Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Know this rumour has been knocking about for a while and it's all speculation but interesting all the same.

Would these teams leave Super Rugby altogether? Or play a 2nd team in Pro16 say?

Also, seems to suggest league would revert to one league with 16 teams rather than 2 conferences of 8. Would solve issue of conferences not being fully equal some seasons but had feeling that Pro14 were committed to conferences.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/pro14-poised-become-pro16-super-15906502.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I'd be shocked if the Pro14 accepted ****ty, second tier sides.

This article seems to mostly just be a rumour wrap up.

Solving a big problem

It would also allow PRO14 bosses to address one of the major issues with the competition.

There is consistent criticism over the number of matches that are played out between second string sides, with the star names missing.

With 21 regular season fixtures, several games have to be played in international periods, which means teams being hard hit by Test call-ups.

Almost counter-intuitively, increasing to 16 sides would enable that problem to be addressed.

You would be able to have one league, with teams playing each other home or away, giving 15 fixtures.

Add in three return derbies and you would have a regular season total of 18 games, which would enable pretty much every match to be played outside of the Test window.

This bit is interesting, sounds like wild speculation though.

Eod100

troyzer wrote: »

I'd be shocked if the Pro14 accepted ****ty, second tier sides.

This article seems to mostly just be a rumour wrap up.




This bit is interesting, sounds like wild speculation though.

Yeah me too but seems one thing for Cheetahs and Southern Kings to leave SR, (weren't they cut?) than two of Bulls, Stormers or Sharks leaving. Unless SR are planning another downsizing.

Yeah the bit about fixtures comes across as is issue with the competition more than anything. Since it's only speculation, I doubt the format has been looked into that much tbh.

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah me too but seems one thing for Cheetahs and Southern Kings to leave SR, (weren't they cut?) than two of Bulls, Stormers or Sharks leaving. Unless SR are planning another downsizing.

Yeah the bit about fixtures comes across as is issue with the competition more than anything. Since it's only speculation, I doubt the format has been looked into that much tbh.

The Cheetahs and Kings were cut, yeah.

There is a LOT of SANZAAR politics going on in the background. There's more money and a more broadcaster/fan friendly schedule if South Africa look North. They're also pissed off at the current competition format in Super Rugby.

thomond2006

Let's invest in a time machine and add both 2010 Super Rugby finalists to the Pro14.

Zane Kirchner, Gerhard van den Heever, Jaco Pretorius, Wynand Olivier, Francois Hougaard, Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez,
Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegmann, Victor Matfield (capt), Danie Rossouw, Werner Kruger, Gary Botha, Gurthro
Steenkamp.

15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Juan De Jongh, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Dewaldt Duvenage,
8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Francois Louw, 6 Schalk Burger (capt), 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Adriaan Fondse, 3 Brok Harris, 2 Tiaan Liebenberg, 1 Wicus Blaauw.

troyzer

thomond2006 wrote: »

Let's invest in a time machine and add both 2010 Super Rugby finalists to the Pro14.

Zane Kirchner, Gerhard van den Heever, Jaco Pretorius, Wynand Olivier, Francois Hougaard, Morné Steyn, Fourie du Preez,
Pierre Spies, Dewald Potgieter, Deon Stegmann, Victor Matfield (capt), Danie Rossouw, Werner Kruger, Gary Botha, Gurthr’ Steenkamp.

15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Jaque Fourie, 12 Juan De Jongh, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Peter Grant, 9 Dewaldt Duvenage,
8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Francois Louw, 6 Schalk Burger (capt), 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Adriaan Fondse, 3 Brok Harris, 2 Tiaan Liebenberg, 1 Wicus Blaauw.

Ugh.

thomond2006

You would be able to have one league, with teams playing each other home or away, giving 15 fixtures.

Add in three return derbies and you would have a regular season total of 18 games, which would enable pretty much every match to be played outside of the Test window.

Sign me up.

Eod100

troyzer wrote: »

The Cheetahs and Kings were cut, yeah.

