They're Alive!!!

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

My intuition is that being in a flooded cave 100m down through it would not have the same pressure as being 100m down in the sea. I feel like the cave is holding the water all the way up.

Can anyone confirm?

Do you mean 100 meter rock and then water? In that case the rock wouldn't add anything to the pressure

But if you mean 100 meters under water and then 100 meters of rock the rock wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

lemd

Deleted User wrote: »

wexie wrote: »

Of course it does?! perhaps not in this cave (as it doesn't seem particularly deep) but physics and body chemistry don't change just because there is water as well as rock above you?



http://dynamic.hs.fi/2014/deep/

My intuition is that being in a flooded cave 100m down through it would not have the same pressure as being 100m down in the sea. I feel like the cave is holding the water all the way up.

Can anyone confirm?

Regarding hydrostatic pressure 100m is 100m, the vertical depth is all that matters not the route or other factors.

wexie

wexie wrote: »

Do you mean 100 meter rock and then water? In that case the rock wouldn't add anything to the pressure

But if you mean 100 meters under water and then 100 meters of rock the rock wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

Left: cave
Right: ocean

I feel like while there would be increased pressure in the cave, it wouldn't be as much as in the ocean. So the ocean would have worse bends at the same depth.


I'm not arguing a point here. I'm interested in knowing.

_Dara_

Will I Am Not wrote: »

So no organisation should ever do anything nice for anybody in case they look like they are only in it for themselves?

They can do as they wish and people can look on it cynically if they wish. No skin off anyone’s nose. The end.

kerry cow

Such a good result .i am surprised that it went so well .
I get so emotional thinking of the first day there trapped in the dark and then just keep waiting not knowing if someone will come and then to see a diver emerge from the water , the whole thing ,we will never know their ture suffering .
May they all go home safely .

lemd

lemd wrote: »

Regarding hydrostatic pressure 100m is 100m, the vertical depth is all that matters not the route or other factors.

Is the guy in the middle closer to the guy on the left or the guy on the right in terms of pressure, or is he actually the exact same as the guy on the right?


Edit: Sorry for going on about this.. I asked my brother and he gave the water tower example. I countered with the fact that surely even in a hypothetical closed system, a house 1000 miles away wouldn't have the same tap pressure as a house next to the tower? There must be some effect of all that piping taking the weight of the water?

And to take it to the extreme, a straw 100metres tall feels like it couldn't possibly add as much pressure as the open ocean 100metres above you.

Discodog

They will of planned meticulously. The only thing that might change the plan is heavy rain that overcomes the pumps & they will of made a plan for that. I suspect that the next 4 or 8 won't take as long per person. The team will have a routine but they won't risk cutting any corners.

The boys are lucky that one of the best teams in the World didn't give up searching & they won't give up getting them out. These guys never panic because it usually kills you.

Will I Am Not

_Dara_ wrote: »

They can do as they wish and people can look on it cynically if they wish. No skin off anyone’s nose. The end.

They can look at it cynically if they want. I just don’t get why. You were wrong in your first accusation and then just levelled the same accusation at another group. Each to their own I suppose...

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

.........


Edit: Sorry for going on about this.. I asked my brother and he gave the water tower example. I countered with the fact that surely even in a hypothetical closed system, a house 1000 miles away wouldn't have the same tap pressure as a house next to the tower? There must be some effect of all that piping taking the weight of the water?.......

If both houses were at the same height and you stuck a pressure gauge on the pipe in both, they'd read the same ( ideal etc etc )

The pressure in the 1000 mile one may not be up to much if you try having a shower though

Discodog

gctest50 wrote: »

If both houses were at the same height and you stuck a pressure gauge on the pipe in both, they'd read the same ( ideal etc etc )

The pressure in the 1000 mile one may not be up to much if you try having a shower though

One of the problems with the water pumping is the pipe friction over such long distances. They wanted to move the pumps inside the cave, to reduce this but couldn't.

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Is the guy in the middle closer to the guy on the left or the guy on the right in terms of pressure, or is he actually the exact same as the guy on the right?


