Totally out of my depth with my 3.5 year old

shesty

Right, just turned four year old girl here.Strong willed, very intelligent, extremely articulate.3.5 was literally a total nightmare for about 2/3 months.It was awful.
Some very good advice here.Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.No shouting (do your best, we all have our bad days).Very little talking or persuading or negotiating, just clear choices, clear consequences and follow up on what you say.EVERYTHING you say (because let's face it, it's generally more difficult for the parent to endure the tantrum because you turned off the tv like you said you would, rather than be the child who's tv has been turned off....)Routine helps hugely.Mirrorwall we would be the same as you in many ways, although I don't distract generally.(can't say if that's better or worse!)
Lots of positive praise
Two other observations....grandparents need to be on board with you.You are dealing with the fallout of their 'parenting' of her.She is most likely acting out with you because she is essentially in control with them and that's too much for a 3.5 year old to handle, she needs adults to be adults for her.I know my little one throws her worst behaviour at those she feels can handle it...those she respects.Something that a playschool teacher observed.Bear it in mind, and be that person.It is really bloody hard but she will get through it.

happywithlife

Some good responses
For my 2c worth

When and then

When you do x then you will get y
When x is over then you must do y

It breaks it down for my small man and several times he'll ignore a simple request but jump to it when its phrased like this

Lots telling you it is normal and yes it is BUT on the other hand trust your gut if you think there may more to it and especially trust any info/advice given by creche and be mindful they very often approach it from a gentle suggestion point of view to avoid confrontation with a parent in denial (not necessarily saying you are just the way others might be)

Neyite

Yeah, that age was very tricky here too. Plenty of build up warnings and countdowns helped, and eventually if you keep at it, you'll get there, giving choices and like another poster, nice voices used got results not screaming or whinging.

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

I thought I was genuinely have to sell him on eBay :pac:

I'm shocked you'd say something like that.

You made him. That stuff goes on Etsy. :P

dekey

If it's of any slight comfort when you say she has been extra bad these past 2 weeks, my normally angelic 3.5 year old has been an absolute bag of cats the last few weeks and I'm putting it down to the weather. I'm just putting it out there that it might be an element as to why she's worse than usual. My girl is exhausted by the time I pick her up from crèche, she's lethargic and sweaty and emotional, if we look at her funny she's bursting into tears and a lot of parents in the crèche are saying the same about their kids. I'm not saying it's the reason for behavioural problems I'm just saying to maybe consider it might be partly why she's worse than usual

scarepanda

Alot of good advice there. My girl is coming up on 2, so I don't have any age specific advice for you. But I do think you need to get the grandparents onboard. You are the child's parents, so, unless you are putting her at risk, they need to follow your lead on how to parent her, how to deal with unwanted behaviour, have the same process for warnings etc.

We (or mainly I, because I'm a SAHM) seem to parent differently than our family and there's a few who would be quite active with my girl when they are around who are not on the same page as us. One aunt in particular has said that she can't say no to my girl. And it's a nightmare. Our girl is strong willed so we generally pick our battles with her, we don't stress over the small stuff, but family are constantly giving out to her for those minor things, when we are around and aware of whatever she's at and cause a strop over nothing. On the other hand we want to limit phone time and yet they go against us by giving (bribing) her their new expensive phones and a strop is caused when she doesn't want to get off it. I have my family sorted out, but there are still issues with my husband's family. I'm hesitant on getting involved, I'd much prefer for him to deal with it, but my patience is wearing thin so I probably will have to takle it straight on, otherwise it will cause problems when she's older.

shesty

So true.Heat is driving our household demented.
Scarepanda you're not that different, we don't do phones etc. here either.Stick to your guns, it will stand to you in the longterm.
Is it just me or are there more girls than boys that are "strong willed"?!!!!!!

scarepanda

Ah I know we're not that different to a lot of other parents with kids the same age, it's just with the grandparents, and siblings. She's the first grandchild on both sides so gets spoilt rotten by everyone and obviously none of our siblings have experience of having to deal with a toddler 'in this day and age' when everyone's gone home!

