From the Pantibar!!!

Conservatory

Conservatory wrote: »

Straight lads get hidings as well. You know there’s all this stuff about violence against gays

How many of them do you think got beaten up because they were straight? :rolleyes:

yesto24

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Well look I'll put it to you in a question, have you every been threatened or verbally abused for being heterosexual?

If the answer is no, then that is your privilege.

You can't put this idea of "privilege" into words without it being a question? It just comes across as patronising. I am not a fool, I can follow an idea (and yes I know this is after hours and some wit will be along to say "you are a fool ha ha but anyway)
To answer your question yes.
Ah well, looks like I don't have that privilege.
Just for the record are there any other privileges I should look out for?
But do you know what, he didn't do that to me because he was gay he did it because he was a dick who just happened to be gay.
Anyway go away with your privilege nonsense.
It a bull**** idea and is very easy to turn around on anyone so be careful where you use it or it will be turned on you.

trick

Conservatory wrote: »

Straight lads get hidings as well. You know there’s all this stuff about violence against gays and violence about women but straight men getting hit never gets reported much.

I’d say more gay men and women get beaten by their partners these days than get beaten by homophobes.

I get where you are coming from. However, gay people are generally getting the **** kicked out of them because they are gay. A straight guy or a straight woman gets the **** kicker out of them for reasons GENERALLY unrelated to their sexual orientation

How Soon Is Now

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I hope I'm alive to see the day when we won't need ****ing parades or special days weeks or months to celebrate things that only apply to a certain amount of people yet everyone has to know and hear about it.

We already had that day back in the 1950's.

Apply that logic next time and we won't have Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, etc.

yesto24

trick wrote: »

I get where you are coming from. However, gay people are generally getting the **** kicked out of them because they are gay. A straight guy or a straight woman gets the **** kicker out of them for reasons GENERALLY unrelated to their sexual orientation

And what is worse?
They are both going to hurt just as bad. Are gay bones more brittle than straight bones? Does gay skin cut more easily than straight skin?
This is the problem of the idea of a hate crime, surely all crimes of kicking the **** of someone innocent is a hate crime?

Will I Am Not

Privilege :rolleyes:

deco nate

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We already had that day back in the 1950's.

Apply that logic next time and we won't have Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, etc.

I'd be happy if religion was wiped off the face of the planet, but let's keep the holidays.we would be better off without all this bs

trick

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I hope I'm alive to see the day when we won't need ****ing parades or special days weeks or months to celebrate things that only apply to a certain amount of people yet everyone has to know and hear about it.

They REALLY don’t just apply to a certain amount of people. Every one is accepted. That’s the entire idea. Every person is invited & accepted.
I am 34.
I was in a hetero rel up until early 2016. I am in a rel with a girl since late 2016.
I have faced anti homo **** since then. Not a lot I will admit. HOWEVER, it has happened.
One afternoon we were crossing the Italian quarter bridge and a guy barked “DYKES” in our face.
Please tell me of a time where you were persecuted about your sexual orientation

How Soon Is Now

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We already had that day back in the 1950's.

Apply that logic next time and we won't have Christmas, Easter, St. Patrick's Day, etc.

Im sure at some point we won't even be calling them those names or celebrating them the same in fear of offending someone.

How Soon Is Now

trick wrote: »

They REALLY don’t just apply to a certain amount of people. Every one is accepted. That’s the entire idea. Every person is invited & accepted.
I am 34.
I was in a hetero rel up until early 2016. I am in a rel with a girl since late 2016.
I have faced anti homo **** since then. Not a lot I will admit. HOWEVER, it has happened.
One afternoon we were crossing the Italian quarter bridge and a guy barked “DYKES” in our face.
Please tell me of a time where you were persecuted about your sexual orientation

I never said I was? Did I?

trick

yesto24 wrote: »

And what is worse?
They are both going to hurt just as bad. Are gay bones more brittle than straight bones? Does gay skin cut more easily than straight skin?
This is the problem of the idea of a hate crime, surely all crimes of kicking the **** of someone innocent is a hate crime?