.

( if you cut the top bit off the straw to make it the same as the tank on the right )


Guy in the middle is just as squished as guy on the right

depends on :

hpg ....... h is height, g is force of gravity and p is density of the stuff

( p isn't small P , it's supposed to be ro , can't type it)


You'd be a lot more squished if you went diving in mercury

or sewage

_Dara_

Will I Am Not wrote: »

They can look at it cynically if they want. I just don’t get why. You were wrong in your first accusation and then just levelled the same accusation at another group. Each to their own I suppose...

I was indeed wrong. Happens.

You don’t have get it. People can do things, people can be cynical of those things and others can not get that cynicism. It’s like we’re all different or something. What a world.

Will I Am Not

_Dara_ wrote: »

I was indeed wrong. Happens.

You don’t have get it. People can do things, people can be cynical of those things and others can not get that cynicism. It’s like we’re all different or something. What a world.

Fair enough. Hopefully this all ends well and they are all in Russia for the final
Enjoy what’s left of the weekend.

2 Scoops

Might have been already mentioned... Did anyone see the video of the man trapped in a pocket of air in a sunken boat? He was down there for days in pure darkness after all his ship mates had drown, one of the craziest things I've ever seen. How he didn't lose his mind is beyond me.

_Dara_

I hope they all get out. I’m so nervous for those left overnight.

Roger_007

_Dara_ wrote: »

I hope they all get out. I’m so nervous for those left overnight.

It will get very nervy when it gets down to the last two or three. Hopefully they will have someone in there to keep them company.

Blazer

Roger_007 wrote: »

It will get very nervy when it gets down to the last two or three. Hopefully they will have someone in there to keep them company.

There's a few medics that stayed with them since they were found. They're still in there. It was the Aussie doctor that determined that the weakest lads were to go out first.

Stigura

kerry cow wrote: »

I get so emotional thinking of the first day there trapped in the dark and then just keep waiting not knowing if someone will come and then to see a diver emerge from the water ...

Yep. I actually well up at the very thought of that moment! How the diver kept his composure, as he broke the surface and saw all those faces ..... It's just mind blowing!

I'm guessing they'd have had some slight forewarning? Bubbles. Or his light? But, for him, after Hours of creeping about in an endless tunnel, bracing himself for the worst. To pop up and see them?

I'd have lost my schit completely!

Mrcaramelchoc

If they do all come out safe and sound which i hope they will,its such a pity that diver/ navy seal had to die.very sad.

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

( if you cut the top bit off the straw to make it the same as the tank on the right )


Guy in the middle is just as squished as guy on the right

depends on :

hpg ....... h is height, g is force of gravity and p is density of the stuff

( p isn't small P , it's supposed to be ro , can't type it)


You'd be a lot more squished if you went diving in mercury

or sewage

It appears you're right.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/pressure-depth-in-a-cave.164988/page-6

"If you are still not convinced, consider the point 33ft down from the cave system entrance. The pressure there is certainly 2 ATA. If the pressure at C were anything other than 2 ATA there would be a pressure differential and the cave system would become an underwater river. For the system to be in equilibrium, point C MUST be at 2 ATA."


But I'll look at it more tomorrow so I actually get it properly instead of just believing.

Stheno

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

If they do all come out safe and sound which i hope they will,its such a pity that diver/ navy seal had to die.very sad.

maybe his death highlighted an issue which when addressed led to to so far successful rescue.

the man died doing heroic work i don't think he will be forgotten

Roger_007

Mrcaramelchoc wrote: »

If they do all come out safe and sound which i hope they will,its such a pity that diver/ navy seal had to die.very sad.

Sometimes people take risks but they are not fully aware of what can go wrong. It's the fact that those guys are so fully aware of the risk that makes them so brave.
Personally I know that I could never summon up the courage to do what they are doing.
I salute them.

wexie

Stheno wrote: »

maybe his death highlighted an issue which when addressed led to to so far successful rescue.

the man died doing heroic work i don't think he will be forgotten

He won't, I read somewhere that the Thai king will be sponsoring the funeral.

