Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Cheerful Spring

prinzeugen wrote: »

Why should they release CCTV? They might have info and don't want to spook anyone.

Just like they knew who poisoned Skipral but said nothing in the hope that they would return to Europe and get arrested on an EAW.

I am sure CCTV could emerge of the Russian "tourists" outside Skiprals frontdoor and the usual Putin worshipers would still be looking for "proof".

In that case, maybe the two guys were in the car and they don't want anyone to see that?

The only reason they would not release images of Skipral returning home is to hide something from the public. The British don't want to reveal anything that disproves their version of events.

If they were caught on CTV even in the estate would be enough for me. They have no business walking around in a housing estate. The image we have them is on a main walking road near a shell petrol station.

Cheerful Spring

Sky News is confirming at least one of two people taken ill is a Russian citizen.


https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-restaurant-cordoned-off-by-police-after-pair-taken-ill-11500197

Dohnjoe

prinzeugen wrote: »

Why should they release CCTV? They might have info and don't want to spook anyone.

Just like they knew who poisoned Skipral but said nothing in the hope that they would return to Europe and get arrested on an EAW.

I am sure CCTV could emerge of the Russian "tourists" outside Skiprals frontdoor and the usual Putin worshipers would still be looking for "proof".

This isn't about debate or reason. It's about finding perceived "holes" or "discrepancies" in anything that can attempt to discredit the established version of events in order to promote some kooky unspecified "inside job"

I'll keep repeating it as long as these types of posters keep using it as an approach

It's a game of "whack-a-mole", as soon as something is explained beyond all reason, the conspiracy theorist will just move onto the next and demand people "explain that", and they will keep going until they find something that can't be 100% explained to them. Plus at any point they can play dumb and not accept the explanation. They also have bizarre requirements (access to all the CCTV footage, all the evidence for the case, all the private intelligence - otherwise it's an "inside job")

They will also frequently jump back to issues that have been carefully explained

The "whack-a-mole" technique

The last few pages is that entirely in action. It's all from the playbook of cranks like Alex Jones who use these techniques to just "question" events, i.e. in reality discredit those events to hint at far-fetched conspiracies and "inside jobs"

This is nothing, we haven't even hit full intensity yet, wait till that happens :pac:

Cheerful Spring

A source briefed by the emergency services told the Press Association that medics alerted the police because the symptoms were consistent with Novichok poisoning.

"The ambulance crew at the site took the decision that the symptoms seemed consistent with Novichok poisoning which is why they called their colleagues in the police," the source said.

But the source stressed: "The symptoms of Novhichok poisoning and particular types of narcotic abuse are very similar."

The site is just 300m from the Zizzi outlet where former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia ate before collapsing from Novichok poisoning in March.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-novichok-fears-salisbury-two-13257883.amp

prinzeugen

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Sky News is confirming at least one of two people taken ill is a Russian citizen.


https://news.sky.com/story/salisbury-restaurant-cordoned-off-by-police-after-pair-taken-ill-11500197

I wonder if they just arrived from Moscow for a two day trip to see the 123m tall cathedral as well.

cnocbui

The latest incident is not related.

Police say there is "nothing to suggest that Novichok" was the cause of two people falling ill at a restaurant in Salisbury.

Wiltshire Police declared a major incident after a man in his 40s and a woman in her 30s became ill at Prezzo in High Street on Sunday evening.

Nearby streets were cordoned off "due to recent events" in the city, but restrictions have now been lifted.

Police say they are no longer treating the illness as a major incident.

A Wiltshire Police statement said: "Due to recent events in the city and concerns that the pair had been exposed to an unknown substance, a highly precautionary approach was taken by all emergency services."

The two people affected were taken to Salisbury District Hospital and remain under observation.

