3 month trial for apprenticeship

jettamk6

Hi ive recently offered a 3 month trial for an apprenticeship and i was just looking for feedback from people who've done this. when an employer usually says that do they usually mean cash in hand when they say trial period or is it by the books? its a plumbing apprenticeship with a fairly small company that ive been offered a job with if thats any help.

OMM 0000

It's really impossible to know.

I feel like this is something you can ask your employer.

I understand it is not good if they are paying you under the table, but the important thing here is this:

* Show up on time
* Don't be hungover or smelling of booze
* Seem enthusiastic
* Try to remember what they tell you

If I could go back in time, I'd love to be a plumber, electrician or carpenter. Take advantage of the opportunity in front of you!

LandersDublin

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi ive recently offered a 3 month trial for an apprenticeship and i was just looking for feedback from people who've done this. when an employer usually says that do they usually mean cash in hand when they say trial period or is it by the books? its a plumbing apprenticeship with a fairly small company that ive been offered a job with if thats any help.

It won't be cash in hand unless he is a cowboy. The trial is usually a month and it's just to see if the applicant will meet the standards required. It costs companies to register an apprentice for tech so they need to be sure your not a jackass (not offending u) just stating the jobs outlook.

wiz569

No they wont mean cash in hand,it just means there is a 3 month trial/probation period,

Now this could be as part of your apprenticeship or as a precursor to it to see if he thinks you are suitable before he actually hires you as a plumbing apprentice.

jettamk6

OMM 0000 wrote: »

It's really impossible to know.

I feel like this is something you can ask your employer.

I understand it is not good if they are paying you under the table, but the important thing here is this:

* Show up on time
* Don't be hungover or smelling of booze
* Seem enthusiastic
* Try to remember what they tell you

If I could go back in time, I'd love to be a plumber, electrician or carpenter. Take advantage of the opportunity in front of you!

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

billybonkers

jettamk6 wrote: »

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

Tell him you want to accept it and where should you send him your p45 and bank details? Also ask him what the rate of pay is and how often you can expect to be paid. He will soon let you know his intentions

OMM 0000

jettamk6 wrote: »

i prefer if it was by the the books but i mean who is going to that for only tree months. And i also dont want this just to be a ruse just to have me for 3 months work. How would i go about asking if its cash in hand Im sort off afraid to ask that in case offend it offends him. but i dont want to show up on the job and find out.

Honestly I would just be straight up.

"Is this cash in hand or on the books?".

"Why are you asking this?"

"I'd just like to know".

"Do you have a problem with cash in hand?"

"Obviously I'd prefer if it was on the books, but you know, I'm flexible".

You get the idea.

salmocab

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

Hellrazer

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

Conservatory

Every two lads that start, one of them leaves after a few weeks. Some people don’t like being barked at by a man under pressure, some don’t like to get up ladders, some don’t like to walk fast, some are scared of grinders and some just don’t realize it’s hard work. Some end up on fire watch for a few months or standing at the bottom of a cherry picker telling people to be careful and not walk into it.

It’s not for everybody. I unclogged a dishwasher in my way home. (I seem to always get calls for feckin clogged dishwashers) when an apprentice sees you rummaging through somebodies week old food some of them there and then decide it’s not for them.

I’m not sure how hard it is to get rid of an apprentice but I’m guessing fairly hard. There’s one drunk in my company that nobody will work with, they still keep him on even though he’s a third or fourth year now. When he gets qualified he will be let go the very same day. But until then he just keeps getting made up jobs.

So I suppose the trial is fair enough for everybody.

BattleCorp

If he wants you to work for cash, it probably won't lead to a proper apprenticeship.

I'd take it if it isn't for cash.

jettamk6

believe me im at appoint in my live where im thinking long term as im a few years older than the usual apprentice so im thinking in terms of something i can make a career out of. by the way what trade are you in?

meeeeh

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

It doesn't work like that. We had apprentices stuck in phase one because Solas wouldn't call them for quite a while, it depends when they start and when the courses start. If I remember correctly you have to register apprentice in two weeks after they start work but I will admit we had a trial period for two we were not sure about (the rest were registered straight away). We never kept anyone longer in phase one because we could pay them less. But if you have only couple of employees and are taking on an apprentice you really would want to make sure they are suitable.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Every two lads that start, one of them leaves after a few weeks. Some people don’t like being barked at by a man under pressure, some don’t like to get up ladders, some don’t like to walk fast, some are scared of grinders and some just don’t realize it’s hard work. Some end up on fire watch for a few months or standing at the bottom of a cherry picker telling people to be careful and not walk into it.