Paddy Cow

2 Scoops wrote: »

Might have been already mentioned... Did anyone see the video of the man trapped in a pocket of air in a sunken boat? He was down there for days in pure darkness after all his ship mates had drown, one of the craziest things I've ever seen. How he didn't lose his mind is beyond me.

Since his rescue he won't go back onto the water. He won't even dip his toes in it at the beach. Can hardly blame the man though!

wexie

Deleted User wrote: »

[
It appears you're right.

But I'll look at it more tomorrow so I actually get it properly instead of just believing.

The confusion around this is yet another reason why cave diving is so dangerous and considered highly technical (don't try this at home kids)

When you're in the sea its pretty straightforward to figure out how deep you are and therefore what pressure you're subjected to. In a cave system not so much.

(Although from any of the diagrams I've seen it's not so much of an issue in this case)

dr.fuzzenstein

2 Scoops wrote: »

Might have been already mentioned... Did anyone see the video of the man trapped in a pocket of air in a sunken boat? He was down there for days in pure darkness after all his ship mates had drown, one of the craziest things I've ever seen. How he didn't lose his mind is beyond me.

Seen that, I'm sure that diving suit had to go to the dry cleaners afterwards.
Imagine diving on a wreck and some hand grabs you.
And I have often imagined, what does it feel like being literally buried alive with no hope of rescue. Hope he stayed sane.

_Dara_

Sunrise in three hours or so. Does this rescue depend on sunlight?

Conservatory

_Dara_ wrote: »

Sunrise in three hours or so. Does this rescue depend on sunlight?

I doubt it. But the divers would need a kip. Oxygen also seems to be in short supply so they may be waiting on a delivery

SirChenjin

I am in awe of those divers and all of those involved in the rescue effort. I can't even put into words how much I admire the courage and bravery of all, including the youngsters in the cave.

Sad of course, that one life has been lost - hoping against hope that all others emerge safely.

iamwhoiam

SirChenjin wrote: »

I am in awe of those divers and all of those involved in the rescue effort. I can't even put into words how much I admire the courage and bravery of all, including the youngsters in the cave.

Sad of course, that one life has been lost - hoping against hope that all others emerge safely.

And the families who are staying calm and dignified . Hope now tomorrow brings thier kids safely back

vicwatson

How did they get that far without torches? Or did they have them and lost them?

Noveight

Excellent news to hear of the progress being made, had considered the fact that this story might not have a happy ending.

Not clear of danger yet of course, but promising signs.

Conservatory

vicwatson wrote: »

How did they get that far without torches? Or did they have them and lost them?

They had torches. They also had good BMI scores. It struck me as soon as I seen the video of them. I said them lads will survive they all have robust immune systems.

Sam Quentin

This is what they're up against.

https://1v1d1e1lmiki1lgcvx32p49h8fe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/1531096732-thai-cave-.jpg

#NOT ALL HEROES WEAR CAPES, SOME WEAR SCUBA GEAR

Wanderer78

Sam Quentin wrote:

This is what they're up against.

Jesus, some water got in there after they walked in

Minderbinder

They haven’t even told the parents which boys have been evacuated and which are still inside. Bizarre place altogether.

Wanderer78

Minderbinder wrote:

They haven’t even told the parents which boys have been evacuated and which are still inside. Bizarre place altogether.

Now that is odd

fima

Minderbinder wrote: »

They haven’t even told the parents which boys have been evacuated and which are still inside. Bizarre place altogether.

I just came on to say this, why are they so secretive ? Quote from the journal, ‘do not ask those kind of questions they are not wise questions to ask’

SuperS54

It's quite possible the parents are fully aware and are with their kids but the media have not been told in order to avoid the families being mobbed.

Minderbinder

SuperS54 wrote: »

It's quite possible the parents are fully aware and are with their kids but the media have not been told in order to avoid the families being mobbed.

I don’t think that’s the case as one of the mothers is quoted as saying she doesn’t know. Unless they’ve separated all the parents too?

