Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

ohnonotgmail

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

They're not civilians visiting the UK sites I not buying that for a second. Putin could be protecting them because they are Russian gangsters or rogue agents. The Russian state will still look after them if it was a rogue operation carried out. Putin ordered this is what stupidity to carry out a chemical attack on UK soil.

I cant make head nor tail of that last sentence at all.

Cheerful Spring

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Don't forget that they did a bit of window shopping ("what will we bring back for Vlad, Boris?"):pac: before they put the novijoke on the Skripal doorknob ... or was it Zizzi's restaurant? ... maybe it was the pub? ... it could have been Mr Skripal's BMW? .. there was something about an industrial estate wasn't there? ... of course there was the park bench too!
It was also disclosed that there was traces of the "deadly" novichok in that cheap looking east London hotel .... six months later! Have other residents who stayed at the hotel at the same time as these two men been traced so that they can get medical treatment after being exposed to a ........ "deadly" agent?




I'm not just supporting what Putin said, this was a hoax from DAY ONE.

There still lot of discrepancies with the story, but that these guys are civilians my gut just says no that's not true.

Cheerful Spring

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I cant make head nor tail of that last sentence at all.

Carrying out a chemical attack on UK soil can invoke the Nato article 5 and start WW3. Putin to have done that he risked war.

super_furry

I should be surprised that there are people here defending the Russian side of the story here and buying into it, but sadly I’m not.

Cheerful Spring

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Carrying out a chemical attack on UK soil can invoke the Nato article 5 and start WW3. Putin to have done that he risked war.

so could invading Ukraine

Grayson

super_furry wrote: »

I should be surprised that there are people here defending the Russian side of the story here and buying into it, but sadly I’m not.

they were the same people saying that russia wasn't involved in east ukraine, they didn't invade crimea and they certainly didn't shoot down a passenger jet.

Edit: there were some I thought might be russian bots/trolls for a while. I don't think they are now but they are weirdly supportive of moscow

robinph

Aegir wrote: »

so could invading Ukraine

Ukraine isn't in Nato so no risk there.

robinph

robinph wrote: »

Ukraine isn't in Nato so no risk there.

Russia broke the Budapest Agreement though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances

xckjoo

Aegir wrote: »

so could invading Ukraine

I thought that was just a bunch of lads who bought some Russian uniforms in the military surplus stores

ohnonotgmail

xckjoo wrote: »

I thought that was just a bunch of lads who bought some Russian uniforms in the military surplus stores

Its amazing what you can buy in the russian version of Army Bargains. Missile launchers and everything.

mcmoustache

The interview itself is interesting.

Did they visit Sergei Skripal's house?
Petrov: Maybe we went by there.

Boshirov: Do you know where the Skripals' home is? I don't.

Petrov: If we would have known where it was.

Boshirov: Maybe we passed by it, maybe we didn't pass by it, I don't know, I hadn't heard. I hadn't heard this surname, I didn't know anything about them before this situation, this nightmare with us started.


What do they do for work?
Boshirov: We are ordinary entrepreneurs. If we talk about our business it will suffer, and the people we work with will suffer, and we don't want this.

Petrov: We will reduce the search area for your colleagues. It's the fitness industry, related to sport nutrition, vitamins, micro-elements, proteins, gainers and so on. If we say more, our partners and a wide circle of acquaintances.

We consult here, now the trend is to consult not about growing your biceps but about keeping your figure, healthy lifestyle.

Boshirov: Eating right, a healthy lifestyle - we don't want to bring attention to this, to get deeper into these questions, I wouldn't want people among our clients to suffer.

xckjoo

mcmoustache wrote: »

The interview itself is interesting.

If I was being accused of assassinating someone, I don't think I'd be so tight lipped about what I did for a living. Fitness industry must be pretty brutal

Sonics2k

mcmoustache wrote: »

The interview itself is interesting.

Ah yes, RT. An absolutely trust-able news source which has never shown any hints of bias towards the Kremlin. And certainly not Government controlled.

mcmoustache

Sonics2k wrote: »

Ah yes, RT. An absolutely trust-able news source which has never shown any hints of bias towards the Kremlin. And certainly not Government controlled.

To add to this, to arrange the interview, they just rang the chief editor of RT on her mobile. Not strange at all. No siree.

Discodog

mcmoustache wrote: »

The interview itself is interesting.

If they are so concerned about their reputations hand themselves in & show their innocence

ohnonotgmail

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Its amazing what you can buy in the russian version of Army Bargains. Missile launchers and everything.

Apparently no one goes to Ukraine these days without their own Buk missile launcher, didn't you know?

ohnonotgmail

Aegir wrote: »

Apparently no one goes to Ukraine these days without their own Buk missile launcher, didn't you know?

A dublin lad once told me he had a buk. Turns out he meant war and peace.


That joke sounded better in my head.

xckjoo

Discodog wrote: »

If they are so concerned about their reputations hand themselves in & show their innocence

TBF I wouldn't either.

cnocbui

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Its amazing what you can buy in the russian version of Army Bargains. Missile launchers and everything.

Uniforms are right between the polonium and novichok. False papers are in the next aisle.