Don’t try to make this **them again us**
I don’t play like that boo *-)

Nobody deserves abuse.
NOBODY!!!!!

But the abuse of someone from a STRANGER because someone is GAY or TRANS or anything on the LGBTQIA+ is not ok.

The thread is about homosexuals.

I fight for the protection of everyone’s rights. I’m a nurse.
I don’t think that anyone is above anyone or below anyone.
Please don’t try twist it that way

trick

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I never said I was? Did I?

You implied it honey x

yesto24

trick wrote: »

Don’t try to make this **them again us**
I don’t play like that boo *-)

Nobody deserves abuse.
NOBODY!!!!!

But the abuse of someone from a STRANGER because someone is GAY or TRANS or anything on the LGBTQIA+ is not ok.

The thread is about homosexuals.

I fight for the protection of everyone’s rights. I’m a nurse.
I don’t think that anyone is above anyone or below anyone.
Please don’t try twist it that way

I am not trying to make it them against us.
That was my point.

Love how you dropped I'm a nurse randomly into your post.

I do think I am above some people. And I am sure nearly everyone on this thread does too.
I think I am above the lads in Portlaoise who doled out that beating that was mentioned earlier.

Is there anyone who thinks they are an equal to those boyos?

trick

trick wrote: »

I fight for the protection of everyone’s rights.

trick

yesto24 wrote: »

I am not trying to make it them against us.
That was my point.

Love how you dropped I'm a nurse randomly into your post.

What was random about that?
I am a nurse ðŸ˜

How Soon Is Now

trick wrote: »

You implied it honey x

How?

Look people get judged in all kinds of ways no matter who or what they are.

Sure you could be the most white straight manliest man going (the most privileged types!) and still get abuse in some form. It's not a contest or is it?

Life is **** a lot the time that won't ever change no matter who or what you are.

Some just deal with it better then others.

trick

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Exactly. I do.
I am against any time of abuse.
This is a thread re pantibar and homosexuals +++
I will always fight the corner or anyone that is abused
Whether that is a straight person or a gay person

Star Bingo

Never been is that like a gay zanzibar or what

yesto24

trick wrote: »

What was random about that?
I am a nurse ðŸ˜

But what has it got to do with your comment?

trick

yesto24 wrote: »

But what has it got to do with your comment?

There was Implication that I didn’t feel the same towards straight people who are abused in STRAIGHT rels.

I’m confused as to how it’s necessary for me to explain?
I have worked in many an ER where a PERSON arrives following a domestic assault.
I will always be against any type of assault. Always.

But the thread is about pantibar ==\== homosexuals
That was my basis for my opinion in my op

Sorry if I hit a nerve

Outlaw Pete

Just home from watching Kickboxer in the Lighthouse and Smithfield was packed as I left (primed for tomorrow's Pride events there I guess).

Anyway, as I made my way towards the Luas a couple of young guys made some suggestive comments to me and asked me to come up to some party with them. I jovially declined and then some further comments were made which I won't repeat. Have we really got to stage where a man can't walk the streets at night without lewd offers of sex being made to them? As far as I'm concerned this means one thing, and that's that I've clearly still got it!!

For evidence of true equality though I still think what we need are groups of young women accosting men on the way home, with similarly debauched offers. We're a ways off that of that of course but we can always hope, we can always do that.

yesto24

trick wrote: »

There was Implication that I didn’t feel the same towards straight people who are abused in STRAIGHT rels.

I’m confused as to how it’s necessary for me to explain?
I have worked in many an ER where a PERSON arrives following a domestic assault.
I will always be against any type of assault. Always.

