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Serious docking of pay for error

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    #32
    davo10
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,926 ✭✭✭davo10


    Mongfinder General wrote: »
    This part has to be made up. That’s €20 grand a year. These guys need to be given a week’s notice and then told to **** off followed up with a claim for bullying and harassment. Total 2 bit ****

    Probably net, while I don't agree with the deduction, the op was probably being overpaid if he/she makes repeated mistakes.


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    #33
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,519 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    davo10 wrote: »
    Probably net, while I don't agree with the deduction, the op was probably being overpaid if he/she makes repeated mistakes.

    Errors made were minor - ooh why is that still on the website 2 hours after it finished
    You're making out the OP is fecking up all the time.

    @OP ever thought of going it alone? Years of experience could be worth a punt.


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    #34
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users Posts: 28,196 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Don't leave until you've secured another job, it's likely your boss knows your next employer. Do not speak any way negative about a previous employer in an interview.

    Are you on any kind of bonus structure or is it just a basic wage and he's taking that, if the latter he's having a laugh, throw it up to him but be cute about it and don't blame someone or anything else it's your fault. If your struggling with workload ask him for help, you'd be surprised how some tweaks to your system can free you up.


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    #35
    Ronin247
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Ronin247


    A notice letter along these lines would be nice for him to receive.... I am sure there are improvements others can add...

    Dear Billy Big boss

    I hereby tender 2 weeks notice as I feel I am being forced to quit over what I considered a pressure induced error.During my notice period I will be working strictly to my contracted hours of 08:30 to 17:00 and will be taking my statutorily entitled break in full.

    Your threat to dock my wages for this error is illegal, as are the many other threats and bullying behavior I have endured and kept a record of over the last 18 months. The stress of this has been making me physically ill for a number of months now.

    I feel it is only fair to inform you that as a full time employee my rights are protected under Irish statute and I will be seeking legal advice with a view to taking a constructive dismissal case against you.

    beingdockedforerror


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    #36
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,519 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    Ronin247 wrote: »
    A notice letter along these lines would be nice for him to receive.... I am sure there are improvements others can add...

    Dear Billy Big boss

    I hereby tender 2 weeks notice as I feel I am being forced to quit over what I considered a pressure induced error.During my notice period I will be working strictly to my contracted hours of 08:30 to 17:00 and will be taking my statutorily entitled break in full.

    Your threat to dock my wages for this error is illegal, as are the many other threats and bullying behavior I have endured and kept a record of over the last 18 months. The stress of this has been making me physically ill for a number of months now.

    I feel it is only fair to inform you that as a full time employee my rights are protected under Irish statute and I will be seeking legal advice with a view to taking a constructive dismissal case against you.

    beingdockedforerror

    Do not use that - threatening leaving letter is never a good idea no matter how bad the circumstances. Plus as an 18 month employee you don't have as many rights as you think you do.
    And as a monthly paid employee there is probably a months notice needed


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    #37
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    _Brian wrote: »
    ....

    If I were you I’d reply to the email accepting the verbal warning. But as others have suggested point out that docking of wages is not covered in your contract and so not acceptable, and if it happens you will take legal advice on the issue.

    ....

    As an employee, do you have to 'accept' or even acknowledge the warning? I'm not saying you should dispute it, but wouldn't you want to reserve the option to say that you disagreed with the warning in the future?

    As for the OP's post, it sounds to me like the threat of notice made the boss back down on the unreasonable pay-deduction-threat, or else the possibility of a constructive dismissal complaint is what changed his mind.


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    #38
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,339 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    fritzelly wrote:
    Do not use that - threatening leaving letter is never a good idea no matter how bad the circumstances. Plus as an 18 month employee you don't have as many rights as you think you do. And as a monthly paid employee there is probably a months notice needed

    In the ops case it is otherwise the boss will continue to behave the same.

    If at the end of the month on payday, I found out that my pay was being docked, I'd walk out straight away.


