Beaches left in an absolute STATE....why are we a filthy nation?

Eric Cartman

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

I remember as a 9 or 10 year old I opened an ice pop and just dropped the wrapper on the ground as you do, my mother hit me the stingiest slap on the hand, it's still stinging 20 years later. Needless to say I don't litter anymore. Was brought up in a fairly rough council estate too.

Obviously there are decent parents trapped in those places but i'd say what gave you the idea to throw it on the ground in the first place was your surroundings and not many mothers were as socially conscious as your own.

Sadb

It is largely a working class area problem. I live in a council estate and you should see the state of some neighbours front/back gardens. I may live in a council house but why would I want to make my home look like a **** hole?! It truly baffles me, but then not at all surprising the state in which beaches etc are left. Of course not all or just working class litter, but definitely majority.

The whole mindset needs to change though, I’ve heard of people that don’t use their compost bins (which are compulsory now in this area) because they are “disgusting and full of bugs”- eh, ya, that’s how it becomes compost! The local primary schools have numerous green flags so it is a condition that children take home all of their own rubbish, the amount of parents that give out about this is just crazy. What exactly is the issue with throwing your own child’s litter/leftovers in your own bin?

It doesn’t matter if there are zero bins anywhere, everyone should take home their own litter. Not having a bin available is not an excuse to litter.

dr.fuzzenstein

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The idea that this is an Irish only thing is ludicrous. Happens everywhere. Other countries have tractors out cleaning beaches every morning so you never really see it. I always put mine in a carry bag and dump in first bin I see.

I once walked through Kilkenny at night after all the pubs had closed and everyone has had a Supermacs.
There was a sea of rubbish strewn across the front of Supermacs that was ankle deep.
You had to wade through the crap.
Yes it is an Irish thing and No you wouldn't see it anywhere else. At least not in another European country.

_Puma_

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

The idea that this is an Irish only thing is ludicrous. Happens everywhere. Other countries have tractors out cleaning beaches every morning so you never really see it. I always put mine in a carry bag and dump in first bin I see.

In the large it is. I've been through the countryside in lots of different countries including the UK. Ireland is by far the worst for roadside litter. Granted tourist hotspots in other countries get trafficked a lot more and may appear worse but that is nothing compared to the widespread epidemic of littering here

Sadb wrote: »

It is largely a working class area problem. I live in a council estate and you should see the state of some neighbours front/back gardens. I may live in a council house but why would I want to make my home look like a **** hole?! It truly baffles me, but then not at all surprising the state in which beaches etc are left. Of course not all or just working class litter, but definitely majority.

I don't agree with this. It is widespread in all sections of Irish life and to be honest i think a lot of it is more visible in certain age profile. As the poster above pointed out about the state of our cities late at night, or after festivals. Remember the photos of the wasteland left in punchestown campsites after the the Oxygen music festivals. I don't recall anything like those scenes back when it was witness, or whatever it was called, or some of the earlier music festivals around the country. Personal responsibility is something that seems to lacking in a lot of the younger generation including mine.

Sadb wrote: »

The whole mindset needs to change though, I’ve heard of people that don’t use their compost bins (which are compulsory now in this area) because they are “disgusting and full of bugs”- eh, ya, that’s how it becomes compost! The local primary schools have numerous green flags so it is a condition that children take home all of their own rubbish, the amount of parents that give out about this is just crazy. What exactly is the issue with throwing your own child’s litter/leftovers in your own bin?

It doesn’t matter if there are zero bins anywhere, everyone should take home their own litter. Not having a bin available is not an excuse to litter.

Education is key. Personal responsibility is a life talent in all walks of life from your professional career to looking after the environment. Thats the carrot, the stick is the enforcement of littering fines, be it the Gardai or Litter wardens during spells like we have now.

Ultimate Seduction

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I once walked through Kilkenny at night after all the pubs had closed and everyone has had a Supermacs.
There was a sea of rubbish strewn across the front of Supermacs that was ankle deep.
You had to wade through the crap.
Yes it is an Irish thing and No you wouldn't see it anywhere else. At least not in another European country.

You ever been to the UK? It's the exact same on a Saturday night in every town I've been. I've also been to a football match in Stuttgart and the same there. Anywhere lots of alcohol being consumed will be littered doesn't matter the country.

Dubh Geannain

This sounds like another, "needs to be thought in schools" problem. Not. Adults are some of the worst culprits.

People need to cop the fudge on. Unfortunately, having spent 10+ years in shared rental accommodation it's quite obvious the levels of filth that some people are quite comfortable living in.

We've managed to curb the drink driving culture to a great extent, I'd like to see similar campaigns for environmental and social issues.

Macy0161

Stuff you can see isn't the worst problem on the beaches. It's the idiots that bury hot BBQ's a couple of cm's down that are the real menace at the moment. Or just leave a hot bbq on the ground in the shower area (as my niece witnessed in Brittas yesterday!).

