Bfl mule vs llynn/belclare scotch mule

Inchilad

Hav flock of swale /scotch ewes on hill farm ive rented.thing is in the process of buyin place with better ground(still not fantastic but grass).my plan is to either buy a bfl or llynn or belclare ram and cross wit the scotch for replacements.anyone any opinions of experience on doing same?from what im hearing from talkin to few lads is llyns are easier kept sheep than belclare and would make a hardier cross,better feet and dont eat as much.any truth to this?

nagshead

I think a good lleyn ram would beat a good ram of any other breed in terms of profitability any day. I would love to see Teagasc run a trial using different breeds of ewes say mule , Lleyn and Suffolk x or Texel x all on the same farm with the same management with the aim being to find out which type of ewe produced the most kgs of deadweight sold per hectare with the least cost assuming that the cost of producing the kgs of deadweight would include labour which I feel farmers and even Teagasc can fool themselves about too often, ie they dont put enough value on their time. Ive no doubts the Lleyn ewe would win hands down . From my own experience the best Lleyn x ewe is from a Lleyn ram crossed to a bigger fleshier type of ewe like a Borris ewe or Texel/suffolk x ewe.

charolais0153

nagshead wrote: »

I think a good lleyn ram would beat a good ram of any other breed in terms of profitability any day. I would love to see Teagasc run a trial using different breeds of ewes say mule , Lleyn and Suffolk x or Texel x all on the same farm with the same management with the aim being to find out which type of ewe produced the most kgs of deadweight sold per hectare with the least cost assuming that the cost of producing the kgs of deadweight would include labour which I feel farmers and even Teagasc can fool themselves about too often, ie they dont put enough value on their time. Ive no doubts the Lleyn ewe would win hands down . From my own experience the best Lleyn x ewe is from a Lleyn ram crossed to a bigger fleshier type of ewe like a Borris ewe or Texel/suffolk x ewe.

Should always be measured in euros ....deadweight is only suiting lleyn coa she wont have lambs fit when price is high....labour is difficult to measire in a spot like teagasc because of the amount of people working there.


Even if they done that triall,peopel would be saying that they used bad llyens,bad mules etc.. Unfeasable imo

Green farmer

Well it would be better use of resources, then the 3-5 years their wasting of tax payers money at the moment finding out if a nz Suffolk is better then an Irish Suffolk. I think we all know the answer to that one with the genetic improvements they’ve been making in nz for the last 30 years.
Separately,
Even though I like and run Lleyns, I don’t know how much they’d improve your black face mountain ewe. I think as mentioned above they work best crossing with the bigger lowland ewe. Maybe your ewes would give higher scanning when moved to the lowlands without you doing anything ?

charolais0153

Green farmer wrote: »

Well it would be better use of resources, then the 3-5 years their wasting of tax payers money at the moment finding out if a nz Suffolk is better then an Irish Suffolk. I think we all know the answer to that one with the genetic improvements they’ve been making in nz for the last 30 years.
Separately,
Even though I like and run Lleyns, I don’t know how much they’d improve your black face mountain ewe. I think as mentioned above they work best crossing with the bigger lowland ewe. Maybe your ewes would give higher scanning when moved to the lowlands without you doing anything ?

I dont know what they can go looking at now...will probably be looking at heritability of traits like growth rates and tendency to go lame and mastitis etc. Bigger difference within breeds than beyween them so no point comparing them in that sense imo

nagshead

charolais0153 wrote: »

Should always be measured in euros ....deadweight is only suiting lleyn coa she wont have lambs fit when price is high....labour is difficult to measire in a spot like teagasc because of the amount of people working there.


Even if they done that triall,peopel would be saying that they used bad llyens,bad mules etc.. Unfeasable imo

Your right i agree I should have explained it a bit better , What I was trying to say was that I feel the Llyen ewe will outperform other ewe types in a simple input/output calculation if the cost of labour is properly accounted for ,In other words she will be more profitable which at the end of the day is what its all about and will be more important in the future when the money from Europe starts to dry up.