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    #39
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,519 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    As an employee, do you have to 'accept' or even acknowledge the warning? I'm not saying you should dispute it, but wouldn't you want to reserve the option to say that you disagreed with the warning in the future?

    As for the OP's post, it sounds to me like the threat of notice made the boss back down on the unreasonable pay-deduction-threat, or else the possibility of a constructive dismissal complaint is what changed his mind.

    Can appeal it but in what seems a small business probably not gonna get far and even if not signed still on record. Would only come in to play where it went further as in legal proceedings.

    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    In the ops case it is otherwise the boss will continue to behave the same.

    If at the end of the month on payday, I found out that my pay was being docked, I'd walk out straight away.

    Should still try to leave on amicable terms, like saying I can no longer work in this position but thanks for the experience.
    As for taking the money from his wage then that would be more legal implications as in this case the employer would very likely be breaking the law by deducting it.


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    #40
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Can appeal it but in what seems a small business probably not gonna get far and even if not signed still on record. Would only come in to play where it went further as in legal proceedings.




    Should still try to leave on amicable terms, like saying I can no longer work in this position but thanks for the experience.
    As for taking the money from his wage then that would be more legal implications as in this case the employer would very likely be breaking the law by deducting it.

    I'm not suggesting appealing it - I'm saying, why would you email the boss and 'accept the warning'? I'd be more inclined to reserve my position and make no comment either way.


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    #41
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,519 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    I'm not suggesting appealing it - I'm saying, why would you email the boss and 'accept the warning'? I'd be more inclined to reserve my position and make no comment either way.

    Just because you don't accept the warning ("signing" it) doesn't mean it doesn't still stand - if that was the case everyone would just refuse to accept them and claim unfair dismissal because the written warnings were not valid because you didn't sign them
    Such occasions are always in the presence of witnesses (or should be) so you can't claim it never happened.


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    #42
    LionelNashe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,961 ✭✭✭LionelNashe


    fritzelly wrote: »
    Just because you don't accept the warning ("signing" it) doesn't mean it doesn't still stand - if that was the case everyone would just refuse to accept them and claim unfair dismissal because the written warnings were not valid because you didn't sign them
    Such occasions are always in the presence of witnesses (or should be) so you can't claim it never happened.

    I think you're slightly misinterpreting me. I'm not saying that the warning will not stand if you don't accept it; I'm saying, is there any requirement for the employee to 'accept it', (the other posters words)? In my opinion, there isn't. That's like an implied admission on the employee's part that the error justified the warning. Whether the dispute gets legal in the future, or even if it doesn't, I wouldn't be emailing the boss to 'accept the warning'.


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    #43
    fritzelly
    Registered Users Posts: 17,519 ✭✭✭✭fritzelly


    LionelNashe wrote: »
    I think you're slightly misinterpreting me. I'm not saying that the warning will not stand if you don't accept it; I'm saying, is there any requirement for the employee to 'accept it', (the other posters words)? In my opinion, there isn't. That's like an implied admission on the employee's part that the error justified the warning. Whether the dispute gets legal in the future, or even if it doesn't, I wouldn't be emailing the boss to 'accept the warning'.

    Sorry for the mistinterpretation
    With witnesses that you have been given a warning, a signature or lack of means nothing.
    Whether the warning was justified should be well laid out in the companies terms of employment as to when verbal and written warnings are justified and where termination is the final result. But any company terms cannot include every eventuality so even while certain circumstances are an automatic warning it doesn't mean the company cannot issue warnings for other things.


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    #44
    Mongfinder General
    Registered Users Posts: 1,992 ✭✭✭Mongfinder General


    davo10 wrote: »
    Probably net, while I don't agree with the deduction, the op was probably being overpaid if he/she makes repeated mistakes.

    €22 grand a year. You can get that almost anywhere. The guy is being treated like a minimum wage punk. He should fcuk them off. Mug them off by ballsing up a few more times on his last day.


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