Cancer battles

lukesmom

Have to say having watched both my parents suffer cancer and now my dad has it again at stage 4, i can safely say its a battle if there ever was one. Trying to be positive, coping with the impending ritualistic daily treatment for 6 weeks, knowing how sh!t your gonna feel after it. Battling the side effects that take over you as soon as youve left the hospital. And then praying its gone and fkd off away never to be seen again. Then consultations and check ups with the fear locked in your mind that its worse again. It surely is a battle.

Omackeral

Pugzilla wrote: »

Willpower doesn't kill cancer cells. Surgery, chemotherapy and radiotherapy does.

And thoughts and prayers.

Hammer89

lukesmom wrote: »

Have to say having watched both my parents suffer cancer and now my dad has it again at stage 4, i can safely say its a battle if there ever was one. Trying to be positive, coping with the impending ritualistic daily treatment for 6 weeks, knowing how sh!t your gonna feel after it. Battling the side effects that take over you as soon as youve left the hospital. And then praying its gone and fkd off away never to be seen again. Then consultations and check ups with the fear locked in your mind that its worse again. It surely is a battle.

Did your mum pass away from cancer? If so, do you not think it probably does her a disservice to suggest that she lost her battle? I think it probably does because if you lose anything then it presupposes that you could have potentially won.

Putting cancer in terms of winning and losing just makes no sense to me. I think we dishonour the dead by saying they lost their battles, and we exaggerate the heroism of the survivors by saying they won their battles.

Canis Lupus

I never battled it. I got sick, I got treated.

There were times during treatment I was sick of it all but I never felt like I 'battled'. I saw plenty of people in the cancer ward that were definitely battling though. You'd think you had it rough until you saw them. Cancer is such a ****ty disease, it's very disempowering (is that a word? it is now).

I've found the aftermath harder in some respects. Cancer isn't like a broken bone that after x amount of time is fixed. I have a 5 year wait until I can say it's probably not going to come back. Not a day has gone by in 3 years so far since the end of treatment that I haven't had a poke at my lymph nodes and wondered if one feels bigger than it did yesterday.

Hammer89

Canis Lupus wrote: »

Not a day has gone by in 3 years so far since the end of treatment that I haven't had a poke at my lymph nodes and wondered if one feels bigger than it did yesterday.

Damn. This is hard hitting

BbSean

I hate the word battle being used to describe living with cancer.

I feel that it is a negative description that stereotypes people with cancer.

Cancer isn’t a particularly nice disease and I doubt many people would sign up for it.

How people deal with it is individual, people bury their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening others face it head on and get on with life.

Would you want to be remembered for that time that you had cancer, or would you like to be remember for all the other things that you did, all the memories you created?

I buried my wife 6 weeks ago, 19 months after she was diagnosed with cancer.

It wasn’t a battle, it was a very steep learning curve followed by us appreciating what time we had left.

My wife did not want to have the cancer define who she was and I certainly won’t be remembering her as someone who “battled” cancer.

Pugzilla

Donald Trump wrote: »

Unfortunately, more than likely you will see someone close to you struggle and battle against cancer.

I diagnose cancer for a living and routinely speak with cancer surgeons and oncologists. I reckon I understand the topic better than you ever will, don't you agree?

I lost my mum a few weeks ago. I hate that terminology, as though people who succumb are somehow lacking the strength of character of those who battled and fought and so managed to survive, as opposed to those who 'lost their fight'.

She didn't die of a lack of fortitude, she died of cancer.

DefinitelyMarc

Cancer is a very sensitive subject and when describing a cancer battle (if you want to use that word) it seems that people are very divided on appreciation for the usage of that term. Some accept death in a stoic manner and just want to ease the burden of those around them. Others just refuse, as much as possible, to allow themselves to die.

Pieter Hintjens wrote this blog post a few months before choosing euthanasia. I think that it'd be good to see the point of view of someone who had terminal cancer and agrees with the OP, at least to balance out the opinions in this thread.

noble00

I don't really like the term she lost the battle or the fight to live that's a horrible thing to stay but I do think cancer is a battle , for me it felt like a battle every day going through treatment and the crap you have to deal with after , you do fight every day it's not just the chemo that saves you , you have to make yourself eat and drink even though it turns your stomach, you have to make yourself get up even though you have zero energy and pain in places you never thought you would get. Anyone that has gone through treatment whether they live or die has definitely fought a battle in my opinion

Donald Trump

Pugzilla wrote: »

I diagnose cancer for a living and routinely speak with cancer surgeons and oncologists. I reckon I understand the topic better than you ever will, don't you agree?

