Tour de France 2018 - General Thread

Brian?

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Who will lead sky at vuelta?

Froome

Boscoirl

Today I reckon Froome reinvents himself as a sprinter, he is good enough in the mountains not to miss the time cuts. Sky will dominate both jerseys then

sxt

Arise, Sir G!

selwyn froggitt

harringtonp wrote: »

And ?? Anything interesting said ?

Just a great story of success I think from a Comprehensive school in Wales to produce Warburton and Bale who were both captains for their country in different sports - and now Thomas a TdF champion...

Warburton once said that when he played football for the school, the only rule was that if you had the ball "give it to Bale"
The PE teacher was so proud,and rightly so

lizzylad84

Delighted to see G in yellow. Deserving winner and perhaps a safer option for sky given recent media coverage regarding froome

nomdeboardie

Re the tradition of not attacking the lead on the final day: what would happen if e.g. the times for the first 3 GC positions were close, and the 2nd and 3rd-placed riders needed to battle it out, but in doing so might pass the leader? And/or if leader were just having a really really bad day , but not bad enough to pull out sick/injured? [Apologies if these are silly Qs]

Lusk_Doyle

selwyn froggitt wrote: »

Just a great story of success I think from a Comprehensive school in Wales to produce Warburton and Bale who were both captains for their country in different sports - and now Thomas a TdF champion...

Warburton once said that when he played football for the school, the only rule was that if you had the ball "give it to Bale"
The PE teacher was so proud,and rightly so

Poor Warburton had to retire last week due to injury.

Macy0161

nomdeboardie wrote:

Re the tradition of not attacking the lead on the final day: what would happen if e.g. the times for the first 3 GC positions were close, and the 2nd and 3rd-placed riders needed to battle it out, but in doing so might pass the leader? And/or if leader were just having a really really bad day , but not bad enough to pull out sick/injured? [Apologies if these are silly Qs]

As I said earlier in the thread, it's only a relatively recent thing. I'd assume if it was close enough that bonuses would count/ were available, they'd race.

Macy0161 wrote:

This whole ceremonial stage thing is only really since the 90's, and grew out leaders being so far ahead.

I can't remember if it's in his book or I heard it in an interview (and has definitely been discussed on the "this day in cycling history" podcast), but Roche did a deal with superconfex/ John Paul van Poppel that he wouldn't go for points if they helped keep control of the race as they were fearful of Delgado attacking. Roche was leading the points comp going into the final stage...

irishrover99

Just watching the highlights and it was very strange to see Thomas starting the last lap with not 1 sky rider around him.

They weren't even close to him. Certainly not what you'd expect from sky

retalivity

Prize money for the tour by team -

Team Sky €726,630
Team Sunweb €245,280
Lotto NL Jumbo €190,980
Quick-Step Floors €145,070
Bora-hansgrohe €125,900
Movistar Team €114,620
UAE Team Emirates €100,650
Bahrain-Merida €86,050
AG2R-La Mondiale €69,800
Trek-Segafredo €58,850
Wanty-Groupe Gobert €56,600
BMC Racing €54,340
Astana Pro Team €53,530
Groupama-FDJ €53,290
Direct Energie €40,850
Team Fortuneo-Samsic €36,590
Cofidis, Solutions Credit €25,780
Mitchelton-Scott €20,970
Team Katusha Alpecin €18,070
Lotto Soudal €16,750
Team Dimension Data €15,730
EF Education First-Drapac Cannondale €14,420

Efs winnings works out at about €100 per day per rider

velo.2010

Hmm, so Thomas hasn't signed on the dotted line with Sky for next year. Clever if he managed to delay signing it, knowing Froome's Tour participation was up in the air until a few days before the start.

He could as near match Froome's salary but surely he can't command Tour leadership again if Froome only targets the Tour next year. Will he be happy with one and done and stay with Sky or is he ambitious to led a team of his own? But where does he go? No more BMC and Trek have Porte. What about UAE, Bahrain-Merida, or maybe Astana?