I think the biggest difference as to how we parent, that our family find difficult to go along with, is that we give her an awful lot of freedom for her age within a controlled structure, as in we don't stress about the small things, we are consistent, she knows when she's pushing it to far and that we will follow through on our threats if she's acting out. We don't mollycoddle her at all, she falls over we don't go running to pick her up etc. Shes a natural climber, so we generally let her off. We make sure she's not going to fall or otherwise hurt herself but usually stand back and let her figure stuff out for herself. We don't usually actively stand right beside her helping her physically climb unless she's really stuck. I don't know if that make sense, but the family find it very hard to give her a bit of space and want to solve all her problems for her right there and then. Even when she's having one of those short lived strops because she's not getting her own way, they come rushing in and sure that only makes things worse cos she plays up to the attention then. She has my temper so I kind of know the stages of when to let her work it out her self and when she needs us to get involved. There's a few in his family that completely ignore anything I have to say because it goes against their instincts and it drives me cracked. I'm very close to speaking up, the problem is that I can be a little too direct for some people's liking and there's one in particular, probably the worst offender, that will get into a huff with me. It would be nice if they could follow the parents lead!

Gulliver

This is all really good advice. We've just had our first and this is worrying me slightly for when he gets older. I hope I'll remain calm and explain things.

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’ll repeat ‘do NOT start a shouting match with your child’.

My dad never shouted at me. When he was mad, his voice would go really, really quiet. Scared the bejeesus out of me.
My mother made up for it by getting animated and shouting over anything. I remember it got so that I'd ignore her if she was shouting, unless she said "I'll tell your father when he gets home".

mirrorwall14

Gulliver wrote: »

This is all really good advice. We've just had our first and this is worrying me slightly for when he gets older. I hope I'll remain calm and explain things.



My dad never shouted at me. When he was mad, his voice would go really, really quiet. Scared the bejeesus out of me.
My mother made up for it by getting animated and shouting over anything. I remember it got so that I'd ignore her if she was shouting, unless she said "I'll tell your father when he gets home".

My parents were similar. They’d let the odd yell at each other but with us and behaviour it was all the quiet ‘we’re so disappointed in you’. Heartbreaking lol!

mordeith

Baby4 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Do the grandparents have time with her alone? I know whenever our youngest lad is minded by his grandparents he's a demon afterwards because they basically refuse to say anything to him about any bad behaviour and basically respond to all his requests (plus they always bring sweets). Luckily this is only once or twice a fortnight but if it was on a more regular basis I could see how he would then think we were the worst parents ever if we followed the same lenient path.
For the record he's well behaved the majority of the time :cool:

Cocobeans101

I think you and your partner AND grandparents should have a united front. Sit down as adults, make the rules and stick by them.

Don't be afraid of a tantrum in public or private.


Kids need boundaries, clean, clear and unwavering.

shesty

scarepanda wrote: »

Ah I know we're not that different to a lot of other parents with kids the same age, it's just with the grandparents, and siblings. She's the first grandchild on both sides so gets spoilt rotten by everyone and obviously none of our siblings have experience of having to deal with a toddler 'in this day and age' when everyone's gone home!

I think the biggest difference as to how we parent, that our family find difficult to go along with, is that we give her an awful lot of freedom for her age within a controlled structure, as in we don't stress about the small things, we are consistent, she knows when she's pushing it to far and that we will follow through on our threats if she's acting out. We don't mollycoddle her at all, she falls over we don't go running to pick her up etc. Shes a natural climber, so we generally let her off. We make sure she's not going to fall or otherwise hurt herself but usually stand back and let her figure stuff out for herself. We don't usually actively stand right beside her helping her physically climb unless she's really stuck. I don't know if that make sense, but the family find it very hard to give her a bit of space and want to solve all her problems for her right there and then. Even when she's having one of those short lived strops because she's not getting her own way, they come rushing in and sure that only makes things worse cos she plays up to the attention then. She has my temper so I kind of know the stages of when to let her work it out her self and when she needs us to get involved. There's a few in his family that completely ignore anything I have to say because it goes against their instincts and it drives me cracked. I'm very close to speaking up, the problem is that I can be a little too direct for some people's liking and there's one in particular, probably the worst offender, that will get into a huff with me. It would be nice if they could follow the parents lead!