Harika

kingc wrote: »

I highly doubt Russia had anything to do with the situation. What would Russia have to gain by poisoning British civilians? Nothing.
Now what would the West have to gain by blaming/framing Russia? They could continue the propaganda campaign painting Russia as the enemy and gain public support for military spending and interference in the Middle East. This benefits the richest people in society as they are the biggest investors in war. The war machine rolls on and the sheep are fooled again

Russia is testing the western reaction to after Brexit. How will US, NATO and EU react to such an act? All that happened was some extradition of ambassadors, while e.g. Austria invited Putin to the wedding of their foreign minister.
For a war, as mentioned before, you won't start a war with a nuclear armed country over the poisoning and death of some citizen.
And @CheerfulSpring for WTC7, it has already been rock solid established that the Chemtrail-chemicals caused it to collapse.

kingc

Harika wrote: »

Russia is testing the western reaction to after Brexit. How will US, NATO and EU react to such an act? All that happened was some extradition of ambassadors, while e.g. Austria invited Putin to the wedding of their foreign minister.
For a war, as mentioned before, you won't start a war with a nuclear armed country over the poisoning and death of some citizen.
And @CheerfulSpring for WTC7, it has already been rock solid established that the Chemtrail-chemicals caused it to collapse.

That sounds nonsensical. I don't believe Russia wants a war judging by their actions at the world stage. USA, Britain, France and co are pushing hard to overthrow governments that they cannot dictate and purposefully creating tension and hostilities with their rivals. It seems that people in Ireland and Britain have really fallen for the propaganda campaign making out Russia as the bad guys yet when we look at the countries track records it is clearly the West who have done and continue to do more harm to world peace

cnocbui

kingc wrote: »

That sounds nonsensical. I don't believe Russia wants a war judging by their actions at the world stage. USA, Britain, France and co are pushing hard to overthrow governments that they cannot dictate which is the reason for such hostile relations today. It seems that people in Ireland and Britain have really fallen for the propaganda campaign making out Russia as the bad guys

Russia's troll army is very fond of calling a reasonably free press 'propaganda'.

Assetbacked

cnocbui wrote: »

Russia's troll army is very fond of calling a reasonably free press 'propaganda'.

“Troll army” - what the hell is a troll army?

ohnonotgmail

kingc wrote: »

That sounds nonsensical. I don't believe Russia wants a war judging by their actions at the world stage. USA, Britain, France and co are pushing hard to overthrow governments that they cannot dictate and purposefully creating tension and hostilities with their rivals. It seems that people in Ireland and Britain have really fallen for the propaganda campaign making out Russia as the bad guys yet when we look at the countries track records it is clearly the West who have done and continue to do more harm to world peace

Da comrade.

kingc

cnocbui wrote: »

Russia's troll army is very fond of calling a reasonably free press 'propaganda'.

If you don't see that our media is extremely biased then you are already brainwashed. Did you know USA bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital killing 42 people in 2015? If you didn't you can be forgiven because Irish media didn't show it. Crazy because you would think that is major news but it doesn't fit the agenda so better not to mention it. It is obvious our media is going to be biased towards USA when our country even allows their military to use our airport

Harika

kingc wrote: »

If you don't see that our media is extremely biased then you are already brainwashed. Did you know USA bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital killing 42 people in 2015? If you didn't you can be forgiven because Irish media didn't show it. Crazy because you would think that is major news but it doesn't fit the agenda so better not to mention it. It is obvious our media is going to be biased towards USA when our country even allows their military to use our airport

You mean
http://www.thejournal.ie/afghanistan-kunduz-attack-2368119-Oct2015/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/msf-calls-for-commission-on-kunduz-hospital-attack-1.2382133
https://www.independent.ie/incoming/doctors-without-borders-forced-to-review-presence-in-afghanistan-after-deadly-us-air-strike-31593434.html
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/08/16/news/doctors-without-borders-hospital-hit-in-yemen-air-strike-653928/
https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1007/732995-msf-kunduz/

Yeah seems to be put under the carpet :rolleyes:

bullpost

kingc wrote: »

If you don't see that our media is extremely biased then you are already brainwashed. Did you know USA bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital killing 42 people in 2015? If you didn't you can be forgiven because Irish media didn't show it. Crazy because you would think that is major news but it doesn't fit the agenda so better not to mention it. It is obvious our media is going to be biased towards USA when our country even allows their military to use our airport

Hmmm - type "kunduz hospital airstrike irish times" into the google machine and you'll see lots of reporting on it.