If he stays with Sky I think it will create tension next year. I believe Froome will be happy to let this year slide given his Giro participation but he'll want one if not two more clear cracks at the Tour.

Macy0161

dastardly00 wrote:

Using this year's race as an example, if he was on a better team, he wouldn't have lost as much time as he did during the team time trial. That would have been a huge benefit.

Stronger team would have him better positioned too, which was definitely an issue on the mende stage. He said he was riding in the gutter to get into position. He also wasted energy on a couple of stages being the wrong sides of splits, that a stronger team might've had him nearer the front, or had more available to help the chase.

If he could TT better, then he would be on a better team.

retalivity

retalivity wrote: »

Prize money for the tour by team -



Efs winnings works out at about €100 per day per rider

There are other payments but still if thats what teams collect after a 3 week race then it must be buttons for most on the other races. Make you realise how important sponsors are and how much they must pay out. One things for sure even if you have the 50 odd wins quickstep have this year, the prize money wouldn't make a dent in what it cost to run the team.

Dr. Bre

He hit the G spot

Lusk_Doyle

Dr. Bre wrote: »

He hit the G spot

Who did and can he tell the rest of us where it is?

SharpshooterTom

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

Gareth Thomas!

That's what happens when you post at 4:42am. :pac: (Although at 6:18am's probably not much better)

gmacww

Macy0161 wrote: »

As clean as it's ever been. Cycling is as clean as any professional sport - most simply don't test, and the media won't investigate.

Do you think a cycling team could say in a press conference that a rider was having an injection to be fit for the next stage? Where as during the football world cup, injections to be fit for the next match were discussed at press conferences and put out in press releases without an eyebrow being raised...

To be fair there are a couple of football journalists who have been trying to break the football doping culture of don't test, don't find, don't ask. Those few are very vocal about it and your point gets raised constantly. They are however in the minority as, very similar to cycling, nobody wants to lose access or be made look like a fool. One prominent Spanish journalist/writer doesn't want to know a thing about doping in football (despite contradicting himself several times about what he knows and doesn't know) because he's written a few books about one club in particular and if it all came out all those years of work make him look like a fool.

Macy0161

gmacww wrote: »

To be fair there are a couple of football journalists who have been trying to break the football doping culture of don't test, don't find, don't ask. Those few are very vocal about it and your point gets raised constantly. They are however in the minority as, very similar to cycling, nobody wants to lose access or be made look like a fool. One prominent Spanish journalist/writer doesn't want to know a thing about doping in football (despite contradicting himself several times about what he knows and doesn't know) because he's written a few books about one club in particular and if it all came out all those years of work make him look like a fool.

There's very little acceptance from fans, who are quite happy to write off other sports like cycling or athletics or tennis as dirty though. All you get back is that football is a "game of skill", which somehow makes the aerobic effects of some drugs less effective in the sport. Apart from totally ignoring the recovery aspect, I heard a stat that I think was at the end of the group stages that they'd been 9 goals scored at 90 minutes plus! Cycling's problem is that former dopers are managers apparently, and then you look at the World Cup winners...

gmacww

Macy0161 wrote: »

There's very little acceptance from fans, who are quite happy to write off other sports like cycling or athletics or tennis as dirty though. All you get back is that football is a "game of skill", which somehow makes the aerobic effects of some drugs less effective in the sport. Apart from totally ignoring the recovery aspect, I heard a stat that I think was at the end of the group stages that they'd been 9 goals scored at 90 minutes plus! Cycling's problem is that former dopers are managers apparently, and then you look at the World Cup winners...