There is a LOT of SANZAAR politics going on in the background. There's more money and a more broadcaster/fan friendly schedule if South Africa look North. They're also pissed off at the current competition format in Super Rugby.

Yeah time-zone helps plus being able to travel for a block of matches over a month rather than travelling back and forth to Aus and NZ. Interesting to see if it comes about but won't be today or tomorrow that's for sure.

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah time-zone helps plus being able to travel for a block of matches over a month rather than travelling back and forth to Aus and NZ. Interesting to see if it comes about but won't be today or tomorrow that's for sure.

It would actually need to happen fairly soon. The current SANZAAR deal is up at the end of the next Super Rugby season.

Eod100

troyzer wrote: »

It would actually need to happen fairly soon. The current SANZAAR deal is up at the end of the next Super Rugby season.

Yeah article mentions 2020/2021 season so guess that matches up.

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah article mentions 2020/2021 season so guess that matches up.

I wonder what the rest of SANZAAR would do if the South African teams shagged off.

Cookiemunster

thomond2006 wrote: »

Sign me up.

So the Irish teams get to flog each other to death in the interpros, while the Scots play the Italians home and away, Cardiff and Scarlets play Dragons and the new North Wales team and the two new Super Rugby teams play Cheetahs and Kings? That's even more unbalanced that the current format.

thomond2006

Cookiemunster wrote: »

So the Irish teams get to flog each other to death in the interpros, while the Scots play the Italians home and away, Cardiff and Scarlets play Dragons and the new North Wales team and the two new Super Rugby teams play Cheetahs and Kings? That's even more unbalanced that the current format.

That would have to be worked out, certainly.
Cutting games is a plus for me. There's too many to watch between the provinces and Ireland.

Of course that doesn't solve everything. The 10 team Magners League had the same number of games.

Eod100

troyzer wrote: »

I wonder what the rest of SANZAAR would do if the South African teams shagged off.

Think that there was rumblings that they would be downsizing anyways by 2 or 3 teams?

troyzer

Eod100 wrote: »

Think that there was rumblings that they would be downsizing anyways by 2 or 3 teams?

But losing the entire South African market?

sydthebeat

troyzer wrote: »

But losing the entire South African market?

what market?

attendance is falling drastically for some teams since 2015 .. stormers down 30%, bulls down 64%... lions and sharks slightly down.

viewing figures remain pretty high but is also on a downward trend... so i assume the theory is games at more accessible times would increase the viewership again


then again, this may be all just posturing by SA while the future of Super rugby is being negotiated currently

troyzer

sydthebeat wrote: »

what market?

attendance is falling drastically for some teams since 2015 .. stormers down 30%, bulls down 64%... lions and sharks slightly down.

viewing figures remain pretty high but is also on a downward trend... so i assume the theory is games at more accessible times would increase the viewership again


then again, this may be all just posturing by SA while the future of Super rugby is being negotiated currently

Here, enough of you and your facts.

thomond2006

The Cheetahs are almost certainly out after last night. Connacht aside, Cardiff are likely to pick up a TBP win against the Kings and go 11 clear of the Cheetahs. Plus Cheetahs travel to Glasgow in the next round.

Eod100

5-0 win for Connacht would be big result. Bring them to 47. Would leave Ospreys on 39.

Burkie1203

Benetton 3-3 Embra at HT

Tigerandahalf

Been impressed with Shane Delahunt any time I have seen him. His darts are on the money today in that wind.

Burkie1203

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Benetton 3-3 Embra at HT

8-10 Embra now

Burkie1203

Benetton 15-10 Embra

10 to go

thomond2006

Benetton lead 15-10.

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Benetton lead 15-10.

Would be big result if it finishes like that.

nordydan

18-10 so no LBP for Edinburgh. Even better for Ulster

thomond2006

Huge win. Benetton's run-in is rotten so they need points in hand.

Burkie1203

Benetton 50
Ulster 44 *
Embra 42
Scarlets 41 *

* 1 game in hand.