Blazer

Conservatory wrote: »

They had torches. They also had good BMI scores. It struck me as soon as I seen the video of them. I said them lads will survive they all have robust immune systems.

Ehh? People can have underlying defects while still having a good BMI. And if they hadn’t been found the higher your BMI obviously the longer you can hold on.
Christ the people patting themselves on the back here is like watching Donald Trump tweeting out.


Also so far only 4 are out. I had thought it was 6 but obviously the media jumped the gun.
Fingers crossed the rain holds off today and allows more of them to get out.

gctest50

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It appears you're right.

https://www.scubaboard.com/community/threads/pressure-depth-in-a-cave.164988/page-6

"If you are still not convinced, consider the point 33ft down from the cave system entrance. The pressure there is certainly 2 ATA. If the pressure at C were anything other than 2 ATA there would be a pressure differential and the cave system would become an underwater river. For the system to be in equilibrium, point C MUST be at 2 ATA."


But I'll look at it more tomorrow so I actually get it properly instead of just believing.

They must have had great fun way back until they figured it out

Pascal made some vases of different shapes and joined them together

Pascal's Vases :

.......

This post has been deleted.

anewme

Conservatory wrote: »

They had torches. They also had good BMI scores. It struck me as soon as I seen the video of them. I said them lads will survive they all have robust immune systems.

Robust

BMI


Just can't deal.:pac::pac::pac::pac::pac::pac:

wakka12

Just a heart breaking story! Imagine seeing your child coming back out of the cave..after waiting two weeks, if it seems surreal to some randomers on the internet thousands of miles away I can't imagine


So lucky the boys left their shoes outside the cave..what would have happened if they had worn them inside..theyd just be some strange disappearance mystery story,nobody would have the slightest clue what happened

Yester

The press briefing has now finished. Here’s what we learned:

• The rescue operation to extract more boys began on Monday at 11am (5am BST). The same divers who went in on Sunday have been called upon again, but there are no reports on their progress.

• Officials said that conditions were as good as they were on Sunday, when the first four boys were extracted. They said that the rain yesterday did not affect water levels inside the cave.

• Officials suggested that the stronger boys would be rescued first and that they could emerge between 7.30pm and 8.30pm local time.

• Authorities complained about some of yesterday’s media coverage, saying a drone was flown above the operation. They also claimed media outlets listened to police radio reports.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2018/jul/09/thai-cave-rescue-resumes-to-free-eight-boys-and-coach-still-trapped-latest-news

• Consideration is also being made about whether parents should be allowed to see the boys who have already been rescued, potentially through a glass door. There must be no physical contact with the boys until the results of blood tests come back. The four boys in hospital are asking to eat pad kra pao (Thai basil chicken).

anewme

Yester wrote: »

The press briefing has now finished. Here’s what we learned:

• Authorities complained about some of yesterday’s media coverage, saying a drone was flown above the operation. They also claimed media outlets listened to police radio reports.

Should be severely fined.

Tilikum17

wakka12 wrote: »

Just a heart breaking story! Imagine seeing your child coming back out of the cave..after waiting two weeks, if it seems surreal to some randomers on the internet thousands of miles away I can't imagine


So lucky the boys left their shoes outside the cave..what would have happened if they had worn them inside..theyd just be some strange disappearance mystery story,nobody would have the slightest clue what happened

They had bikes too.

wexie

Yester wrote: »

• Consideration is also being made about whether parents should be allowed to see the boys who have already been rescued, potentially through a glass door. There must be no physical contact with the boys until the results of blood tests come back. The four boys in hospital are asking to eat pad kra pao (Thai basil chicken).

Bloodtests? Are they worried they may have picked up something contagious?

I guess it's a good sign if they're hungry

murpho999

wexie wrote: »

Bloodtests? Are they worried they may have picked up something contagious?

I guess it's a good sign if they're hungry

Bloodtest would be a standard medical test.

They could be testing how their own resistance levels are as they may have lowered in the cave due to nutrition deficiencies.