Yeah I completely agree with your points however I think we're seeing a change in cycling now as well. I've mentioned before why I think that aspect of football ignorance exists and I believe it comes down to the team support model which I think is starting to come into cycling now. Ask any team sky fan and they act and sound like football fans. Don't want to know, don't want to hear anything and even if you present with some evidence "sure they are all doing it".

neris

https://twitter.com/LeTour/status/1023842584941285376

Macy0161

gmacww wrote: »

Yeah I completely agree with your points however I think we're seeing a change in cycling now as well. I've mentioned before why I think that aspect of football ignorance exists and I believe it comes down to the team support model which I think is starting to come into cycling now. Ask any team sky fan and they act and sound like football fans. Don't want to know, don't want to hear anything and even if you present with some evidence "sure they are all doing it".

Well yes, and I think that's not just since Sky. It's really a new cycling market thing - we had it, and still have it, with Armstrong/ Postal too. But I think cycling fans have always used it for their favourite riders (with an element of truth to it to be fair!).

The teams are actively encouraging the whole team support thing (Vaughters has been pushing it for years) as it's a way of increasing their financial base through merchandise. Everyone is slagging the "Wolfpack" thing with Quickstep, but that's something they can market regardless of whether Quickstep remain headline sponsors or not*. And Vaughters has the whole "Argyle" thing going.

Actually on reflection some of the long established teams really have that kind of support too, if not by explicitly marketing it. For example Reynolds/ Banesto/ Caisse d'Epargne/ Movistar and even SystemU through it's various title sponsors through to Direct Energie with the whole Vendee regional thing have "team" supporters.

Lumen

Has this been posted yet? Cosmo.

How The Race Was Won: Thomas' unlikely triumph in dramatic Tour
https://video.eurosport.com/cycling/tour-de-france/2018/how-the-race-was-won-geraint-thomas-unlikely-triumph-in-dramatic-2018-tour-de-france_vid1111770/video.shtml

fryup

do you reckon Froome was told to hold back this year?? as there's so much scrutiny on him ??

neris

I was thinking that at 1 stage this morning but then why would he have not he'd back at the giro

mloc123

fryup wrote: »

do you reckon Froome was told to hold back this year?? as there's so much scrutiny on him ??

I posted in one of the stage threads on this, the cynic in me wonders..

Anyone have a screenshot of him with his tongue hanging out from Friday?

odyssey06

fryup wrote: »

do you reckon Froome was told to hold back this year?? as there's so much scrutiny on him ??

Maybe the Giro & Tour was too much for Froome and if he'd just done the Tour as in previous years he would have won it... You'd wonder also if Domoulin had sat out the Giro could he have won the Tour?

Wishbone Ash

nomdeboardie wrote: »

Re the tradition of not attacking the lead on the final day: what would happen if e.g. the times for the first 3 GC positions were close, and the 2nd and 3rd-placed riders needed to battle it out, but in doing so might pass the leader? And/or if leader were just having a really really bad day , but not bad enough to pull out sick/injured? [Apologies if these are silly Qs]

The tradition of not attacking the leader on the last day generally only applies when there are significant time differences between the top few. As the last stage is generally flat, there would be little to gain anyway (big gains are nearly always made in the mountains). In the days before radios, it was probably a bit more common as riders may not have been aware of significant developments. If there are only a few seconds seperating them, it's perfectly acceptable to attack. LeMond beat Fignon by 8 seconds to win the '89 tour (although it was a TT stage). I think Hinault may have won the TDF on the last day also but I'm open to correction.

(Prior to the 1970's, the TDF didn't end on the Champs Elysees so there was less of a 'victory parade' on the last day).

neris

https://twitter.com/geraintthomas/status/1023661584751714304

Cookie_Monster

Deleted User wrote: »

There are other payments but still if thats what teams collect after a 3 week race then it must be buttons for most on the other races. Make you realise how important sponsors are and how much they must pay out. One things for sure even if you have the 50 odd wins quickstep have this year, the prize money wouldn't make a dent in what it cost to run the team.

anyone any idea either 1) what major sponsors pay for a year? or 2) how much it actually costs per annum to run a world tour team?

Lumen

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

anyone any idea either 1) what major sponsors pay for a year? or 2) how much it actually costs per annum to run a world tour team?

20m.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xis1_1_Bfgg