Munster could do Ulster a huge favour today

Eod100

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Benetton 50
Ulster 44 *
Embra 42
Scarlets 41 *

* 1 game in hand.

Munster could do Ulster a huge favour today

Yup and would expect Ulster to beat Dragons tomorrow

thomond2006

Glasgow have the TBP secured already. 3-28 in the first half.

thomond2006

Glasgow (61): Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

Munster (58): Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

Cardiff (47): Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

Connacht (47): Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Cardiff (H), Possible ECC SF, Munster (A)

Ospreys (39): Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

Cheetahs (36): Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)

Cheetahs will eliminated once they are dispatched as expected by Glasgow. Ospreys are in freefall but they should remain in the hunt with the hapless Dragons travelling to Swansea next.

It's tough to call between Connacht and Cardiff as their remaining fixtures look similar in overall difficulty.

Former Former

You'd have to think beating Cardiff in Galway will seal third spot for Connacht.

The Ospreys are gone. Whatever is happening there won't be fixed this season.

Tigerandahalf

Some hit on Kyle Godwin in that game today. An utter bone shaker. Hope the guy is ok as he didn't see it coming and the guy caught him at the worst angle.

ClanofLams

thomond2006 wrote: »

Glasgow (61): Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

Munster (58): Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

Cardiff (47): Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

Connacht (47): Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Cardiff (H), Possible ECC SF, Munster (A)

Ospreys (39): Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

Cheetahs (36): Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)

Cheetahs will eliminated once they are dispatched as expected by Glasgow. Ospreys are in freefall but they should remain in the hunt with the hapless Dragons travelling to Swansea next.

It's tough to call between Connacht and Cardiff as their remaining fixtures look similar in overall difficulty.

Biased obviously but would have to think Connacht are favourites. Would expect them to be favourites to beat Benetton at home, Zebre away and Cardiff at home. Whereas think Cardiff will only be marginal favourites or even a toss up against Scarlets who have played better the last couple of weeks and are in a dogfight for Europe and obviously under dogs against Munster.

Last round definitely favours Cardiff though so hopefully it’s done at that stage.

Heymans

Edit

Heymans

Burkie1203 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1014491690353201152?s=19

Any news on this happening next season?

b.gud

thomond2006 wrote: »

Glasgow (61): Cheetahs (H), HCC QF, Ulster (H), Leinster (A), Possible HCC SF, Edinburgh (H)

Munster (58): Zebre (H), HCC QF, Cardiff (H), Benetton (A), Possible HCC SF, Connacht (H)

Cardiff (47): Scarlets (H), Munster (A), Connacht (A), Ospreys (H)

Connacht (47): Benetton (H), ECC QF, Zebre (A), Cardiff (H), Possible ECC SF, Munster (A)

Ospreys (39): Dragons (H), Cheetahs (A), Kings (A), Cardiff (A)

Cheetahs (36): Glasgow (A), Ospreys (H), Dragons (H), Kings (H)

Cheetahs will eliminated once they are dispatched as expected by Glasgow. Ospreys are in freefall but they should remain in the hunt with the hapless Dragons travelling to Swansea next.

It's tough to call between Connacht and Cardiff as their remaining fixtures look similar in overall difficulty.

I slight mistake in that, Connacht are currently in 3rd ahead of Cardiff on points difference

Eod100

Bit of a battle ahead for Champions Cup places. Its top 3 in each conference and 4th placed team with better pd. Not sure an extra place will come to Pro14 but doesn't look very likely.

its_phil

Eod100 wrote: »

Bit of a battle ahead for Champions Cup places. Its top 3 in each conference and 4th placed team with better pd. Not sure an extra place will come to Pro14 but doesn't look very likely.

4th place teams in a playoff against each other for last spot

Eod100

its_phil wrote: »

4th place teams in a playoff against each other for last spot

Used be but changed for this season's CC.

Current format below. Have a feeling it will be 4.