But the thread is about pantibar ==\== homosexuals
That was my basis for my opinion in my op

Sorry if I hit a nerve

No you don't hit a nerve
I thought it was a random comment to drop in and after your explanation I still do.
I didn't see the implication that you mentioned.

trick

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Just home from watching Kickboxer in the Lighthouse and Smithfield was packed as I left (primed for tomorrow's Pride events there I guess).

Anyway, as I made my way towards the Luas a couple of young guys made some suggestive comments to me and asked me to come up to some party with them. I jovially declined and then some further comments were made which I won't repeat. Have we really got to stage where a man can't walk the streets at night without lewd offers of sex being made to them? As far as I'm concerned this means one thing and that that I've clearly still got it!!

For evidence of true equality though I still think what we need are groups of young women accosting men on the way home, with similarly debauched offers. We're a ways off that off that of course but we can always hope, we can always do that.

Buddy I hope that you know that not all women share the same idea of #metoo
I literally hate that entire debaucle. I feel like it’s an easy **OUT** for women to be misandrists.
I don’t think it’s ok that you were basically accosted. Not cool!
Hope you got home safe and you are ok 👌ðŸ»

trick

yesto24 wrote: »

No you don't hit a nerve
I thought it was a random comment to drop in and after your explanation I still do.
I didn't see the implication that you mentioned.

That’s your issue boo.
I explained. I can’t do anymore

White_hills

Think they had a bit of bother there tonight, someone threw a rock through the window with an anti gay message on it. Bad form!! ,

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/06/30/pride-me-sideways/

yesto24

trick wrote: »

That’s your issue boo.
I explained. I can’t do anymore

It's not an issue.
I am not asking you too.
Don't worry you don't have to.

deco nate

trick wrote: »

Buddy I hope that you know that not all women share the same idea of #metoo
I literally hate that entire debaucle. I feel like it’s an easy **OUT** for women to be misandrists.
I don’t think it’s ok that you were basically accosted. Not cool!
Hope you got home safe and you are ok 👌ðŸ»

He's taking the piss...

trick

deco nate wrote: »

He's taking the piss...

I’m enjoying pride weekend avec 2 bottles of prosecco. I’m never on here. Ever. So I don’t know this dudes form.
Merci

trick

deco nate wrote: »

He's taking the piss...

My post stands though

deco nate

trick wrote: »

My post stands though

Read his post again tomorrow. You're reply totally missed the mark;)
(I'm not having a go)
Enjoy the rest of your night

trick

deco nate wrote: »

Read his post again tomorrow. You're reply totally missed the mark;)
(I'm not having a go)
Enjoy the rest of your night

I literally just reread it and LOL’d
BOLD!
I can’t see straight.
But, know that I’m not about that misandry :-D
Have a fun weekend

Yer Da sells Avon

Conservatory wrote: »

Ah I’m a homophobe now. Thanks for that.

Let's look at the evidence...

Your view on an incident where two gay men were beaten with hurls:

Conservatory wrote: »

Straight lads get hidings as well.

Your view on a prominent gay pub having its window smashed on Pride weekend - by a brick with a homophobic message on it:

Conservatory wrote: »

Seems made up to me

If you don't want to be perceived as a homophobe, then maybe you should engage in a (what I suspect would be very fucking rare) moment of introspection, and consider exactly why you feel the need to downplay a homophobic attack, or deny that an incident of homophobic vandalism even happened.

Yes, it's fair to say that gay people generally have it easier nowadays than twenty or thirty years ago, but to suggest that Pride is unnecessary or that homophobic attacks are no longer something to be feared in this country is to ignore the lived experiences of gay people. And that takes a fuck-load of arrogance - the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

padd b1975

White_hills wrote: »

Think they had a bit of bother there tonight, someone threw a rock through the window with an anti gay message on it. Bad form!! ,

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/06/30/pride-me-sideways/

O'Neill is going to be dining out on that particular trauma for the foreseeable I fear.

Richard Hillman

Back when the George was vandalised it was headline news and commentators telling us that everyone is homophobic. Turned out it was just one teenager in a badger costume with mental health Issues.