Obviously not.


If we were talking about biology or the merits of one treatment over another, then yeah - you're the expert relatively speaking.





But we're not. We're talking about the word used to describe the situation someone with cancer finds themselves in.





It is fairly typical of med students to adopt superiority and god complexes. Grand, you're an expert on biology. But accept your limits too


If we were having this thread about a word Spanish Language speakers used to describe a certain medical situation, would you opine as quickly? Or Russian language expressions? Would you be as quick to deign yourself an expert in those languages?

jos28

I agree that 'battle' is a strange terminology and it's one that is predictably used when fighting cancer. I suppose you can think of cancer as the enemy, these cancerous cells invade your body and it is a battle to keep them at bay.
Nobody wants that particular enemy occupying any part of your territory and you will use whatever weapons are offered (chemo,radiation,surgery)
Having said that I consider myself very lucky not to have had to fight those cells and my heart goes out to anyone that has or is fighting. People don't lose the 'battle', science just ran out of options. Cancer treatment is improving all the time, put the money into research/treatment and it will continue to improve.

noble00

I have to disagree unless you have had cancer pugzilla you don't know the ins and outs of cancer only the science but i think it goes beyond that ,it's like a judge saying I know what it's like to go to jail I send people their all the time

SirChenjin

Candie wrote: »

I lost my mum a few weeks ago. I hate that terminology, as though people who succumb are somehow lacking the strength of character of those who battled and fought and so managed to survive, as opposed to those who 'lost their fight'.

She didn't die of a lack of fortitude, she died of cancer.

Candie, I'm so sorry for your loss.
I know that there is nothing I can say that would help. Just so sorry.

Rubberlegs

Candie wrote: »

I lost my mum a few weeks ago. I hate that terminology, as though people who succumb are somehow lacking the strength of character of those who battled and fought and so managed to survive, as opposed to those who 'lost their fight'.

She didn't die of a lack of fortitude, she died of cancer.

I am so sorry to hear that Candie
I lost my Dad to cancer and am currently watching my Mum go through it for her second time. It terrifies me.

mynamejeff

i was 12 when i got cancer
It was extremely aggressive and was misdiagnosed a number of times because it was a very rare form leading to a very close brush indeed

it was operable thank budda so im still about but it left me scared for life and a very pragmatic if somewhat reckless adult,

as for a battle ?

yes

it was two months in extreme agony while a bone wasted away in my arm followed by a few months in hospital and 6 more months on antibiotics

lucky for me i was young and strong then , now i dont think i could deal with it the same way

Pugzilla

Cancer is very common, most people including myself will get it if they live long enough. Cancer "survivors" have no special status or privilege. Medical science saved their lives, not their mental strength.

Donald Trump

Pugzilla wrote: »

Cancer is very common, most people including myself will get it if they live long enough. Cancer "survivors" have no special status or privilege. Medical science saved their lives, not their mental strength.

Grand.


When a loved one goes through the pain or suffering, maybe having pieces of their body removed and terrible radio/chemo treatment and they finally get the all-clear, you can dismiss their celebrations with a "ah sure you did nothing, it was medical science"


Not everyone writing here is stuck in an autistic rut of black-and-white biology of cancer. They're referring to the emotional, psychological and otherwise physical struggles of dealing with the disease and its treatment.

One eyed Jack

Pugzilla wrote: »

Cancer is very common, most people including myself will get it if they live long enough. Cancer "survivors" have no special status or privilege. Medical science saved their lives, not their mental strength.

Two completely different contexts though - speaking of cancer in a medical context will of course differ to how it's spoken of in a social context. The medical context is pretty much universal, whereas the social context will depend on cultural and social factors, and like I said earlier, while I don't use the term myself, I can understand why some people do refer to it as a battle. I'm not put out by it in any way, shape or form, I understand that it helps those people who do use it to refer to it that way, and other people don't find it helpful. I don't think anyone has exclusive authority to decide for other people what terminology or analogies they should or shouldn't use in a social context or what language is or isn't 'appropriate' for that person.

Pugzilla

Donald Trump wrote: »

Grand.


