They're Alive!!!

Heckler

This has me terrified. When I heard an ex SEAL died my heart sank thinking if he had difficulties what chance do those boys have.

wexie

goat2 wrote: »

Due to hunger for 10 days they should fit, they look v thin, but have they got the strength and stamina for six hrs hard slog

Kids are unbelievably resilient, if it's being presented in the right way they could be going through all of this thinking it's the best adventure ever.

Blazer

an 11 hour trek for the divers..surely they'll take an hours break at least once they reach them.

acai berry

goat2 wrote: »

Due to hunger for 10 days they should fit, they look v thin, but have they got the strength and stamina for six hrs hard slog

Their lives are at stake, which will probably rocket them into some sort of super consciousness, not totally dependent on the body, which will guide and energise them. They will be thinking of their parents and loved ones, which thought will probably take them into an altered state of consciousness, where they will probably not even be conscious of the length of time involved. This will involve loads of adrenalyne, the flight or flight hormone, of course.

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/inside-the-mind/emotions/fear2.htm

Hopefully!

anewme

wexie wrote: »

Kids are unbelievably resilient, if it's being presented in the right way they could be going through all of this thinking it's the best adventure ever.

The Coach was brought up in a Buddhist Monastery after his parents died when he was very young.

When found initially, he was guiding the group meditating to conserve energy.

All are believed to be in a very strong place mentally.

Godspeed.

dr.fuzzenstein

Amirani wrote: »

Weird attitude. The only reason that the kids have any chance of survival at this stage is because of experts - either cave diving experts, medical divers or engineers who've been reducing the water levels.

Seems to be a common trend these days to bash "experts", usually just a show of ignorance. Some of the best people in their field are involved in this, and the actions they've taken and will take have maximised the chances of success. Your "just bring them out" idea doesn't do that.

And yet it is happening exactly as I predicted. Experts are people who know a lot about their filed. They're not some superhumen God-like creatures that somehow have wisdom far beyond our comprehension. They have beains, but they're only humen. As we say here "they're only cooking with water".
It's not sacrilege to question experts, one just needs a bit of grey matter. To me the weird attitude is "they're experts, I am only a human, how dare I question their wisdom"
Because it always has been the only possibility right from the start.

Thailand's government has released details about the rescue plan.

"The government has distributed a GFX about how the boys will dive out from Tham Luang cave:

equipment - air tanks, full face masks
two divers accompanying one child
they dive together, guided by the rope placed by the rescuers
when facing a very narrow path, they will release the tank from the back and slowly roll the tank and guide the kid through the channel
from Chamber 3 to the cave's mouth they will walk
The government says the advantages are that this could be done fast and without using much resources.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I'm sometimes wondering why not bring them out with scuba gear and guides.
I mean one at a time. All he has to do is follow a diver and have another one behind. Maybe with masks that allow communication to talk the kid through it.
It's almost like they want to be absolutely 100% sure nothing happens while rescuing them and letting them drown in the process.
I'd rather die trying than die waiting for some expert to come up with a hundred "clever" ways of rescuing me while the water rises.
If people can routinely dive in and out (yes, even if one guy sadly didn't make it), they can bring the kids out.
It's like they are ignoring the glaringly obvious and wasting time coming up with nothing much.
It's killing me to follow this!

Man I'm tired of being right!
I said this from the VERY beginning and I was being shouted down. Because it was glaringly obvious to even an idiot like me that this was the only option and everythig else was ballswirling.

edit:
I really, really, really hope they all make it out in good health!

Heckler

This is gonna put the miracle on the Hudson in the ha'penny place if they pull this off. I'm sure theres experts in all sorts working on this that nobody knows about.

Everything crossed.

Discodog

Heckler wrote: »

This is gonna put the miracle on the Hudson in the ha'penny place if they pull this off. I'm sure theres experts in all sorts working on this that nobody knows about.

Everything crossed.

Sky are saying that a British team are leading the operation - probably the same guys that found them.

dr.fuzzenstein

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And yet it is happening exactly as I predicted.
Because it always has been the only possibility right from the start.

You painted it as the glaringly obvious solution from the start when it's being done now as a last resort. Everyone knew it was possible but so risky it was worth trying other things.

It's like they are ignoring the glaringly obvious and wasting time coming up with nothing much.

That "nothing much" resulted in an awful lot of water being removed from the cave. The #1 plan was them walking out.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Man I'm tired of being right!

You're making an absolute show of yourself here. So incredibly disingenuous.