Elmer Blooker

Harika wrote: »

You mean
http://www.thejournal.ie/afghanistan-kunduz-attack-2368119-Oct2015/
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/middle-east/msf-calls-for-commission-on-kunduz-hospital-attack-1.2382133
https://www.independent.ie/incoming/doctors-without-borders-forced-to-review-presence-in-afghanistan-after-deadly-us-air-strike-31593434.html
http://www.irishnews.com/news/2016/08/16/news/doctors-without-borders-hospital-hit-in-yemen-air-strike-653928/
https://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1007/732995-msf-kunduz/

Yeah seems to be put under the carpet :rolleyes:

The atrocities committed by the US and it's NATO minions will make the headlines for a few hours or maybe a day at most before being quietly dropped so yes, the "collateral damage" by the good guys is swept under the carpet.
Heard much about Yemen lately? I guess famine and a cholera epidemic in the 21st century isn't news worthy.

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The atrocities committed by the US and it's NATO minions will make the headlines for a few hours or maybe a day at most before being quietly dropped so yes, the "collateral damage" by the good guys is swept under the carpet.
Heard much about Yemen lately? I guess famine and a cholera epidemic in the 21st century isn't news worthy.

So we have gone from completely ignored to only making the headlines for a day at most in the space of 3 or 4 posts. you guys really do like shifting the goalposts.

WinnyThePoo

It's gloriously profound:)

Harika

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So we have gone from completely ignored to only making the headlines for a day at most in the space of 3 or 4 posts. you guys really do like shifting the goalposts.

Yeah I was expecting this to happen so put in the news that went over several months but I guess that is not enough as your local reporter didn't come to your door and walk you through the event with pictures and videos.

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

The atrocities committed by the US and it's NATO minions will make the headlines for a few hours or maybe a day at most before being quietly dropped so yes, the "collateral damage" by the good guys is swept under the carpet.
Heard much about Yemen lately? I guess famine and a cholera epidemic in the 21st century isn't news worthy.

and btw those articles about the same incident (well except the fourth one which relates to a different incident) were published over a timespan much greater than a day. Its almost like you're just making it up as you go along.

mcmoustache

Assetbacked wrote: »

“Troll army” - what the hell is a troll army?

The concept has been around for a few years. One such one is the Internet Research Agency which has the confusing acronym, IRA.

The agency has employed fake accounts registered on major social networks,[3] discussion boards, online newspaper sites, and video hosting services to promote the Kremlin's interests in domestic and foreign policy including Ukraine and the Middle East as well as attempting to influence the 2016 United States presidential election. More than 1,000 employees reportedly worked in a single building of the agency in 2015.

Basically, it's a an organisation that pays people to show up in forums saying "whatabout the west", "the west just as bad", "maidan was coup", "why would russia do X", "you don't want war with russia", "antifa are everywhere", "it not russia, it false flag" and other such talking points.

Elmer Blooker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

and btw those articles about the same incident (well except the fourth one which relates to a different incident) were published over a timespan much greater than a day. Its almost like you're just making it up as you go along.

Not at all, I know what I'm talking about.
A group of civilians get hit in an airstrike by US/NATO and the standard mealy mouthed comments soon follow - "deep regret" .... "a full inquiry" ... and that's about it.
No outrage at the UN either as Nikki is nowhere to be seen.

The concept has been around for a few years. One such one is the Internet Research Agency which has the confusing acronym, IRA.

I got this far:

The January 2017 report issued by the United States Intelligence Community

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not at all, I know what I'm talking about.
A group of civilians get hit in an airstrike by US/NATO and the standard mealy mouthed comments soon follow - "deep regret" .... "a full inquiry" ... and that's about it.
No outrage at the UN either as Nikki is nowhere to be seen.

For someone who claim to know what they are one about you do talk some ****e. Why would Nikki be anywhere to be seen? She did not become ambassador to the UN until long after the events in those newspaper reports.