1) Champions Cup winner, if not already qualified.
2)European Rugby Challenge Cup winner, if not already qualified.
3) Challenge Cup losing finalist, if not already qualified.
4) Challenge Cup semi-finalist, if one has not already qualified (or the winner of a play-off between the semi-finalists, if both have not already qualified).
5) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Champions Cup winner.

Zzippy

Eod100 wrote: »

Used be but changed for this season's CC.

Current format below. Have a feeling it will be 4.

1) Champions Cup winner, if not already qualified.
2)European Rugby Challenge Cup winner, if not already qualified.
3) Challenge Cup losing finalist, if not already qualified.
4) Challenge Cup semi-finalist, if one has not already qualified (or the winner of a play-off between the semi-finalists, if both have not already qualified).
5) Highest ranked non-qualified club by virtue of league position from the same league as the Champions Cup winner.

That's the ECC criteria to determine the last allocated place. Within the Pro14 the 7th qualifying spot is determined by a playoff between the two 4th placed teams in each conference. Except in the case of 5 above, in which case both qualify.

Eod100

Zzippy wrote: »

That's the ECC criteria to determine the last allocated place. Within the Pro14 the 7th qualifying spot is determined by a playoff between the two 4th placed teams in each conference. Except in the case of 5 above, in which case both qualify.

Ah you're right getting mixed up!

thomond2006

Benetton (50): Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

Ulster (49): Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

Scarlets (45): Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)

Edinburgh (42): Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

Burkie1203

thomond2006 wrote: »

Benetton (50): Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

Ulster (49): Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

Scarlets (45): Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)

Edinburgh (42): Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

Scarlets v Embra is huge. A Scarlets win and Benetton would be as good as qualified with a few BPs as they have a guaranteed 5 pointer v Zebre

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Benetton (50): Connacht (A), Leinster (A), Munster (H), Zebre (A)

Ulster (49): Kings (H), HCC QF, Glasgow (A), Edinburgh (A), Possible HCC SF, Leinster (H)

Scarlets (45): Cardiff (A), Edinburgh (H), Zebre (H), Dragons (A)

Edinburgh (42): Leinster (H), HCC QF, Scarlets (A), Ulster (H), Possible HCC SF, Glasgow (A)

Scarlets with probably the best run-in but are 4/5 points behind Benetton and Ulster. Will be very close for CC places.

thomond2006

Edinburgh are done I think. They are seven points off third place and their run-in is difficult. They could easily fail to win another game this season.

It's very close between the top 3. Scarlets can easily make up the deficit.

Eod100

thomond2006 wrote: »

Edinburgh are done I think. They are seven points off third place and their run-in is difficult. They could easily fail to win another game this season.

It's very close between the top 3. Scarlets can easily make up the deficit.

Yeah think it's too much for Edinburgh to make up.

Interesting that Leinster are playing 3 of those 4 sides. Am sure there 2nd sides would be more than able to win those games.

Brewster

Cardiff v Scarlets is a big game for Ulster and Connacht. If Cardiff win, I fancy Ulster to do enough for 2nd place. If Scarlets win, they might sneak 2nd with Ulster to finish third in that scenario.

Rigor Mortis

Brewster wrote: »

Cardiff v Scarlets is a big game for Ulster and Connacht. If Cardiff win, I fancy Ulster to do enough for 2nd place. If Scarlets win, they might sneak 2nd with Ulster to finish third in that scenario.

You are assuming Benneton will be caught?

Zzippy

Rigor Mortis wrote: »

You are assuming Benneton will be caught?

Treviso will get 5 points against Zebre but not guaranteed anything else, with Connacht and Leinster away, and Munster coming possibly looking to seal a home semi-final.

Rigor Mortis

Zzippy wrote: »

Treviso will get 5 points against Zebre but not guaranteed anything else, with Connacht and Leinster away, and Munster coming possibly looking to seal a home semi-final.

No guarantees, but the team has delivered in recent weeks against Ulster, Scarlets and Edinburgh. They are more than capable of a result against Connacht away and Munster home. They wont catch Leinster cold after last year but they will be very focussed on that game, i wouldnt be surprised to see them get a few points out of it