Discodog

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And yet it is happening exactly as I predicted.
Because it always has been the only possibility right from the start.







Man I'm tired of being right!
I said this from the VERY beginning and I was being shouted down. Because it was glaringly obvious to even an idiot like me that this was the only option and everythig else was ballswirling.

edit:
I really, really, really hope they all make it out in good health!

Nobody likes a smarty pants :pac:

They did the right thing & considered all the options. This was one of the worse but was forced on them by the increasing rain. They had to go whilst the flood level is at it's lowest.

Heckler

Discodog wrote: »

Sky are saying that a British team are leading the operation - probably the same guys that found them.

I hope so. Brit experts in their field tend to be calm. No histronics, no bull****.

I'm not a religious man but I offered a small prayer that this goes well.

Dohnjoe

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I said this from the VERY beginning and I was being shouted down. Because it was glaringly obvious to even an idiot like me that this was the only option and everythig else was ballswirling.

There were many options. The above is the most risky/dangerous option.

As some have suggested it's not "slap a mask" on a child and off they go. This isn't diving in Majorca. This is among the most difficult diving possible - an experienced cave diver has already died, and these guys are diving with other experienced cave divers. It's a 6 hour journey in the dark for weak children who've not only never dived before, but who also can't swim. Most cave diving deaths occur from panic - and again that is among experienced divers. It cannot be stressed how risky this is.

The Thai gov issued requests for child-sized face masks, so obviously they were considering this, but only if safer options were exhausted. Weather has forced this option.

Blazer

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And yet it is happening exactly as I predicted. Experts are people who know a lot about their filed. They're not some superhumen God-like creatures that somehow have wisdom far beyond our comprehension. They have beains, but they're only humen. As we say here "they're only cooking with water".
It's not sacrilege to question experts, one just needs a bit of grey matter. To me the weird attitude is "they're experts, I am only a human, how dare I question their wisdom"
Because it always has been the only possibility right from the start.


Man I'm tired of being right!
I said this from the VERY beginning and I was being shouted down. Because it was glaringly obvious to even an idiot like me that this was the only option and everythig else was ballswirling.

edit:
I really, really, really hope they all make it out in good health!

Its easy to say that from behind your keyboard.
Try saying that in front of other experts where real lives are depending on you.
You can bet your ass that at least one of them was saying that anyway but they have to explore all options.



And for this comment you made? It shows a complete lack of understanding how hard and difficult the journey actually is.

'm sometimes wondering why not bring them out with scuba gear and guides.
I mean one at a time. All he has to do is follow a diver and have another one behind. Maybe with masks that allow communication to talk the kid through it.

ChikiChiki

Heckler wrote: »

This is gonna put the miracle on the Hudson in the ha'penny place if they pull this off. I'm sure theres experts in all sorts working on this that nobody knows about.

Everything crossed.

I hear there is some Fuzzenstein lad from Ireland leading the operation. Not a word about it over here.

A hero's welcome and free Guinness for life awaits upon return.

Discodog

Heckler wrote: »

I hope so. Brit experts in their field tend to be calm. No histronics, no bull****.

I'm not a religious man but I offered a small prayer that this goes well.

The key thing is they are experienced cave rescuers not military divers

Malayalam

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There were many options. The above is the most risky/dangerous option.

As some have suggested it's not "slap a mask" on a child and off they go. This isn't diving in Majorca. This is among the most difficult diving possible - an experienced cave diver has already died, and these guys are diving with other experienced cave divers. It's a 6 hour journey in the dark for weak children who've not only never dived before, but who also can't swim. Most cave diving deaths occur from panic - and again that is among experienced divers. It cannot be stressed how risky this is.

The Thai gov issued requests for child-sized face masks, so obviously they were considering this, but only if safer options were exhausted. Weather has forced this option.

Jesus, it's terrifying. I am glued to this.

Thoughts and prayers with the brave rescuers.

Heckler

Dohnjoe wrote: »

There were many options. The above is the most risky/dangerous option.

As some have suggested it's not "slap a mask" on a child and off they go. This isn't diving in Majorca. This is among the most difficult diving possible - an experienced cave diver has already died, and these guys are diving with other experienced cave divers. It's a 6 hour journey in the dark for weak children who've not only never dived before, but who also can't swim. Most cave diving deaths occur from panic - and again that is among experienced divers. It cannot be stressed how risky this is.

The Thai gov issued requests for child-sized face masks, so obviously they were considering this, but only if safer options were exhausted. Weather has forced this option.