Elmer Blooker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

For someone who claim to know what they are one about you do talk some ****e. Why would Nikki be anywhere to be seen? She did not become ambassador to the UN until long after the events in those newspaper reports.

But but ... Nikki cares about babies!

How do the mods tolerate this stuff?

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

But but ... Nikki cares about babies!

How do the mods tolerate this stuff?

What is to the relevance of nikki haley to events that occurred before she became ambassador to the UN? any chance of an intelligent reponse?

gandalf

Jaysus are back to "it's not fair they did bad stuff but we're not allowed" levels of discussion.

Anyway back to Salisbury, thanks to the two Russian pilgrims and their tainted legacy every case of food poisoning in this area is going to be met with panic. Sightseeing lol!

Joshua J

So we've gone from discussing the issue to attacking the posters who you can't debate. Typical fair really. If Cheerful responded in kind to the insults he's received he'd have been banned long ago. Fair play to the lad for not lowering himself.

mcmoustache

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not at all, I know what I'm talking about.
A group of civilians get hit in an airstrike by US/NATO and the standard mealy mouthed comments soon follow - "deep regret" .... "a full inquiry" ... and that's about it.
No outrage at the UN either as Nikki is nowhere to be seen.

I got this far:

Reading can be a challenge for a lot of people.

Joshua J

mcmoustache wrote: »

The concept has been around for a few years. One such one is the Internet Research Agency which has the confusing acronym, IRA.



Basically, it's a an organisation that pays people to show up in forums saying "whatabout the west", "the west just as bad", "maidan was coup", "why would russia do X", "you don't want war with russia", "antifa are everywhere", "it not russia, it false flag" and other such talking points.

As paranoid as any CT'er.

Elmer Blooker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

What is to the relevance of nikki haley to events that occurred before she became ambassador to the UN?

She was ambassador when this happened but nice deflection, there has numerous atrocities committed since she became UN ambassador such as this one. Note how the US puts the blame on the terrorists for the civilian deaths and not the dropping of a 500lb bomb on a residential area.

A Pentagon investigation released on Thursday found that Isis fighters had planted explosives in the house, causing secondary explosions that caused the house to collapse.
The report said thata US jet dropped a 500lb bomb shortly after 8am, targeting two Isis fighters who had taken up positions on the roof of the the house in the Jadidah neighborhood.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/us-mosul-airstrikes-deadliest-attack-iraq-2003

Reading can be a challenge for a lot of people.

You just believe EVERYTHING you read.

mcmoustache

Joshua J wrote: »

As paranoid as any CT'er.

Are you saying it doesn't exist?

mcmoustache

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

You just believe EVERYTHING you read.

No. Just the stuff claims that stand up to scrutiny.

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

She was ambassador when this happened but nice deflection, there has numerous atrocities committed since she became UN ambassador such as this one. Note how the US puts the blame on the terrorists for the civilian deaths and not the dropping of a 500lb bomb on a residential area.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/may/25/us-mosul-airstrikes-deadliest-attack-iraq-2003

You just believe EVERYTHING you read.

We we were discussing an air strike that occurred before she became ambassador or you did you not bother to even look at the links?

Dohnjoe

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

So we have gone from completely ignored to only making the headlines for a day at most in the space of 3 or 4 posts. you guys really do like shifting the goalposts.

The world view of these types of posters is underscored by a profound trust in autocratic regimes like that of Putin, and unelected dictators like Assad, while maintaining a personal hatred against often the entire history and existence of certain democratic countries. We're not talking about opposing an administration here, we're talking about opposing a entire country's history, a basket of countries (which makes absolutely no sense)

If that wasn't mental enough, these people will distrust free press from e.g. Scandinavia, Netherlands, Germany, France, etc, press that over the decades as regularly savaged the establishment and political parties... yet these people will blindly support state-controlled press from autocratic regimes and tacky conspiratorial sources

That's putting it mildly

It's the equivalent of you hating *spins wheel*.. Peru. And any thread related to South America you will come in spamming it with vindictive distorted nonsense spanning the entire history of Peru

A repeated reminder as to what we are actually dealing with here

So anyway, back to the autocratic regime that put two stiff agents on (English speaking, in a country with where only 5% of the population speak English) state controlled TV claiming that on the very day that the Skripals were poisoned, these two surly looking men had a burning desire to book last minute tickets and see Salisbury Spire

An account so absurd as to make virtually no sense

Joshua J

mcmoustache wrote: »

Are you saying it doesn't exist?

