Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

troyzer

CatFromHue wrote: »

It'll be a bit clearer tomorrow but the Premiership isn't mega competitive.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/league-tables/gallagher-premiership-league-table/

It'll prob look like 1 and 2 on 47 pts, 3 on 36/37 pts, and 4 on 26/28

So there'll prob be 20 pts between 1st and 4th which is pretty similar to the Pro14.

Yeah but there's only 8 points between European qualification and relegation. The difference between Europe and bottom in the Pro14 is 20 points in both conferences and there is no relegation. It's far more interesting to watch the bottom end than the Pro14.

Dog Botherer

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah but there's only 8 points between European qualification and relegation. The difference between Europe and bottom in the Pro14 is 20 points in both conferences and there is no relegation. It's far more interesting to watch the bottom end than the Pro14.

They'll ringfence the Premiership before they let a massive club like Leicester or Bath go down imo. There's just too much money involved.

I can see them scrapping relegation as soon as they find another team to bring it to 14 (the 12 Premiership sides + London Irish make up the shareholders so one more is needed) or if they find a way to make a schedule for 13 teams to work. The Premiership as it exists now simply isn't fit for purpose. It's hemorrhaging money, the players are exhausted and unhappy, bar Saracens English teams are underperforming in Europe, and not enough players are being developed for the national side.

troyzer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Yeah but there's only 8 points between European qualification and relegation. The difference between Europe and bottom in the Pro14 is 20 points in both conferences and there is no relegation. It's far more interesting to watch the bottom end than the Pro14.

They'll ringfence the Premiership before they let a massive club like Leicester or Bath go down imo. There's just too much money involved.

I can see them scrapping relegation as soon as they find another team to bring it to 14 (the 12 Premiership sides + London Irish make up the shareholders so one more is needed) or if they find a way to make a schedule for 13 teams to work. The Premiership as it exists now simply isn't fit for purpose. It's hemorrhaging money, the players are exhausted and unhappy, bar Saracens English teams are underperforming in Europe, and not enough players are being developed for the national side.

Big teams have gone down before, look at Harlequins.

I'm not disputing that the Premiership is badly run and unsustainable but it is a more compelling competition and I think they have the right idea of leveraging their new part owners' global media experience to try and expand the audience.

It's just a question of whether or not they'll run out of money before then or not.

I think a lot will be lost if they do abolish relegation and promotion. We'd never see an Exeter story again or la Rochelle in the case of France.

CatFromHue

I agree that there's a problem at the bottom of the Pro14.

The league has very good teams, good teams, ok teams, but more bad teams than other leagues. Dragons, Zebre, and The Kings are bad teams where other leagues might only have one out and out bad team.

Connacht used to be in that category as did Treviso and both have climbed out of it, granted Treviso were an ok to good team when they joined the league originally.

It's one of my issues with taking in more developmental teams to the league, every now and again a USA or Georgian team is a possible new team, but we can't have another bad team in the league.

thomond2006

Scarlets' decline has hurt conference B badly. Conference A is competitive.

salmocab

thomond2006 wrote: »

Scarlets' decline has hurt conference B badly. Conference A is competitive.

Hopefully they redraw the conferences next summer but the amount of home games limits that because if you were one down this season you have to get it back next year.

b.gud

salmocab wrote: »

Hopefully they redraw the conferences next summer but the amount of home games limits that because if you were one down this season you have to get it back next year.

They have already said they will be redrawing. Conference's are going to be in 2 year cycles so that over a 2 season period you will play all the teams in the other conference home and away. Eg last year Connacht had to play Scarlets away and this year they got them at home

troyzer

b.gud wrote: »

salmocab wrote: »

Hopefully they redraw the conferences next summer but the amount of home games limits that because if you were one down this season you have to get it back next year.