You are right that it can't be stressed how risky it is. This is the length of time up and down from Cork to Dublin on a train. In nearly zero visibility with never mind kids who have never dived but with kids who can't swim.

Tired, scared, malnorished. For all the bashing the coach is getting if these kids make it a lot of that I think will be because of his ability to keep those kids in a positive mental state.

Blazer

ChikiChiki wrote: »

I hear there is some Fuzzenstein lad from Ireland leading the operation. Not a word about it over here.

A hero's welcome and free Guinness for life awaits upon return.

sure its a piece of cake. Slap an old mask on the child and pull him out by rope...

Amirani

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And yet it is happening exactly as I predicted. Experts are people who know a lot about their filed. They're not some superhumen God-like creatures that somehow have wisdom far beyond our comprehension. They have beains, but they're only humen. As we say here "they're only cooking with water".
It's not sacrilege to question experts, one just needs a bit of grey matter. To me the weird attitude is "they're experts, I am only a human, how dare I question their wisdom"
Because it always has been the only possibility right from the start.







Man I'm tired of being right!
I said this from the VERY beginning and I was being shouted down. Because it was glaringly obvious to even an idiot like me that this was the only option and everythig else was ballswirling.

edit:
I really, really, really hope they all make it out in good health!

They haven't just done exactly what you said, they've done a huge amount more. They've continuously been pumping water out, they've let water levels reach their lowest predicted levels. In addition, you've also had divers in laying oxygen tanks along the route and making it all as navigable as possible. You've had medics in doing assessments of the kids and prepping them for what they're doing.

You said they should've just got in an taken them out. I disagree, I think the approach they took, with all the prep work from a large number of subject specialists, was a far better approach.

Stheno

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/44755093

unconfirmed reports from Thai media that the first two boys are out

CeilingFly

First 2 boys are out safely it seems.

acai berry

CeilingFly wrote: »

First 2 boys are out safely it seems.

Thank the Lord and Everybody Involved. If this is true, shows the plan can work.

Blazer

Very hard to believe unless they went in earlier than they announced. Nothing's been confirmed yet.
Original timeline was 3am our time entry with a 6 hour journey into the cave and a 5 hour trip back which is 11 hours.
There's no way divers got to the caves, grabbed a kid and got him back out already. Its not physically possible and incredibly dangerous.

wexie

Blazer wrote: »

Very hard to believe unless they went in earlier than they announced. Nothing's been confirmed yet.
Original timeline was 3am our time entry with a 6 hour journey into the cave and a 5 hour trip back which is 11 hours.
There's no way divers got to the caves, grabbed a kid and got him back out already. Its not physically possible and incredibly dangerous.

No but they probably had people and gear inside the cave already when they started so you could discount the first half of the journey?

At least I haven't seen mentioned anywhere they started from outside?

clfy39tzve8njq

No mention on CNN of any out yet.

anewme

The will of the world is behind them all.

From day 1 when I first saw on the Thai news that 13 pairs of shoes and bikes were found outside the cave till now, it's been handled with tact, diplomacy and a quiet determination from the Thai Authorities with massive encouragement and support from other nations. The Thai people are warm, open and in every restaurant, every shop the conversation and concern would be "any news about the children"

I've no doubt that the bravest and most qualified people are in the caves. If they can't do it, no one can. It's a massive operation and meticulous planning has brought it this point.

They are all very brave people.

All we can do now is wait.

Lackey

Blazer wrote: »

Very hard to believe unless they went in earlier than they announced. Nothing's been confirmed yet.
Original timeline was 3am our time entry with a 6 hour journey into the cave and a 5 hour trip back which is 11 hours.
There's no way divers got to the caves, grabbed a kid and got him back out already. Its not physically possible and incredibly dangerous.

From what I read they had divers stationed at various points along the route, then began the mission, to handover and support, so I'm hopeful its true.

Blazer

wexie wrote: »

No but they probably had people and gear inside the cave already when they started so you could discount the first half of the journey?

At least I haven't seen mentioned anywhere they started from outside?

This is what the Thai official announced this morning just before they started. I expect we won't see the first people out till at least 3pm our time.

The head of the Joint Command Centre, Narongsak Osottanakorn, has just released details about the progress of the rescue operation.
He said the operation began at 10 local time (03:00 GMT), when 13 international divers entered the cave.
He said 10 of them headed for Chamber 9 (where the boys are) and Chamber 6 (near the junction) as planned. Another three cave divers joined the operation at 14:00 local time.
There are a number of additional rescue personnel - including divers from Thailand, the US, Australia, China and Europe - stationed from Chamber 3 to the entrance.
This includes a rope system to assist over difficult terrain in Chambers 2 and 3.

