Obama did.

But it would be a mistake for the UK to rely on him for anything or to assume that any message of support said today will still hold true 6 hours later.

Obama's "back of the queue" commitment would be preferable to Trump's "whatever I currently feel like saying" commitment. At least then the UK would know what to expect.

to the brexiteers a trade deal with the uk is utopia, regardless of the concquences

An Ciarraioch

Now that May's crisis has passed for now, she has dropped the early recess idea.

Infini

flutered wrote: »

it is going to take a sismic shift to remove forty years of brexit indoctorination

The term would be "Pride before the fall". Their own arrogance and shortsightedness and the economic damage inflicted on themselves will be a lesson for a long time in why idiotic stupidity should have no place in politics.

Also expecting a huge amount of "it's happening" memes should a Hard Brexit happen as the sheer irony of that wont be lost on anyone!

FrancieBrady

Realistically, what can Remainers do now that the only solutions to the Irish border issue is blocked?
How do they overturn that?

sdanseo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Realistically, what can Remainers do now that the only solutions to the Irish border issue is blocked?
How do they overturn that?

Can we back Scottish independence, then raise the EU super army to liberate NI? Sure it'll be a £11bn-a-year pain in the ass until we install some corrupt politicians of our own to sell its planning rights to the highest bidder, but at least then it'll turn a profit.

On a less cyncial note, SF and DUP need to step up and get back in the game, because London are far too distracted now to care. Scotland and NI are on the verge of being dragged kicking and screaming out of the EU, and the Scottish are the only one of the two with a functioning devlolved government.

devnull

Never thought I would agree with Michael Heseltine in my life, but speaking a huge amount of sense of Sky News now and calling all of the Brexiteers out for what they are.

As for the vote no surprise that it went the way they are, the Tory spineless MPs care more about keeping in power than the country, a bunch of rich boys who will be hit by it the leas.

Infini

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Realistically, what can Remainers do now that the only solutions to the Irish border issue is blocked?
How do they overturn that?

Has to clear the lords though to be fair so there's no guarantee yet that it's their final position though all the sign's are pointing towards "Get out of Dodge".

Even if the remainer's fail right now what they need to start doing is organising a proper movement against the serious delusions and utter contemptable lies that have been propagated by the leave side. They not only cheated but lied and the more idiotic fools who voted for this wont listen until they're seeing their savings losing value and their countries place in the world declining because the deigned to believe these subversive idiot's to begin with. They also need a bit of humbling and realisation that it's their own arrogance and unwillingless to think thing's through properly that caused this to begin with.

J Mysterio

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Now that May's crisis has passed for now, she has dropped the early recess idea.

Probably the outrage helped, what a scandalous suggestion. I noted she was called a coward by the SDLP.

FrancieBrady

Infini wrote: »

Has to clear the lords though to be fair so there's no guarantee yet that it's their final position though all the sign's are pointing towards "Get out of Dodge".

Even if the remainer's fail right now what they need to start doing is organising a proper movement against the serious delusions and utter contemptable lies that have been propagated by the leave side. They not only cheated but lied and the more idiotic fools who voted for this wont listen until they're seeing their savings losing value and their countries place in the world declining because the deigned to believe these subversive idiot's to begin with. They also need a bit of humbling and realisation that it's their own arrogance and unwillingless to think thing's through properly that caused this to begin with.

I said 'realistically'

ArmaniJeanss

Slightly less Tory Rebels than last night, 12 in total. The old reliables like Soubrey and Ken Clarke obviously.

5 against Labour this time, same 4 as last night plus one other.
Edit:
Conservative.
Heidi Allen
Guto Bebb
Ken Clarke
Jonathan Djanogly
Dominic Grieve
Stephen Hammond
Philip Lee
Nicky Morgan
Bob Neill
Antoinette Sandbach
Anna Soubry
Sarah Wollaston

Labour
Frank Field,
Kate Hoey,
John Mann,
Graham Stringe,
Kelvin Hopkins (curr susp)

judeboy101

kowtow wrote: »

I'd say the Govt. was saved by Labour Leavers there rather than Tory Whips.

Was that wench Kate hoey among them? Worlds only marxist orangewoman.

Taytoland

Taytoland wrote: »

You can almost smell the freedom from here.

Hmmm, yes in a sort of way i suppose. ‘Freedom’ for Northern Ireland farmers to rediscover how transhumance operates, because thats the level the NI agricultural economy will probably operate after a few years without EU farm payments, for any thats left in business by then that is.

J Mysterio

devnull wrote: »

Never thought I would agree with Michael Heseltine in my life, but speaking a huge amount of sense of Sky News now and calling all of the Brexiteers out for what they are.

He's been on point all along.

June 2016

Mar 2017

flatty

I'm really really disappointed.
Fcuking cowards the lot of them.

trellheim

Robert Peston tweeting that the labour brexiteers may have lost Labour a chance at a G.E.

( absolutely mental stuff )

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1019291556157804547

flutered

flatty wrote: »

I'm really really disappointed.
Fcuking cowards the lot of them.

with the way things have been going, it is foolish to expect anything else

trellheim

Followup - reinforce

https://twitter.com/nicholaswatt/status/1019277905002672128

This is what you founder on is it , that being in a Customs Union is something you have principles on ?

Edit : folks I am at a loss as to what the whole Chequers thing and yesterday and today was for unless its a fairly crazy "bet-it-all, the EU will cave" negotiating strategy from the Olly Robbins space cadet school

What am I missing here or is it just simply the Conservative party above all else ( Although Labour win no favours here either )

ok yes a few other tweeters coming in along the same lines.... its gonna force the EU to compromise if they want a deal done under this , its still all about negotiating

however - they have to stay in the EU medicines - they lost 305 301 !

Dyr

What's really funny about all this is the Tories are so utterly at odds with themselves that they have made the EU appear unified and in accord on a major issue

Quite the achievement because I reckon if the parliamentary maths had been favorable to them they could have made the EU blink first

Dyr

trellheim wrote: »

Robert Peston tweeting that the labour brexiteers may have lost Labour a chance at a G.E.

( absolutely mental stuff )

https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1019291556157804547

How that headbanger Hoey wasn't drummed out of the party years ago is beyond me, she's so Tory, she makes Peter Mandelson look like Ken Livingston