Yes I am right there with you!Thankfully on one side we are ok, the other side though....

Derailing the thread, Janet Lansbury's type of parenting is mostly my aim, giving freedom and simplicity.Look her up if you haven't heard of her already-at least you'll feel like you're not crazy on the bad days!

Cocobeans101

Conservatory wrote: »

I agree with you in the too much child psychology stuff but hitting people first just teaches them to hit first.
There is a whole arsenal of tools at your disposal to get people to do what you want an unruly child can learn these skills from you or they can learn hitting skills from you.

Agreed, people who have to resort to violence to discipline a child are just poor parents.

What sort of message is it that you can hit someone who is smaller and dependent on you but once they’re an adult it is unacceptable.

Basically, lazy crap parents.

scarepanda

shesty wrote: »

Yes I am right there with you!Thankfully on one side we are ok, the other side though....

Derailing the thread, Janet Lansbury's type of parenting is mostly my aim, giving freedom and simplicity.Look her up if you haven't heard of her already-at least you'll feel like you're not crazy on the bad days!

We are the same now, mainly coz I nipped it in the bud with my side, well 90% at least. I'm hesitant to put my foot down with his side, but himself isn't around a lot of the time they call out or is off doing something with one of them.

I haven't heard of her, but I'll look her up! I'm not into the parenting labels, but I came across a post on another site that listed different types of parenting and the closest description I found to what we generally do is 'lighthouse' parenting. Basically your there for them completely emotionally, but let them have a certain amount of freedom while still being their rock. Kind of giving them the confidence to go off on their own while always knowing your there for them when they need you. Obviously that doesn't mean letting them run round ferral or anything, they still have their boundaries.

Anyways, sorry for pulling the thread off in a different direction!

OP, just another thing, and I don't know how well it will work for you, but when my girl is acting up, I get down on my hunkers to her level and speak calmly to her. I will first tell her what behaviour is expected Vs what she is at (I try not tell her she's being bold, as opposed to her behaviour being unacceptable), and her first warning. If she keeps it up, back down on my hunkers and give her a final warning, (what I expect off her, what will happen if she doesn't start behaving, then ask her does she want (whatever the 'punishment' is) and a 3,2,1 countdown (I always count down with my fingers to 1, even when she does what I want)). If she complies she gets lots of praise and if she doesn't I follow through on the threat. You won't have to be the hard ass all the time for long if your consistent, but you need to always be prepared to follow through. The punishment here is into timeout for a calm period of minutes of her age (which is two), the clock restarts everytime she starts protesting. It's amazing how quickly they learn you mean business!
Regarding the acting of for attention even if it's negative, I think you need to try ignore it for the most part, as hard as they may be (we do and get awful looks off people for not trying to solve her problem when she's just looking for attention) and make a very serious, conscious effort to priase her for good behaviour, no matter how small it is.

shesty

Agreed, I'm not myself but she has some good behavioural tips for dealing with toddlers as they get more difficult (and they do!!) that have been so useful to me, and her approach would be similar to yours.

Don't get me wrong, I fail at it a lot but it's good to have a bit of direction in how to address some things on the bad days!!

scarepanda

shesty wrote: »

Agreed, I'm not myself but she has some good behavioural tips for dealing with toddlers as they get more difficult (and they do!!) that have been so useful to me, and her approach would be similar to yours.

Don't get me wrong, I fail at it a lot but it's good to have a bit of direction in how to address some things on the bad days!!

Sheesty, we all fail at something at some point or another! No one is perfect and being a parent can be so bloody frustrating at times. It's normal to loose your cool on occasion as long as you try your best 99% of the time. Deep breaths!

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

Malayalam

Baby4 wrote: »

Thank you so much for all your suggestions!

We’ve implemented the ‘offering choices’ thing, which seems to have improved her mood a bit, although sometimes she refuses to make any choice.