Probably the same scenario with the Panti Bar stone through the window.

seachto7

White_hills wrote: »

Think they had a bit of bother there tonight, someone threw a rock through the window with an anti gay message on it. Bad form!! ,

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/06/30/pride-me-sideways/

Maybe it was thrown in because yer man is an annoying bollox

Try_harder

seachto7 wrote: »

Maybe it was thrown in because yer man is an annoying bollox

But they didn't know what that was in Irish...

SEPT 23 1989

White_hills wrote: »

Think they had a bit of bother there tonight, someone threw a rock through the window with an anti gay message on it. Bad form!! ,

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/06/30/pride-me-sideways/

That's a fancy looking brick

ItAintMeBabe

ItAintMeBabe wrote:

How about you stop commenting on issues you clearly know nothing about and realize your privilege?

ItAintMeBabe wrote:

If the answer is no, then that is your privilege.

Hapax Legomenon wrote:

. And that takes a ****-load of arrogance - the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

Get t**** with your privilege nonsense. You have no idea what goes on in other people's lives. It reminds me of that whole "punch up, never punch down" victim mentality rule in comedy.

If you feel you can judge someone and declare that they have "privilege" based purely on their colour/gender or orientation then frankly you are the bigot.

Check your privilege? Don't you dare assume my life experiences.

Omackeral

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Let's look at the evidence...

Your view on an incident where two gay men were beaten with hurls:




Your view on a prominent gay pub having its window smashed on Pride weekend - by a brick with a homophobic message on it:




If you don't want to be perceived as a homophobe, then maybe you should engage in a (what I suspect would be very fucking rare) moment of introspection, and consider exactly why you feel the need to downplay a homophobic attack, or deny that an incident of homophobic vandalism even happened.

Yes, it's fair to say that gay people generally have it easier nowadays than twenty or thirty years ago, but to suggest that Pride is unnecessary or that homophobic attacks are no longer something to be feared in this country is to ignore the lived experiences of gay people. And that takes a fuck-load of arrogance -

In agreement with nearly all of that.

the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

That last line irks me terribly though. Privilege. I can't abide that. I'm privileged because I happen to like people of the opposite sex? I'm privileged because there's a minority of wanker that pick on people that are different to them? I think the only ones that deserve any label are the pricks that are harassing gay people.

bucketybuck

Did some gobshite really tell somebody else to check their privilege?

This is a parody right?

Calhoun

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Let's look at the evidence...

Your view on an incident where two gay men were beaten with hurls:




Your view on a prominent gay pub having its window smashed on Pride weekend - by a brick with a homophobic message on it:




If you don't want to be perceived as a homophobe, then maybe you should engage in a (what I suspect would be very fucking rare) moment of introspection, and consider exactly why you feel the need to downplay a homophobic attack, or deny that an incident of homophobic vandalism even happened.

Yes, it's fair to say that gay people generally have it easier nowadays than twenty or thirty years ago, but to suggest that Pride is unnecessary or that homophobic attacks are no longer something to be feared in this country is to ignore the lived experiences of gay people. And that takes a fuck-load of arrogance - the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

Ah we are straight up importing the American liberal politics now.

Love how privilege is used to discredit any opposing views, I do hope it doesn't have the same impact at it does in America and polarize people against the community.

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

Let's look at the evidence...

Your view on an incident where two gay men were beaten with hurls:

It's hardly evidence of him or anyone else being homophobic to question the association with violence and sexuality.

I've looked at a number of articles about that attack, and there is no evidence of it being related to sexuality. There is no record of the attackers leaving any message, being caught on camera, or stating any belief.

The only people claiming that it is homophobic are the couple who were attacked... and they could easily be doing that to gain sympathy in the hopes of their medical bills somehow being covered.

Or simply they assume that every attack against them is related to them being gay... irrespective of the fact that people get attacked for all manner of reasons.