I'm saying that because someone disagrees with you/sky news, doesn't mean they're a paid Russian shill, which is what you and the lads are trying to infer. Let's not play silly beggars here.

mcmoustache

Joshua J wrote: »

I'm saying that because someone disagrees with you/sky news, doesn't mean they're a paid Russian shill, which is what you and the lads are trying to infer. Let's not play silly beggars here.

I haven't accused anyone of that in this thread. Someone asked:

“Troll army” - what the hell is a troll army?

and I answered.

Elmer Blooker

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

We we were discussing an air strike that occurred before she became ambassador or you did you not bother to even look at the links?

I'm not going to ignore the countless airstrikes on civilians AFTER Haley became ambassador to suit you.

ohnonotgmail

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

I'm not going to ignore the countless airstrikes on civilians AFTER Haley became ambassador to suit you.

feel free to discuss them but that is not what we were discussing and your mention of Nikki was both wrong and irrelevant.

Skylinehead

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

But but ... Nikki cares about babies!

How do the mods tolerate this stuff?

How do we tolerate you trying to backseat mod, I'm not sure.

Stop. Attacking posts is not a personal insult.

kooper

kingc wrote: »

That sounds nonsensical. I don't believe Russia wants a war judging by their actions at the world stage. USA, Britain, France and co are pushing hard to overthrow governments that they cannot dictate and purposefully creating tension and hostilities with their rivals. It seems that people in Ireland and Britain have really fallen for the propaganda campaign making out Russia as the bad guys yet when we look at the countries track records it is clearly the West who have done and continue to do more harm to world peace

jaysus, invading Georgia in 2008, invading Ukraine in 2014, using chemical/radioactive substances on foreign grounds, sure, pure saint guys, how could anyone think that they want war, never :D:D

WinnyThePoo

The only source I trust is Off guardian. It's so bat**** it's content must be true.

Billy86

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

The only source I trust is Off guardian. It's so bat**** it's content must be true.

It's not remotely batsh*t. It's highly targetted Kremlin propaganda, which even it's biggest fan on here cannot deny to the point they have to one day pretend to have read and then the next pretended to have not read the evidence of this in order to avoid addressing it.

Billy86

Assetbacked wrote: »

“Troll army” - what the hell is a troll army?

One example is the Intenet Research Agency in St. Petersburg, which along with at least 13 of its employees have already been indicted in the Russia/US election investigation - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agency

cnocbui

kingc wrote: »

If you don't see that our media is extremely biased then you are already brainwashed. Did you know USA bombed a Doctors Without Borders hospital killing 42 people in 2015? If you didn't you can be forgiven because Irish media didn't show it. Crazy because you would think that is major news but it doesn't fit the agenda so better not to mention it. It is obvious our media is going to be biased towards USA when our country even allows their military to use our airport

What do you think I meant by "reasonably" free press? I am aware some press outlets are biased, but they aren't all state controlled and there is a wide varity to choose from.

Yes, I was aware about the hospital bombing clustf... because we do have a reasonably free press, as I said. You will find the story about that on pretty much every major western news site:

BBC

The US military has disciplined more than a dozen service members after an air strike on a Medecins Sans Frontieres (MSF) hospital in Afghanistan killed 42 people last year.

CNBC

The Pentagon, which has said it may have inadvertently struck the hospital during a military operation, said in a statement on Sunday that a preliminary investigation of the episode would be completed in a matter of days. The Afghan government also vowed to investigate the airstrike.

... and so on and so on.

It's not a suppressed secret as you seem to suggest.