They have already said they will be redrawing. Conference's are going to be in 2 year cycles so that over a 2 season period you will play all the teams in the other conference home and away. Eg last year Connacht had to play Scarlets away and this year they got them at home

What would a balanced conference system look like?

You'd have to put teams in pots I suppose.

If the tables were frozen today it would look something like this:

Pot 1: Leinster, Glasgow.
Pot 2: Ulster, Connacht.
Pot 3. Munster, Scarlets.
Pot 4. Ospreys, Treviso.
Pot 5. Blues, Edinburgh.
Pot 6. Cheetahs, Dragons.
Pot 7. Kings, Zebre.

I'm not sure how that would definitely avoid the same lopsided system we already have.

AdamD

This is the first season this has ever happened, stop over reacting.

PMC83

Are we looking at a pro16 next year? Have heard rumblings of currie cup teams, but fingers crossed fro 2 decent super rugby sides

salmocab

PMC83 wrote: »

Are we looking at a pro16 next year? Have heard rumblings of currie cup teams, but fingers crossed fro 2 decent super rugby sides

Well they can’t enter two decent teams now so I doubt they can get 4.
I don’t think the SA thing is going to last.

PMC83

salmocab wrote: »

Well they can’t enter two decent teams now so I doubt they can get 4.
I don’t think the SA thing is going to last.

Any of the Bulls/Sharks/Rhinos or Stormers would be a welcome addition. Even the Cheetahs could have been pretty good one, had the transfer to the Pro 14 been move been announced sooner they would have kept their stronger players.

ScrubsfanChris

Edinburgh doing a favour for Munster/Connacht at the moment. Beating Gasgow 16-3 with three minutes left.

Edit: Finished 8-16 no match points for Glasgow

molloyjh

Top 6 in the Pro14 are on 49, 41, 36, 35, 33, 31.

Top 6 in the Prem are on 47, 42, 32, 36, 24, 24.

Top 6 in the T14 are on 43, 40, 37, 36, 36, 34.

Given that the T14 have their home and away sides I think the P14 compares very favourably to the other leagues competitively. And given the lack of real competition in the top half of the Premiership plus their current form in Europe it seems pretty clear that the Premiership is the least competitive league this season.

Dubinusa

Currie cup sides would damage the league imo.
There's enough poor sides in the league, why add more?
Scarlets have had a mare. I didn't see that coming. I knew they would be less formidable, but now they are looking lost and just rudderless.
But on the positive side, Connacht are very much improved and Edinburgh look like they are getting stronger. Ulster are headed in the right direction and Glasgow are a good side. Benetton have been decent and will hopefully continue to improve.
There are sides that are close to being quality and could be over the next couple of seasons.
Unfortunately, Zebre appear to be lost and the Dragons need an overhaul. Both Saffer sides are poor and 50% of the league is quite poor.
I think the money issue is a factor as rugby is not a big sport in Italy and saffer teams Can't hold on to decent players.

Burkie1203

Dubinusa wrote: »

Currie cup sides would damage the league imo.
There's enough poor sides in the league, why add more?
Scarlets have had a mare. I didn't see that coming. I knew they would be less formidable, but now they are looking lost and just rudderless.
But on the positive side, Connacht are very much improved and Edinburgh look like they are getting stronger. Ulster are headed in the right direction and Glasgow are a good side. Benetton have been decent and will hopefully continue to improve.
There are sides that are close to being quality and could be over the next couple of seasons.
Unfortunately, Zebre appear to be lost and the Dragons need an overhaul. Both Saffer sides are poor and 50% of the league is quite poor.
I think the money issue is a factor as rugby is not a big sport in Italy and saffer teams Can't hold on to decent players.

As it stands there is a real battle to get just one welsh side into the champions cup next season

Connacht have to capitalise now. They have a good few very winnable games coming up and win v Munster and Ospreys will go a long way towards that

yerrahbah

Munster only 2 points behind Glasgow now,

Next week Glasgow travel to an impressive Benetton while Munster go to Connacht.