Straight men don't hold a monopoly on being assholes, irritating etc, and this attack could easily be because of their behavior towards a group of nutjobs. They're still victims, but not because of their sexual beliefs.

Until you can provide evidence that this was an attack directly related to their sexuality, Conservatory is completely justified in questioning the claims. As is anyone else.

Your view on a prominent gay pub having its window smashed on Pride weekend - by a brick with a homophobic message on it:

One incident. Has the George faced many attacks each year every year since it opened? Nah. one attack a year on a famous pub is hardly a footnote. Two attacks? Twenty in a year? Go ask any mainstream pub owner, how much vandalism and violence they're on the receiving end....

You're attempting to present Ireland as if it's some kind of haven for homophobes. It's not. It could have been considered homophobic thirty years ago, but now, not a chance. Some people are going to be homophobic but they're a definite minority in this country.

Unless you want to provide some actual evidence?

Yes, it's fair to say that gay people generally have it easier nowadays than twenty or thirty years ago, but to suggest that Pride is unnecessary

It's necessary for what it is. An expression of Gay Pride. That's it.

or that homophobic attacks are no longer something to be feared in this country is to ignore the lived experiences of gay people. And that takes a fuck-load of arrogance - the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

And see, this is different from what was said earlier. Any attack is always to be "feared" for any group, gay or otherwise. However, there is no serious environment in this country of homophobia, and assuming attacks towards gay people are related to their sexuality without evidence... is ridiculous and should be squashed.

How Soon Is Now

Calhoun wrote: »

Ah we are straight up importing the American liberal politics now.

Love how privilege is used to discredit any opposing views, I do hope it doesn't have the same impact at it does in America and polarize people against the community.

Ya shame people have to attach themselves onto more American bull****.

One the reasons I've no time for pride is because there's a awful lot of Liberal politics attached to the lgbt scene in general now.

You won't just have gay men and women out enjoying themselves today and in fairness I've no real issue with thrm anyway! your gonna have a load of multi coloured hair new aged feminist goons clinging on!

I seen enough of this last year in Dublin City centre.

mikemac2

White_hills wrote: »

https://www.broadsheet.ie/2018/06/30/pride-me-sideways/

The second issue is the commercialisation of the Pride parade. There are employers on that list of sponsors who I know treat their employees like ****, would they be as quick to engage with a union as they would with employees about gay pride?

Tis an interesting point and we had a thread on it earlier this week. Some businesses want to hop on the bandwagon and grab some PR but still treat their staff badly

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote: »

And that takes a fuck-load of arrogance - the sort of arrogance that only privilege can bring.

I skipped over this earlier.. honestly didn't register, but this concept of "privilege" is a cop out. The statistics both here in Ireland and in all western countries don't support the concept of either a white privilege, or a heterosexual privilege. Legal equality is a fact. The mechanisms are in place for any person who feels to be a victim of discrimination to lay a claim and have it investigated.. and TBF members of association like being homosexual, or a minority are more likely to receive sympathy than a heterosexual white male. That's not privilege... it's just the way things are.

Most jobs cannot and don't make any reference to sexual orientation, which means that being Heterosexual doesn't earn any extra benefits. The vast majority of gay people don't promote their sexual orientation (neither do hetro) and so they're treated the same. However, those people who do promote their orientation or seek to make themselves obviously different (being "camp", or overly masucline) are going to be on the receiving end of more positive and negative attention. Why? Because they go looking for it.

Privilege is a way of escaping responsibility for your own life, and choices. As a person over 41 years, I have been put in hospital 3 times, assaulted 7 times, mugged 4 times, and not once have I assumed it was because I was either a heterosexual male (although I did cause some trouble chatting up someones GF), or because I was male, or because I was white. It was because I was unlucky or outright stupid to bring that attention on myself.