It’s not for everybody. I unclogged a dishwasher in my way home. (I seem to always get calls for feckin clogged dishwashers) when an apprentice sees you rummaging through somebodies week old food some of them there and then decide it’s not for them.

I’m not sure how hard it is to get rid of an apprentice but I’m guessing fairly hard. There’s one drunk in my company that nobody will work with, they still keep him on even though he’s a third or fourth year now. When he gets qualified he will be let go the very same day. But until then he just keeps getting made up jobs.

So I suppose the trial is fair enough for everybody.

i will mostly be working in the commercial end of plumbing but if it i had to do domestic and what you described thats alright as at least in the long run you get a career out of it as a posed to doing minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life

Conservatory

jettamk6 wrote: »

i will mostly be working in the commercial end of plumbing but if it i had to do domestic and what you described thats alright as at least in the long run you get a career out of it as a posed to doing minimum wage jobs for the rest of my life

Good lad. I done it as a young chap and today I spent out in the blistering heat working on the tan while fiddling about with copper pipes. Kind of like being at the beech but with copper instead of sandcastles. Some days are horrible but the more skilled and experienced you get the more you get to paw the horrible work over to the apprentices.
So many jobs will be done by computers by the time you are in your 40s so the more skilled you are by then the better.

jettamk6

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

salmocab

Hellrazer wrote: »

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

If your paying someone less than minimum wage and they are not registered it’s illegal, 3 month and six month even during the recession became the norm but the last company I worked on site with started registering them straight away because of pressure from unions.

Birdsong

The company I work with has a 3 month probation for all employees, including apprentices.

We used to register with solas straight away but found at least 1 we hired would drop out, for a variety of reasons. The 3 month probation works both ways & means those registered really knows what they're signing up for.

The company has no control over when people are called for their various phases, that is Solas. So not trying to get 15 months work for 12 months.

micks

salmocab wrote: »

This trial thing is nonsense its a way of getting to pay you for 15 months as a first year, sure they could let you go after 3 months if you werent working out regardless of trial period or not. You should be registered from within a few days of when you start with FAS. I think this was cracked down on a few years back to cut out this nonsense. Although that said I realise its easy for me to give out when I'm not the one looking to start an apprenticeship and get a start in the trade.

Hellrazer wrote: »

It's actually not a way to get an apprentice to work for 15 months as a first year.Its very very difficult to get rid of an apprentice once you have registered them with Solas and there are strict rules that stop you taking on another one for a set period of time so you need that person to be the right person before registering them.

I give a one or two month trial to all of mine and believe me that trial has saved me months of hardship.
You get lads who think it will be great to be an apprentice but don't actually realise that the first 2 years are spent as a general labourer ,emptying bins,doing the crap work for **** wages when they're friends are out working in a minimum paid job earning more than the apprentice.

A lot leave within the first month to go and work in a similar role and don't think longer term.

I dont disagree with your post but salmocab is correct there was a clamp down by solas to stop this practice - at least one of the bigger electrical contractors were taking apprentices on trial basis and registering them with solas after their 6 month trial. They were paying them 1st yr rate for 18months and were forced to back pay min wage for the trial period when caught. Now they have to register apprentices within a few weeks of start date
While you're correct lots leave because they dont like the job - but while the % may be higher with apprentices its the same as any job - and thats what probationary periods are for

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

Don’t worry about the naval service or the army if they come up decide then based on your recent experience, 60 on travel is a pain out of 250ish but not the end of the world. I’m sure at this stage you have worked out the first 2 years are rough money wise but we all did it.

OMM 0000

> im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do?

You already answered your question. "i would love to do". So you quit your job and take the job you would love to do.