If Glasgow were to lose, a win for Connacht in Galway would really make things interesting at the top

Conference A as it stands

Glasgow 41
Munster 39
Connacht 36
Ospreys 32
Cardiff 32

Great battle for 2nd and 3rd in Conference B also

Leinster 49
Ulster 33
Benetton 31
Scarlets 30
Edinburgh 30

Buer

I wonder how the WRU are feeling about Pivac right now.

Akrasia

yerrahbah wrote: »

Munster only 2 points behind Glasgow now,

Next week Glasgow travel to an impressive Benetton while Munster go to Connacht.

If Glasgow were to lose, a win for Connacht in Galway would really make things interesting at the top

Conference A as it stands

Glasgow 41
Munster 39
Connacht 36
Ospreys 32
Cardiff 32

Great battle for 2nd and 3rd in Conference B also

Leinster 49
Ulster 33
Benetton 31
Scarlets 30
Edinburgh 30

Ospreys have a game at hand too, Today, away against the dragons so that's probably a 4 pointer. which will leave them equal with connacht and 3 behind Munster.

PMC83

Treviso in a playoff spot, delighted and hope they stay there!

Burkie1203

Dragons 13-6 Ospreys at ht

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Dragons 13-6 Ospreys at ht

20-9 now after 54

Ospreys are brutal so far

MarinersBlues

Burkie1203 wrote: »

20-9 now after 54

Ospreys are brutal so far

They were poor against Scarlets as well, very lucky to get the win there.

Akrasia

MarinersBlues wrote: »

They were poor against Scarlets as well, very lucky to get the win there.

They're starting to look dangerous now. Just stopped there by some huge tackles by the dragons

Akrasia

In under the sticks. 1 point game now

degsie

OSP ahead!

Burkie1203

23-22. Big last 6 mins

Akrasia

Good result for Munster and Connacht.

Dubinusa

Jaysus, Ospreys are awful. Scarlets are swan diving.
Cardiff may be the best Welch club.
Edinburgh will be a tough side. They are playing very well. Well coached side imo.

molloyjh

So at the start of 2019 there are only Zebre and Dragons who aren’t in with a shout of qualifying for Europe next season. That’s 10 teams all within 4 points or so of meritocratic qualification with a total of 19 points separating them all. And only 1 team (Leinster) sitting comfortably at the top of their conference. Every other spot is very much up for grabs.

If we compare leagues, assuming teams within a win of a HEC place in each league are “in contention” for Europe 19/20 and look at the teams currently occupying the knock out places in 18/19.

League|European Contention 19/20|>= 50% Win Rate|European KOs 18/19
Pro 14|10|10|5
Premiership|10|3|1
Top 14|8|7|2


Even though there are 10 teams in contention in both the P14 and Premiership, there’s only 19 points separating the teams in the P14 compared to 24 in the Premiership.

The P14 is the most competitive league in the HEC as it stands and is probably the most competitive league in itself this season so far too. It may have its detractors, but this league has a hell of a lot going for it that doesn’t get the attention it should IMO.

Some Yoke

this may have been asked already but woul Brexitd have an impact on the pro 14? Uk/ROI sides

troyzer

Some Yoke wrote: »

this may have been asked already but woul Brexitd have an impact on the pro 14? Uk/ROI sides

The short answer is we don't know yet.

But it's possible.

thomond2006

In Conference A, second plays third and fourth plays fifth. Cardiff in fifth trail Munster in second by 7 points. Glasgow have a tricky trip to Benetton and may need to rotate their squad before Europe. There could be a lot of movement in Conference A this weekend.

In Conference B, Scarlets and Edinburgh host Dragons and Kings respectively so a TBP win is likely. Ulster could drop as far as fifth if they lose at the RDS.

The Cheetahs and Kings have their derbies in hand to be played this month so they will have an opportunity to climb from the bottom of the table.