I actually wonder is it time to ban their sale, given this type of practice, and they're responsible for at least one of the recent gorse fires.

Wheeliebin30

“Working class” areas is now a very loosely used term to what it used to mean.

whisky_galore

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

This sounds like another, "needs to be thought in schools" problem. Not. Adults are some of the worst culprits.
.

Monkey see - monkey do.

theyoungchap

Macy0161 wrote: »

Or just leave a hot bbq on the ground in the shower area (as my niece witnessed in Brittas yesterday!).

I actually wonder is it time to ban their sale, given this type of practice, and they're responsible for at least one of the recent gorse fires.

They should 100% be banned from beaches. Why should somebody be allowed to come sit beside you and light up a BBQ?

On the plus side, I watched a programme about them before, and I would not eat anything off them given the chemicals which had penetrated the food compared to other BBQ's, it could help eradicate some of this population

_Dara_

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

We like to think we’re this great little nation who the world loves.

Truth is we’re not, some are decent people but a lot have no personal responsibility, no pride in their country, are of the opinion someone else should clean up after them and pay for services.

Seems in the last 15 years the country has gone down the toilet bowl.

Selfish is the word.

How nice of you to grant that some of us are decent people. Very big of you.

Every time I’m at the beach, I do the Two Minute Beach Clean thing. If many people got involved, it could make a big difference. Not that we shouldn’t be trying to educate people too. We can do both.

whisky_galore

Macy0161 wrote: »

Stuff you can see isn't the worst problem on the beaches. It's the idiots that bury hot BBQ's a couple of cm's down that are the real menace at the moment. Or just leave a hot bbq on the ground in the shower area (as my niece witnessed in Brittas yesterday!).

I actually wonder is it time to ban their sale, given this type of practice, and they're responsible for at least one of the recent gorse fires.

I saw a lot of nice parks in Australia with bbqs that you could use, some of them are even free to use. Couldn't have those here, they'd be robbed or vandalised.

theyoungchap

whisky_galore wrote: »

I saw a lot of nice parks in Australia with bbqs that you could use, some of them are even free to use. Couldn't have those here, they'd be robbed or vandalised.

I love those and they are a great idea. The difference is they also clean them up after themselves, here it would be up to somebody else to clean up after some scrote - "why can't the council do it for me" would be the attitude.

splinter65

_Dara_ wrote: »

How nice of you to grant that some of us are decent people. Very big of you.

Every time I’m at the beach, I do the Two Minute Beach Clean thing. If many people got involved, it could make a big difference. Not that we shouldn’t be trying to educate people too. We can do both.

Point is, some citizens are decent people, some are indecent.
The poster is absolutely correct.
You may want, and be happy to, spend 2 minutes picking up litter, but loads of day trippers at the beach or any other public amenity simply refuse to pick up after themselves, never mind pick up after anyone else.
That’s because they live in a world where they never ever have to do anything if it doesn’t suit them.
Because it’s someone else’s job to do that for them.
Once you accept that there are a large cohort of our society who live and think like that, and you accept that you are one of the people who they think should clean up after them, then the picture becomes a lot clearer, and you stop getting frustrated and annoyed.

facehugger99

theyoungchap wrote: »

I love those and they are a great idea. The difference is they also clean them up after themselves, here it would be up to somebody else to clean up after some scrote - "why can't the council do it for me" would be the attitude.

The council have recently got rid of a designated BBQ area in the Phoenix Park.

Apparently the amount of rubbish being left there by people was ridiculous.

httphttps://www.dublininquirer.com/2018/05/29/outdoor-bbqs-are-now-banned-from-phoenix-park/

People who say it's the same everywhere are talking bollox. There are certain countries where it's also a problem but Irish people are particularly dirty with very little social conscience. If you travel extensively, you'd see that. The only other place where I saw a similar attitude was French Polynesia. From talking to locals there, they suggested that there was an attitude that mother France would take care of it.

We have a similar hangover from our colonial past

theyoungchap

Bog in Wicklow burned by a disposable BBQ.....only in Ireland would people be so irresponsible.

HeidiHeidi

theyoungchap wrote: »

Bog in Wicklow burned by a disposable BBQ.....only in Ireland would people be so irresponsible.

Another bog burned due to a fire thought to have been started maliciously. What sort of an ignorant fúcker would you want to be to actually start a fire in weather like this?

gingernut79

theyoungchap wrote: »

And do you really think we should pay for that rather than change a mindset? How much would a fleet of them cost our public finances?

Less than the fleet of snowploughs that are also used once in a blue moon no doubt...

theyoungchap

gingernut79 wrote: »

theyoungchap wrote: »

And do you really think we should pay for that rather than change a mindset? How much would a fleet of them cost our public finances?

Less than the fleet of snowploughs that are also used once in a blue moon no doubt...

What fleet of snow ploughs? Most of them are attachments for the front of a truck

rom

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

“Working class” areas is now a very loosely used term to what it used to mean.