> My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

OK, I'm old, so my advice is based on being old, experienced, and been around the block more than once. You have to think long term. Your decisions in your 20s, in general, determine the rest of your life.

micks

jettamk6 wrote: »

Hi lads thanks for the responses i also have another two questions i would like to get opinions on alright here we go:
First off im waiting to hear back from the naval service and also the army two jobs i would love to do but if i get a call from the the defedence forces a week or two into my new job what should i do? i would love to serve in the naval service or army but not make a career out of it. I have heared you can do an apprentice ship with the defence forces but its pretty limited in what you can pick.
My second question is if you you where in my shoes would you take a job where it costs you around 60 euro a week on travel because thats what ive worked out what my travel costs will be for this new job.

there are lots of opportunities for apprenticeships

If you are going with this "trial" i'd advise you to ask them when they intend registering you with solas (rather than getting their back up asking about tax/cash in hand)
I you have no other opportunities it could be worth taking the risk. They could be a small company that got burned by apprentices letting them down or they could be taking advantage.
dont know about navy - army do take on apprentices
http://www.military.ie/careers/army/apprentices/training/

jettamk6

salmocab wrote: »

Don’t worry about the naval service or the army if they come up decide then based on your recent experience, 60 on travel is a pain out of 250ish but not the end of the world. I’m sure at this stage you have worked out the first 2 years are rough money wise but we all did it.

Thanks but im 23 and its just i feel like i wont get another chance to serve in the defence forces i have a really difficult home situation and the defence forces just look like an opportunity to leave home even if its for a few months at time.

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

Thanks but im 23 and its just i feel like i wont get another chance to serve in the defence forces i have a really difficult home situation and the defence forces just look like an opportunity to leave home even if its for a few months at time.

Sorry might not have made myself clear what I meant was if they do come up then decide at that stage whether your enjoying what your doing enough and see yourself doing it for a longtime or if you think you’d always regret not joining the forces. Don’t worry about leaving the apprenticeship if it’s for something you really want to do.

salmocab

Btw 23 is not old plenty start apprenticeships in their late 20s and some even later. Lots of employers like to take lads who have done other work and appreciate what they are getting.

Conservatory

Why in the name of jaysis would you join the army?
Come on here worried about your rights and being taken advantage of then say you want to leave to join the army?

It’s not like the ads.

jettamk6

you see i lean towards the navy as i love the sea but i would love to also do an apprentice ship while serving in the navy but from what ive seen its mostly mechanical and eletrical that they offer which makes sense.

jettamk6

Conservatory wrote: »

Why in the name of jaysis would you join the army?
Come on here worried about your rights and being taken advantage of then say you want to leave to join the army?

It’s not like the ads.

ha ha i know what the army entails but i also said i would also like to serve in the navy which is what I lean towards more than the army. Also the irish army is pretty safe compared to the us and uk army ours mostly do peace keeping.

jettamk6

salmocab wrote: »

Btw 23 is not old plenty start apprenticeships in their late 20s and some even later. Lots of employers like to take lads who have done other work and appreciate what they are getting.

i completely appreciate anyone who would take me on its just i dont want to waste my time with someone who will just use me and i know that 23 isnt that old but the cut off for the navy is 27 and the army 25 so if i serve my time in a trade i will be to old to join and if i serve in the navy i feel i will be to old for an apprenticeship

Conservatory

jettamk6 wrote: »

ha ha i know what the army entails but i also said i would also like to serve in the navy which is what I lean towards more than the army. Also the irish army is pretty safe compared to the us and uk army ours mostly do peace keeping.

Siege of jadotville was a peacekeeping mission.
Army families are always in the paper about how rough they have it.

salmocab

jettamk6 wrote: »

you see i lean towards the navy as i love the sea but i would love to also do an apprentice ship while serving in the navy but from what ive seen its mostly mechanical and eletrical that they offer which makes sense.

Things you learn there will translate into a lot of industries. Lots of tradesmen move on by the time they are 40ish to other related roles or working for themselves. Working on ships electrically or mechanically would stand to you on another job which by the time you leave the navy you might have been thinking of moving on from plumbing at that stage anyway.