We’re still at a loss as to managing her tantrums. They are so out of control that she’s putting herself in danger when she has them. We’ve noticed that she intentionally hurts herself in some way when she doesn’t get what she wants, she’ll jump on the ground, hurting herself, or she’ll bang her head off the nearest wall or door. Then she squeals for us to help her because she’s hurt.

I feel like the worst parent ever.

That must be very upsetting for you. Sorry to hear. I have no experience of that but have heard it does happen. Would be inclined to try holding them loosely while they act out in that case, just repeating calming sounds and words. Best of luck. You are a great parent so don't worry about that aspect at all.

scarepanda

Baby4, my girl does that as well, so don't feel bad, I think most do it at some stage or another. I notice that my girl plays up to it if she does it Infront of someone and they react. My policy is to try avoid her hitting her head, say off a hard surface by either putting something soft underneath her, or moving her to a less hard surface. I don't feed her attention seeking by giving her attention in the moment, when I move her/put something under her head I don't say a word to her. It's only after when she's looking for sympathy I tell her that she gets none because it was self inflicted. And when she's calmed down a minute or two later I explain to her that she can't be doing X,y,z. Shes not 2 yet, so I don't know how much she understands, but she doesn't do the head walloping around me as much as she used to.

Savage93

Moderated

shesty

And based on the fact that I'm currently also parenting a just four year old, I'd say she is just the parent of a three year old, and their ability to make you feel like you are totally and utterly useless and way out of your depth is astounding.

Parenting classes may help, but seriously how is your response in anyway helpful?

Otherwise I'd agree with the previous poster.This is just her thing to get attention.Mine is currently going through a phase of screaming like a banshee in pure anger when she doesn't get what she wants.I ignore it (occasionally I explode and tell her where to take herself -depending on the situation- but I certainly don't chamge my mind).I would be giving your little one zero attention in those situations and sticking to your guns.

And you aren't the worst parent ever.Honestly.I have had a really rough couple of days with my four year old , and I feel exactly the same.And by rough I mean I am fighting with her on everything and it just gets exhausting.(And boring!!!Really boring having the same stupid rows over the same stupid things every day!I mean I'm not going to change my mind, why am I still fighting it every day with her???) Just stay firm and be consistent and know that you really aren't the only one with this problem.

brokensoul

Savage93 wrote: »

Based on 25 years of dealing I'd say she is suffering from an increasingly common condition termed PARENTIS BOLLLOXITIS, generally a result of a parent or parents being incapable of looking after themselves let alone a child.
give into her every time, give her everyhting she ever wants and create a child in your likeness.
But seriously you NEED parenting classes

That is really unhelpful.

Maybe have a think about what is missing from your life that makes you want to try and shame a stranger on the internet.

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

Ms2011

Baby4 you've probably read me vent in the April 2015 thread about my girl, she sounds alot like yours.
Like you I am not a push over parent, she has rules, gets consequences etc. but my God can she be a handful (putting it mildly) at times.
We're still finding things that work with her, we are making some head way but she is still very much a work in progress.
Just to say you are not alone x

Anne_cordelia

Baby4 wrote: »

After the troll Savage93 made those comments today, I’ve been thinking:

We (as parents) really have it tough these days. Whether we’re trying to hold down jobs or are stay-at-home parents, it’s such a busy stressful world that we live in. Between dealing with (sometimes angry/difficult) kids, grandparents, childminding, bosses, work colleagues, bills, etc, we really all are great.

How dare anyone point a finger at me, calling me a bad parent, when just because I posted on a public forum that I’m struggling, I must be incapable of parenting effectively.