Burkie1203

Rumours that Ken Owens will start at 8 for scarlets due to injuries.

Wonder if they persist with Parkes at 10 too

sydthebeat

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Rumours that Ken Owens will start at 8 for scarlets due to injuries.

Wonder if they persist with Parkes at 10 too

seriously???

how have they not got academy / sub academy players to draw from?

Buer

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Wonder if they persist with Parkes at 10 too

That's a complete farce. You'd really have to question Pivac on that selection. They have a promising young outhalf who has a significant number of starts for them sitting on the bench. Not only that but they're breaking up the best centre partnership in Wales to accommodate it.

Squidgy Black

Buer wrote: »

That's a complete farce. You'd really have to question Pivac on that selection. They have a promising young outhalf who has a significant number of starts for them sitting on the bench. Not only that but they're breaking up the best centre partnership in Wales to accommodate it.

It'd be hard not to be furious with Pivac as a Scarlets fan, since it was announced he was the Wales successor, it's moved from future planning with Scarlets to just get them over the line. And the performances have dropped off a cliff.

Buer

Squidgy Black wrote: »

It'd be hard not to be furious with Pivac as a Scarlets fan, since it was announced he was the Wales successor, it's moved from future planning with Scarlets to just get them over the line. And the performances have dropped off a cliff.

I wonder if he's already future planning for Wales, trying Parkes at 10 to allow him extra flexibility in the back line and off the bench. I cannot see any logic in throwing an excellent centre in at outhalf when there's a perfectly good outhalf available. It brings nothing to the team whatsoever.

We always knew this season was going to be tough for them with their injuries but these selections just make a farce of things. If the Pro14 was stronger overall at the moment, they'd be in real trouble for European qualification.

Clegg

Samu Manoa has gone AWOL on Cardiff. Asked for time off in December to go back to the States, but hasn't returned despite the club asking him to.

Tbh I had no idea he even played for them. Only made 4 appearances this season.

Squidgy Black

Clegg wrote: »

Samu Manoa has gone AWOL on Cardiff. Asked for time off in December to go back to the States, but hasn't returned despite the club asking him to.

Tbh I had no idea he even played for them. Only made 4 appearances this season.

He's been fairly poor for them, but apparently he had a lot of personal issues (including a family death) while at Toulon, and wasn't allowed to return home during his contract due to them being so stringent.

There's talk of him being released already.

Dog Botherer

Owens confirmed at 8 for Scarlets, Parks moves back to 12 though.

https://twitter.com/scarlets_rugby/status/1081175539451396096

FACECUTTR

Squidgy Black wrote: »

He's been fairly poor for them, but apparently he had a lot of personal issues (including a family death) while at Toulon, and wasn't allowed to return home during his contract due to them being so stringent.

There's talk of him being released already.

He has been released on compassionate grounds.

Buer

Dog Botherer wrote: »

Owens confirmed at 8 for Scarlets, Parks moves back to 12 though.

https://twitter.com/scarlets_rugby/status/1081175539451396096

And a young back rower sitting on the bench. Great message for him.

Thrashssacre

Benetton and Glasgow 7-7 with almost half an hour gone in Italy, could be interesting

Synode

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Benetton and Glasgow 7-7 with almost half an hour gone in Italy, could be interesting

What channel is it on. Can't find it on Eir

Thrashssacre

Synode wrote: »

What channel is it on. Can't find it on Eir

Premier sport 2

12 -14 at half time to Glasgow

Synode

Thrashssacre wrote: »

Premier sport 2

12 -14 at half time to Glasgow

Damn, don't think I can get that on Eir

Thrashssacre

Benetton win 20-17 Glasgow miss a penalty late on. Dreadful few weeks for Glasgow, delighted for Benetton.

Bridge93

Treviso up to second

Dubinusa

I think Glasgow have lost 3 on the trot. They may be in trouble.
Pretty shocking