When a loved one goes through the pain or suffering, maybe having pieces of their body removed and terrible radio/chemo treatment and they finally get the all-clear, you can dismiss their celebrations with a "ah sure you did nothing, it was medical science"

They didn't do anything, that's my point. People make out beating a cancer as some amazing personal achievement when it's not. They personally didn't do anything of note, bar comply with treatment.

Donald Trump

Pugzilla wrote: »

They didn't do anything, that's my point. People make out beating a cancer as some amazing personal achievement when it's not. They personally did anything of note, bar comply with treatment.

Certain people should not be doctors. That has always been a problem







I thought that this HPAT was supposed to weed them out

Diversity for Hire

Pugzilla wrote: »

They didn't do anything, that's my point. People make out beating a cancer as some amazing personal achievement when it's not. They personally did anything of note, bar comply with treatment.

Jesus man, do you work as an abortionist or something? It takes a special type to have that coldness.

Pugzilla

Diversity for Hire wrote: »

Jesus man, do you work as an abortionist or something? It takes a special type to have that coldness.

I just live in reality, you should try it some time.

Pugzilla

Donald Trump wrote: »

Certain people should not be doctors. That has always been a problem

I see what detrimental effects cancer can have on patients and their families emotionally and socially. Doesn't change the fact that patients have a passive role in treatment.



Patients can play an important active role in cancer prevention via lifestyle changes like smoking cessation etc. Once cancer has been established, then there's little they can do personally to alter the course.

Alf Veedersane

Pugzilla wrote: »

I see what detrimental effects cancer can have on patients and their families emotionally and socially. Doesn't change the fact that patients have a passive role in treatment.

Treatment isn't easy. The delivery of the treatment is outside of the patient's role but coping with it isn't.

The patient still had to cope with the physical effects of the treatment. Of feeling incredibly sick, of having no energy...every waking moment is just not pleasant, and all in the hope that it might work...or might give them more time with their family.

And in the latter, it's a battle to go on for the extra time when all you feel is fúcked all the time.

Yes, the patient is passive in the delivery of the treatment or its success but they still have to deal with the effects.

_Dara_

That word is a sore spot for many cancer-sufferers. To some, it implies that if the person dies, that they lost and were somehow weak.

It doesn’t offend me too much because, honestly, it IS a mental battle. Putting one foot in front of the other whilst often dealing with both pain and the knowledge that my days are now numbered has taken all the mental strength I can muster.

But a lot of terminal cancer patients I know through various avenues absolutely hate the battle terminology.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Very despressing subject on a Friday night in the height of a heatwave

Well, this is life for some of us. Be thankful that you are only reading about it!

_Dara_

Trigger Happy wrote: »

If you ever have to deal with cancer then it does feel like a battle that is fcking hard to win.
And semantics is the last thing on your, or your loved ones, minds.

I’d have to disagree there. Terminal patients have a lot of time to think about this stuff. They’re no longer looking to cure their disease so treatment doesn’t actually take up all their time. The semantics bothers a lot of them. The difference in mentality between people who have a chance at a cure and those of us who don’t is quite stark.

Trigger Happy

_Dara_ wrote: »

I’d have to disagree there. Terminal patients have a lot of time to think about this stuff. They’re no longer looking to cure their disease so treatment doesn’t actually take up all their time. The semantics bothers a lot of them. The difference in mentality between people who have a chance at a cure and those of us who don’t is quite stark.

Yeah, I suppose it depends on where you are coming from, what stage you are at etc.
I dont have experience of terminal or later stages.

_Dara_

Your Face wrote: »

The OP is a ****.

I think people are being very harsh on the OP.

He has actually touched on something that is quite a hot topic among terminal cancer patients.

Here’s an interesting article from a terminal cancer patient from a few years back:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/25/having-cancer-not-fight-or-battle

jaxxx wrote: »

I find that f*cking disgusting. Heaven forbid you or someone you cared about ever got cancer. Seeing what it puts you through, puts them through, physically, mentally, emotionally. Then come back to me and say it's not a f*cking battle. How f*cking dare you, and I say that as a survivor.

And I say as a terminal cancer patient that many people in my position really loathe the battle terminology. Don’t speak for all of us!

_Dara_

BbSean wrote: »

I hate the word battle being used to describe living with cancer.

I feel that it is a negative description that stereotypes people with cancer.

Cancer isn’t a particularly nice disease and I doubt many people would sign up for it.

How people deal with it is individual, people bury their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening others face it head on and get on with life.