You are splitting hairs here. In areas that are less privileged the problem with litter is generally worse. But the area I live in used to have a very very bad little problem when I first moved here. Through the years and a tidy towns group that is active almost on a nightly basis has changed the perception of the area. From an area that you would get ridiculed from being from is now an area that a lot of people want to live in. There are council estates here but they are kept well. I suppose my point is that litter has a huge effect on an area but it can be changed around. Sadly there is probably the same amount of litter being dumped in the area but its cleaned up almost instantly by volunteer groups.

There should be no refuse charges and it should be just built into tax. I would rather pay more so people don't fly tip.

So getting back to why the bins are full at the beach. They are full as they are tiny. They are tiny as people will dump domestic waste if they are too big so only way is to have no charge on it anywhere but pay for it indirectly through taxation.

facehugger99

rom wrote: »

There should be no refuse charges and it should be just built into tax. I would rather pay more so people don't fly tip.

So getting back to why the bins are full at the beach. They are full as they are tiny. They are tiny as people will dump domestic waste if they are too big so only way is to have no charge on it anywhere but pay for it indirectly through taxation.

So, narrow the tax base?

theyoungchap

rom wrote: »

You are splitting hairs here. In areas that are less privileged the problem with litter is generally worse. But the area I live in used to have a very very bad little problem when I first moved here. Through the years and a tidy towns group that is active almost on a nightly basis has changed the perception of the area. From an area that you would get ridiculed from being from is now an area that a lot of people want to live in. There are council estates here but they are kept well. I suppose my point is that litter has a huge effect on an area but it can be changed around. Sadly there is probably the same amount of litter being dumped in the area but its cleaned up almost instantly by volunteer groups.

There should be no refuse charges and it should be just built into tax. I would rather pay more so people don't fly tip.

So getting back to why the bins are full at the beach. They are full as they are tiny. They are tiny as people will dump domestic waste if they are too big so only way is to have no charge on it anywhere but pay for it indirectly through taxation.

No bloody way. We cannot just put everything on the PAYE worker. I think the government should manage the disposal of waste (to make sure we don't end up with cowboys like the lads on RTE investigates recently) but the polluter pays principle must apply - we just need people to accept that they need to pay for something for once.

A deposit on bottles, a ban on disposable BBQ's, massive fines for dumping and not taking rubbish off the beaches, etc would be a start.

Wheeliebin30

facehugger99 wrote: »

So, narrow the tax base?

Of course, sure someone else can pay for it.

Remember the simpsons episode where homer was appointed in charge of rubbish was it?

Can’t someone else do it!!!!

Del.Monte

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Of course, sure someone else can pay for it.

Remember the simpsons episode where homer was appointed in charge of rubbish was it?

Can’t someone else do it!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=boAWFriUsMo

realitykeeper

brookers wrote: »

How come some families dont litter and other families do, is it to do with your upbringing? i would never dream of leaving even a tissue on a beach. Are Irish people a little bit on the dirty side I wonder compared to other nations....I found when I came to Dublin first, sharing with people, I would be a lot cleaner, clean counter tops, not leave food uncovered etc yet people i lived with would leave toilets dirty, throw rubbish around, lets flies land on their food..girls were terrible for leaving mess..Wouldnt it be great if we had those guys patrolling called the eyes in the handmaid tale with big guns and if they see anybody throwing nappies and dog poo around they would be strung up on the wall for all to see....it is just all so depressing the litter.....

I think a nation can be motivated and this can become a cultural trait. What motivates a country depends on the national conversation. The Dutch were once obsessed with building dykes to keep the sea out. The Germans were persuaded by the Nazis to go to war.

The problem with things like litter on the beaches, the national debt and Ireland`s carbon footprint is that we do not talk about these things enough. If Joe Duffy was asked to talk about these things he would get bored. People in this country talk about institutional abuse and other sob stories. These matters, and the urban rural divide are divisive anyway so the conversation is more an argument than a common consensus.

Kamili

I took a tour of Ardnacrusha power station recently and they have built a rig to pick up trash that runs the length of the dam, they fill a skip up 3 times a day of the rubbish thrown into the Shannon. Apparently something that is dumped or thrown in up at Lough Derg arrives at the powerstation within 48-72 hours.

BobMc

Interesting, I live about 2mins from power station, must hit up a tour

Kamili

BobMc wrote: »

Interesting, I live about 2mins from power station, must hit up a tour

Off topic sorry but linky



http://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/generation-energy-trading-new/ardnacrusha-tours

dr.fuzzenstein

Kamili wrote: »

Off topic sorry but linky



http://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/generation-energy-trading-new/ardnacrusha-tours

I was there on business and they showed me around the whole thing.
Deeply fascinating. Can only recommend.
Mine wasn't an official tour, just the guy showing me round.

iamwhoiam

One of the biggest problem in this country is the lack of law enforcement . Nothing seems to have consequences and law breaking has no punishment or reprimand . The law might state not to litter but even if seen there are no consequences