How Soon Is Now

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I skipped over this earlier.. honestly didn't register, but this concept of "privilege" is a cop out. The statistics both here in Ireland and in all western countries don't support the concept of either a white privilege, or a heterosexual privilege. Legal equality is a fact. The mechanisms are in place for any person who feels to be a victim of discrimination to lay a claim and have it investigated.. and TBF members of association like being homosexual, or a minority are more likely to receive sympathy than a heterosexual white male. That's not privilege... it's just the way things are.

Most jobs cannot and don't make any reference to sexual orientation, which means that being Heterosexual doesn't earn any extra benefits. The vast majority of gay people don't promote their sexual orientation (neither do hetro) and so they're treated the same. However, those people who do promote their orientation or seek to make themselves obviously different (being "camp", or overly masucline) are going to be on the receiving end of more positive and negative attention. Why? Because they go looking for it.

Privilege is a way of escaping responsibility for your own life, and choices. As a person over 41 years, I have been put in hospital 3 times, assaulted 7 times, mugged 4 times, and not once have I assumed it was because I was either a heterosexual male (although I did cause some trouble chatting up someones GF), or because I was male, or because I was white. It was because I was unlucky or outright stupid to bring that attention on myself.

You summed the whole thing up perfectly.

Yer Da sells Avon

Deleted User wrote: »

Get t**** with your privilege nonsense. You have no idea what goes on in other people's lives. It reminds me of that whole "punch up, never punch down" victim mentality rule in comedy.

If you feel you can judge someone and declare that they have "privilege" based purely on their colour/gender or orientation then frankly you are the bigot.

Check your privilege? Don't you dare assume my life experiences.

Omackeral wrote: »

In agreement with nearly all of that.



That last line irks me terribly though. Privilege. I can't abide that. I'm privileged because I happen to like people of the opposite sex? I'm privileged because there's a minority of wanker that pick on people that are different to them? I think the only ones that deserve any label are the pricks that are harassing gay people.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Did some gobshite really tell somebody else to check their privilege?

This is a parody right?

Calhoun wrote: »

Ah we are straight up importing the American liberal politics now.

Love how privilege is used to discredit any opposing views, I do hope it doesn't have the same impact at it does in America and polarize people against the community.

Deleted User wrote: »

I skipped over this earlier.. honestly didn't register, but this concept of "privilege" is a cop out. The statistics both here in Ireland and in all western countries don't support the concept of either a white privilege, or a heterosexual privilege. Legal equality is a fact. The mechanisms are in place for any person who feels to be a victim of discrimination to lay a claim and have it investigated.. and TBF members of association like being homosexual, or a minority are more likely to receive sympathy than a heterosexual white male. That's not privilege... it's just the way things are.

Most jobs cannot and don't make any reference to sexual orientation, which means that being Heterosexual doesn't earn any extra benefits. The vast majority of gay people don't promote their sexual orientation (neither do hetro) and so they're treated the same. However, those people who do promote their orientation or seek to make themselves obviously different (being "camp", or overly masucline) are going to be on the receiving end of more positive and negative attention. Why? Because they go looking for it.

Privilege is a way of escaping responsibility for your own life, and choices. As a person over 41 years, I have been put in hospital 3 times, assaulted 7 times, mugged 4 times, and not once have I assumed it was because I was either a heterosexual male (although I did cause some trouble chatting up someones GF), or because I was male, or because I was white. It was because I was unlucky or outright stupid to bring that attention on myself.

Thanks for sharing your views, lads.

Imreoir2

yesto24 wrote: »

You do realise 10 years ago was 2008?
Things were not that bad then.
Even 20 years ago I don't think that would have happened.

You don't think LGBT youths faced problems like that 5 years after being Gay stopped being a criminal offence in this country? Seriously?

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote:

Thanks for sharing your views, lads.

Not a problem; it was my privilege

Hapax Legomenon

Hapax Legomenon wrote:

Thanks for sharing your views, lads.

Not a problem; it was my privilege