So thank you to all the other lovely parents who took the time to offer advice. It really is invaluable xx

Sorry you had to read that. I reported it hoping it would be removed ASAP. Please ignore it.

scarepanda

Baby4, you are not a bad parent. The fact that you are aware that your child's behaviour at this particular moment in time isn't acceptable and you are trying to figure out a different approach from what you have already used to try get it back under control means that you are in fact a good parent. I think any parent who tries telling you that their child never behaved in an unwanted way are liers. Even the best behaved child has moments and periods of behaving badly, and a lot of the time it's because of their stage of development and not knowing how to express whatever is going on in their heads.
For what it's worth, I reported the troll aswell, because a parent who's trying to rectify a situation does not need to hear that kind of ****e.

volchitsa

scarepanda wrote: »

Baby4, you are not a bad parent. The fact that you are aware that your child's behaviour at this particular moment in time isn't acceptable and you are trying to figure out a different approach from what you have already used to try get it back under control means that you are in fact a good parent. I think any parent who tries telling you that their child never behaved in an unwanted way are liers. Even the best behaved child has moments and periods of behaving badly, and a lot of the time it's because of their stage of development and not knowing how to express whatever is going on in their heads.
For what it's worth, I reported the troll aswell, because a parent who's trying to rectify a situation does not need to hear that kind of ****e.

I agree with this 100%. Bad parenting is defensively refusing to see that there is a problem at all.

Good parenting is questioning whether your own possible mistakes (who doesn't make mistakes?) are contributing to a problem and also working out new ways of improving things.

That's exactly what you're doing.

dori_dormer

3.5 is am exceptionally tough age! It nearly broke me with my eldest!

I find that now ive 2 strong willed boys there's way more tantrums, less one on one times less connections and WAY more shouting. If I shout and lose my cool they see that as the way to deal with people and their frustrations.
My older fella was too smart for choices. Always just said no, neither etc
I'm listening to an audio book, ' how to talk so little kids will listen' basically just by changing how you phrase things you can have a completely different outcome. You don't back down or negotiate etc parent stays in control.
So far it's all about acknowledging their feelings. Even if they seem ridiculous. They just want to be heard. The book gives loads of examples.
Also the concept of 'filling up their bucket' of good feelings every morning (and during the day) but I find if I give them 5 minutes each of positive interaction without demanding anything of them first thing really changes their while mid for the day

shesty

Dori_dormer, I totally echo your post (and am also extremely relieved that someone else's house sounds like ours).
My eldest (4) is currently testing boundaries big style, knowing we have a newborn and are often caught feeding him, so can't always follow up the way we would like to.She's lucky she hasn't been permanently excommunicated from the house at this stage!!!!!
I find that if I am having problems, I have to try changing my behaviour/reaction first, and theirs will follow suit.But god it's hard.
My faint hope is that maybe the teenage years will go easy on us after these years.....

volchitsa

shesty wrote: »

Dori_dormer, I totally echo your post (and am also extremely relieved that someone else's house sounds like ours).
My eldest (4) is currently testing boundaries big style, knowing we have a newborn and are often caught feeding him, so can't always follow up the way we would like to.She's lucky she hasn't been permanently excommunicated from the house at this stage!!!!!
I find that if I am having problems, I have to try changing my behaviour/reaction first, and theirs will follow suit.But god it's hard.
My faint hope is that maybe the teenage years will go easy on us after these years.....

Not a faint hope at all, IME. My youngest child is now 17, and the others are young adults, so Ive a good bit of distance in all that now, and my observation from numerous friends and family are that the more time and thought you put into the difficult early years will absolutely stand to you when the teenage years strike.

I used to quite worry about teenagerhood, (like I said, my eldest was very difficult) but honestly apart from a few predictable teenager "issues", mostly fairly easily handled, they were all fine. And he was actually much easier than his sister who had been a perfect little girl. But they do say girls are often harder as teens, and looking back I think I was probably a nightmare myself when I was a teen. But I was terribly hormonal and probably suffered more than my parents!

Basically I think the strength of relationship you've built up before that age makes all the difference when they get to that moody stage.

There's also a sort of period of grace around ages 6-10 after toddlerhood and before puberty, when even the most difficult children are usually fairly ok - but the ones that go off the rails a bit after that do tend to be the ones where there were major unresolved issues and/or "uninterested" parents. Not always through their own fault - there are outside factors too of course.

But basically, if you can get a handle on things now, it will stand to you later, even if there are other problems. And there may not be.