Mollyb60

Apparently some boys (2/3) have reached Chamber 3, so it'll take them another hour to get the rest of the way out.

wexie

Blazer wrote: »

This is what the Thai official announced this morning just before they started. I expect we won't see the first people out till at least 3pm our time.

The head of the Joint Command Centre, Narongsak Osottanakorn, has just released details about the progress of the rescue operation.
He said the operation began at 10 local time (03:00 GMT), when 13 international divers entered the cave.
He said 10 of them headed for Chamber 9 (where the boys are) and Chamber 6 (near the junction) as planned. Another three cave divers joined the operation at 14:00 local time.
There are a number of additional rescue personnel - including divers from Thailand, the US, Australia, China and Europe - stationed from Chamber 3 to the entrance.
This includes a rope system to assist over difficult terrain in Chambers 2 and 3.

Then they would indeed have gone extremely fast and like you said that would be pretty dangerous. Cave diving and hurrying aren't things that go hand in hand.

Let's wait to see if there's any confirmation forthcoming.

Witchie

According to the local news station here in Malaysia, 3 boys have been rescued. They are crediting a Thai tv station.

Hopefully this is true.

Sam Quentin

What's really gonna help in this rescue is the age of the boys, I think older people would have a lot more fear and would be totally aware of the seriousness of the situation, the young lads will listen and do exactly what is asked of them and wont pause which could be the difference between life and death....

Mollyb60

Both BBC and Guardian are mentioning the 'unconfirmed reports' now that 2 are out or are at least past the diving stage.

Rumours flying about some boys already taken out of #thamlaungcave lots of conflicting info. But if the official timescale is correct - that divers only started out for the boys’ cave at 10am - it is too soon to expect any getting out yet.

Let's temper our excitement.

Lackey

Samantha Black Bone wrote: »

No mention on CNN of any out yet.

Sky news carrying the story saying they are in 'an OK condition'

It's likely the case that they're past the diving part and now have to walk the rest. Hoping.

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

It's likely the case that they're past the diving part and now have to walk the rest. Hoping.

Well that would be as good as out I'd imagine.

Witchie

Deleted User wrote: »

Rumours flying about some boys already taken out of #thamlaungcave lots of conflicting info. But if the official timescale is correct - that divers only started out for the boys’ cave at 10am - it is too soon to expect any getting out yet.

Let's temper our excitement.

It is also possible that they built in extra time to the timeline to manage expectations. As well they might mean that they are just in the final chamber where they can walk out and are still an hour away from actually coming out.

Thankfully it will be dark when they get out so they won't have too much glare on their poor eyes.

wexie

Have to say I find it quite uplifting to see that with the current state of the world, immigration debates, wars, political polarization and all that nonsense, large parts of humanity are all focused on 13 kids (let's face it the coach is a kid still) all being brought safely out of a cave.

Roger Hassenforder

Two out!

Blazer

Official confirmation 2 are out. Great news

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/44755093?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5b41fd29f0f2e1066d52517c%26%27Two%20kids%20are%20out%27%20-%20Thai%20official%26&ns_fee=0#post_5b41fd29f0f2e1066d52517c

Lackey

'Two kids are out' - Thai official
More from the local Thai official quoted by Reuters in the previous post.
Tossathep Boonthong, chief of Chiang Rai's health department and part of the rescue team, says: "Two kids are out. They are currently at the field hospital near the cave.
"We are giving them a physical examination. They have not been moved to Chiang Rai Hospital yet'

Paddy Cow

Fantastic news. Lets hope it goes well for the rest

Lackey

Reports just out …..3rd and 4th boy out!!

obi604

Lackey wrote: »

3rd and 4th boy out!!

Fcuk me. This is unreal. Fair fooks to them all.
Just hope they get them all out and they can be mentally stable.

murpho999

Lackey wrote: »

Reports just out …..3rd and 4th boy out!!

I only see reports of 3rd boy only being nearly out.

Stheno

Lackey wrote: »

Reports just out …..3rd and 4th boy out!!

thats all of the first group

SeaFields

Lackey wrote: »

Reports just out …..3rd and 4th boy out!!

Not yet I think but past the most dangerous part I.e. the part that requires diving equipment. Great news

Seoda1

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Two out!

Great news!!