Green farmer

charolais0153 wrote: »

I dont know what they can go looking at now...will probably be looking at heritability of traits like growth rates and tendency to go lame and mastitis etc. Bigger difference within breeds than beyween them so no point comparing them in that sense imo

Maybe a better use of resources might have been comparing a flock of high index nz Romney’s ewes (because that’s what best of nz has to offer ) against something like the belclare (that they developed) and maybe the Lleyns. Put them all to the same rams and see what gets on the best. Let farmers know what maternal sheep perform the best in a lowland setup, as their campus is on a lowland farm.

sheepfarmer92

Teagasc seem to be stuck on the same aul system of belclare cross ewes 5 to the acre high input high output, lots of labour indoor lambing, paddocks bla bla bla, think they need to look at new zealand systems more

Green farmer

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Teagasc seem to be stuck on the same aul system of belclare cross ewes 5 to the acre high input high output, lots of labour indoor lambing, paddocks bla bla bla, think they need to look at new zealand systems more

Exactly, so they picked the nz Suffolk, a breed that’s only used as a terminal sire in nz and ignored the most popular breed of sheep in nz and the world, the Romney.

charolais0153

sheepfarmer92 wrote: »

Teagasc seem to be stuck on the same aul system of belclare cross ewes 5 to the acre high input high output, lots of labour indoor lambing, paddocks bla bla bla, think they need to look at new zealand systems more

Only way for small farmers to survive is with high input/output.
Tbh not enough land available for low enough price to be very extensive unless you inherit it.

joe35

The llyen cross with a horned ewe leaves a small lamb both for breading and fattening. I baught a few lanarks last year and was asking theese questions in other links.
Think i'm gonna buy a BFL this year to run with them. They were run with a cheviot last year and some nice lambs out of them but want to breed a few mules now.
Would love if someone had a difinitive answer but think the all have pros and cons.

On another note anyone know were to get a good BFL

Lambman

What part you in joe35

charolais0153

joe35 wrote: »

The llyen cross with a horned ewe leaves a small lamb both for breading and fattening. I baught a few lanarks last year and was asking theese questions in other links.
Think i'm gonna buy a BFL this year to run with them. They were run with a cheviot last year and some nice lambs out of them but want to breed a few mules now.
Would love if someone had a difinitive answer but think the all have pros and cons.

On another note anyone know were to get a good BFL

They generally bought up north at ballymena mart iirc

Ard_MC

joe35 wrote: »

The llyen cross with a horned ewe leaves a small lamb both for breading and fattening. I baught a few lanarks last year and was asking theese questions in other links.
Think i'm gonna buy a BFL this year to run with them. They were run with a cheviot last year and some nice lambs out of them but want to breed a few mules now.
Would love if someone had a difinitive answer but think the all have pros and cons.

On another note anyone know were to get a good BFL

Sale in Ballinrobe. I think the same day as the first mule sale.

joe35

Lambman wrote: »

What part you in joe35

North east

Lambman

Know a breeder in Donegal a neighbour bought 1 off he's a good sheep... came from Malin head Suffolks herd they run a purebred BFL herd aswell...

joe35

Thanks lambman

OneMan37

nagshead wrote: »

I think a good lleyn ram would beat a good ram of any other breed in terms of profitability any day. I would love to see Teagasc run a trial using different breeds of ewes say mule , Lleyn and Suffolk x or Texel x all on the same farm with the same management with the aim being to find out which type of ewe produced the most kgs of deadweight sold per hectare with the least cost assuming that the cost of producing the kgs of deadweight would include labour which I feel farmers and even Teagasc can fool themselves about too often, ie they dont put enough value on their time. Ive no doubts the Lleyn ewe would win hands down . From my own experience the best Lleyn x ewe is from a Lleyn ram crossed to a bigger fleshier type of ewe like a Borris ewe or Texel/suffolk x ewe.

Not a complete study but though you might find this study helpful.

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/publications/2010/IrishBreedComparisonStudies.pdf

Inchilad

Ended up buying a bfl ram.really happy with the lambs so far.growing well and lovely shape.

razor8

Any pictures?