Would you want to be remembered for that time that you had cancer, or would you like to be remember for all the other things that you did, all the memories you created?

I buried my wife 6 weeks ago, 19 months after she was diagnosed with cancer.

It wasn’t a battle, it was a very steep learning curve followed by us appreciating what time we had left.

My wife did not want to have the cancer define who she was and I certainly won’t be remembering her as someone who “battled” cancer.

I’m so sorry for your loss and I totally agree with you. She was a person, not cancer.

_Dara_

Candie wrote: »

I lost my mum a few weeks ago. I hate that terminology, as though people who succumb are somehow lacking the strength of character of those who battled and fought and so managed to survive, as opposed to those who 'lost their fight'.

She didn't die of a lack of fortitude, she died of cancer.

So sorry, Candie. What you’ve expressed here is what many terminal patients feel.

Alf Veedersane

To be honest, its probably used as much as it is out of habit and not because people really think about the words they're using and how appropriate they are.

_Dara_

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

To be honest, its probably used as much as it is out of habit and not because people really think about the words they're using and how appropriate they are.

I think that’s a good point. A lot of mindless things are said to cancer patients. For two reasons, I think. Like you say, habit. We all have well worn phrases that we trot out in life. Secondly, just bloody awkwardness. I think a lot of people just don’t know what to say to cancer patients and before my diagnosis, I would have been the same.

A lot of cancer bloggers write lists of things you should and shouldn’t say to cancer patients. I think it’s pointless. They would do well to remember that they were once the person saying well-meaning but unhelpful things.

Alf Veedersane

_Dara_ wrote: »

A lot of cancer bloggers write lists of things you should and shouldn’t say to cancer patients. I think it’s pointless. They would do well to remember that they were once the person saying well-meaning but unhelpful things.

A lot of the time, if someone is saying the 'wrong' thing, you'll know it's coming from the right place.

_Dara_

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

A lot of the time, if someone is saying the 'wrong' thing, you'll know it's coming from the right place.

Yes, exactly.

Though I do remain gobsmacked at the consultant who, after I had spent the night in my hospital bed crying about my dire prognosis, breezily said to me “Sure you could hit by a bus tomorrow!”. I was 32 and I had just been handed a definite death sentence. Meanwhile being hit by a bus is unlikely. I am still staggered by her horrible bedside manner. She wasn’t an oncologist. Maybe she had little experience of dying folk?

Alf Veedersane

_Dara_ wrote: »

Yes, exactly.

Though I do remain gobsmacked at the consultant who, after I had spent the night in my hospital bed crying about my dire prognosis, breezily said to me “Sure you could hit by a bus tomorrow!”. I was 32 and I had just been handed a definite death sentence. Meanwhile being hit by a bus is unlikely. I am still staggered by her horrible bedside manner. She wasn’t an oncologist. Maybe she had little experience of dying folk?

Sounds like the kind of insensitivity you get from someone trying to say something to minimise it and failing badly.

I never know what to say. I dont have much experience of how to deal with it other than being closer to home when i didn't have the opportunity to think of what was the right or wrong thing to say.

_Dara_

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Sounds like the kind of insensitivity you get from someone trying to say something to minimise it and failing badly.

I never know what to say. I dont have much experience of how to deal with it other than being closer to home when i didn't have the opportunity to think of what was the right or wrong thing to say.

Honestly, my favourite response is when people just say “I’m sorry, that’s really sh1t”.

Alf Veedersane

_Dara_ wrote: »

Honestly, my favourite response is when people just say “I’m sorry, that’s really sh1t”.

I hear ya. There are no words to make you feel better so call a spade a spade.

FWIW, I'm sorry, the cards you've been dealt are really shít.

_Dara_

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

I hear ya. There are no words to make you feel better so call a spade a spade.

FWIW, I'm sorry, the cards you've been dealt are really shít.

Yes, there’s nothing wrong with just calling it as it is.

Or offer concrete practical help. One of my terminal cancer support group friends is a 40 year old mother of three young children. She’s Australian, married to an Irishman. So her own family are far far away though her in-laws are very supportive. She’s a stay-at-home mother but once a month, she has to spend a full day in Dublin getting treatment, as well as the odd extra day for scans. She lives in the midlands. She has group of four or five close friends and they have a rota worked out to mind her children on her treatment days. Some of them work and take annual leave in order to help. I was touched when she told me that. That’s what people need. Practical support, not platitudes.