The Irish media reported it, what absolute rubbish are you spouting?

cnocbui

gandalf wrote: »

Jaysus are back to "it's not fair they did bad stuff but we're not allowed" levels of discussion.

Anyway back to Salisbury, thanks to the two Russian pilgrims and their tainted legacy every case of food poisoning in this area is going to be met with panic. Sightseeing lol!

We came

We saw

We poisoned

mcmoustache

Bellingcat is reporting more information on suspect Petrov. Another GRU operative, Col. Eduard Shishmakov.

Bellingcat and the Insider have previously investigated and reported on a different GRU officer who also travelled under a cover persona and passport. This was the case of Col. Eduard Shishmakov, a former Russian Military Attaché in Warsaw expelled by Poland in 2014 for espionage. Col. Shishmakov, using an undercover (albeit not very creative) persona and passport in the name of Eduard Shirokov, travelled to Serbia in October 2016 to supervise – as alleged by the Montenegro special prosecutor – a failed coup against the pro-Western government in Podgorica.

Anyway, it turns out that his fake passport number is also in the same sequence as the the other two's.

The numbers were from the same batch, with only 26 intervening passport numbers between “Petrov”’s (654341297), and “Shirokov”’s (654341323) number. “Shirokov”’s passport was issued in August 2016, implying that Petrov’s and Boshirov’s passports were issued by the same special authority earlier that year.

The article also shows that Petrov, or at least his passport, was very well travelled for the average Russian.

Of course, this won't make any sense to some people.

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

Bellingcat is reporting more information on suspect Petrov. Another GRU operative, Col. Eduard Shishmakov.



Anyway, it turns out that his fake passport number is also in the same sequence as the the other two's.



The article also shows that Petrov, or at least his passport, was very well travelled for the average Russian.

Of course, this won't make any sense to some people.

Bellingcat is a fake site. Do you honestly think they can just find out a person a secret agent by just looking up some passport information? How do you know what they showing you is even real there is no paper trail no sources who provided this info?.

Our two alleged GRU agents were smoking weed and having sex with a hooker and annoying and ranting at guests. They are not professionals. The GRU would not sanction a hit in broad daylight. Lets us just stroll along and let every camera see us? That blows their cover and they can never work again.

suicide_circus

Cheerful Spring is an anagram of Cringe Help Surf

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Our two alleged GRU agents were smoking weed and having sex with a hooker and annoying and ranting at guests. .

Where is this information coming from and why is this source more reliable than bellingcat?

mcmoustache

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Bellingcat is a fake site. Do you honestly think they can just find out a person a secret agent by just looking up some passport information? How do you know what they showing you is even real there is no paper trail no sources who provided this info?.

Our two alleged GRU agents were smoking weed and having sex with a hooker and annoying and ranting at guests. They are not professionals. The GRU would not sanction a hit in broad daylight. Lets us just stroll along and let every camera see us? That blows their cover and they can never work again.

You say it's fake and there's another president who uses that word to describe news that he doesn't like. Anyhoo, according to mediabiasfactcheck...

LEAST BIASED

These sources have minimal bias and use very few loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using appeal to emotion or stereotypes). The reporting is factual and usually sourced. These are the most credible media sources. See all Least Biased sources.
Factual Reporting: HIGH
Notes: Bellingcat uses open source and social media investigation to investigate a variety of subjects, from Mexican drug lords to conflicts being fought across the world. Bellingcat brings together contributors who specialize in open source and social media investigation, and creates guides and case studies so others may learn to do the same. They primarily cover Russian and Syrian stories. They source all of their information. (12/15/2016)

Now, your source for the getting high with a hooker. How reputable is that paper, not that it matters? It's not like GRU can't do that either.

Elmer Blooker

Harika wrote: »

Where is this information coming from and why is this source more reliable than bellingcat?

Bellingcat is an individual named Eliot Higgins. If people want to believe Higgins/Bellingcat that's up to them but he is not impartial.
The Atlantic Council is just one of many anti-Russia 'think-tanks'.
http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/about/experts/list/eliot-higgins