Guy:Incognito

Fair play to the two lads for managing to keep a straight face while rattling off their horse**** story. Extra points for using a couple of facts off Wikipedia.

goat2

They came to sailsbury to see a church, the clock and spire are supposed to be historic, I aam wondering if they already had been to see other churches around Europe, they did not like the weather , they are used of much worse weather

Discodog

goat2 wrote: »

They came to sailsbury to see a church, the clock and spire are supposed to be historic, I aam wondering if they already had been to see other churches around Europe, they did not like the weather , they are used of much worse weather

But strangely forgot to mention the copy of the Magna Carta - maybe that might upset Vlad too much :pac:

devnull

Maybe it's just me, but I never heard anything special about the internationally famous Salisbury Cathedral that everyone from around the world comes to see that they spoke about? Seemed a little odd them saying that, like they wanted to big up the place to butter people up.

bodhrandude

Could you tell the Independent link to hurry up and load so I can scroll the news.

Sal Butamol

Jay z visited Salisbury.

Maybe he's an assassin too.

ohnonotgmail

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Jay z visited Salisbury.

Maybe he's an assassin too.

did they find novichok in his hotel room as well?

Cheerful Spring

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Jay z visited Salisbury.

Maybe he's an assassin too.

Their story doesn't make any sense, why would you be walking near the Skipral home in the first place? Tourists tend to stick close to the town and tourist attractions.

I beginning to think it was a Russians who poisoned Skipral and his daughter, but I am unsure who these guys work for in Russia?

They claim they work in the fitness industry? They look like they are in the mid-30s hardly young fellas who tend to work in that industry nowadays.

Cheerful Spring

Aegir wrote: »

so could invading Ukraine

Yes, they did invade, but there was a coup in the country. The elected government was overthrown by Neo-Nazis. Crimea people rose up and demanded separation you seem to have forgotten that. Ukraine defence force mostly nationalists were heading to the Crimea on trains to start violence and stop this. Putin then ordered the Russian army in to stop this. You forget 67 percent of Crimea people identify themselves as Russian. They were forced to live the Ukraine state after the Soviet Union broke apart.

Cheerful Spring

Discodog wrote: »

If they are so concerned about their reputations hand themselves in & show their innocence

Either way, Skipral was a Russian spy he wasn't a UK citizen.

It's amateur hour. Throwing away the Novitchok and then even this is odd because it alleged the box the poison was in was wrapped and closed? Caught on cameras, doing in daylight, sloppy work. Why were they walking not driving could the Russians not secured a car or van tinted windows to travel around in.

Hoboo

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Either way, Skipral was a Russian spy he wasn't a UK citizen.

It's amateur hour. Throwing away the Novitchok and then even this is odd because it alleged the box the poison was in was wrapped and closed? Caught on cameras, doing in daylight, sloppy work. Why were they walking not driving could the Russians not secured a car or van tinted windows to travel around in.

Probably because they didn't do it.

Cheerful Spring

Hoboo wrote: »

Probably because they didn't do it.

All I can say the hit was not done professionally. Could they be hitmen hired by gangsters in Russia? There was news I read awhile back Skipral was providing information to MI6 about criminal activities in Russia.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, they did invade, but there was a coup in the country. The elected government was overthrown by Neo-Nazis.

Utter drivel and Kremlin propaganda

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian protesters repeatedly marched against a corrupt government culminating in violence (the leader of whom was caught red-handed with a Spanish galleon, fleets of classic cars, gold bars - on "50,000" euros a year)

He was a Russian puppet, kept Sevastopol handily leased to them, all the while bleeding the Ukrainian coffers dry (the country was almost bankrupt at the time he escaped in his helicopter dumping files in his private lake)

Obviously Moscow wasn't happy about this and concocted a neverending stream of propaganda about the ousting of their man. That it was an inside job, that all the protesters were Neo-Nazis (only a minority were far-right, and the 2 far-right candidates got less than 2% of the vote). Subsequently Moscow annexed Crimea (all the while lying about it) and then sparked a war in the East of the country

Pretty much the entire international community condemned Moscow for their actions against Ukraine, refused to recognise the illegal annexation of Crimea and sanctions continue

prinzeugen

Putin has been watching too much 007 films..

They are implying they are a gay couple on a romantic break..

Was it these two? Mr Wint & Mr Kidd? One used perfume!

gandalf

This is just brilliant...

https://twitter.com/RobJoyce156/status/1040246529267838976?s=19

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Utter drivel and Kremlin propaganda

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian protesters repeatedly marched against a corrupt government culminating in violence (the leader of whom was caught red-handed with a Spanish galleon, fleets of classic cars, gold bars - on "50,000" euros a year)

He was a Russian puppet, kept Sevastopol handily leased to them, all the while bleeding the Ukrainian coffers dry (the country was almost bankrupt at the time he escaped in his helicopter dumping files in his private lake)

Obviously Moscow wasn't happy about this and concocted a neverending stream of propaganda about the ousting of their man. That it was an inside job, that all the protesters were Neo-Nazis (only a minority were far-right, and the 2 far-right candidates got less than 2% of the vote). Subsequently Moscow annexed Crimea (all the while lying about it) and then sparked a war in the East of the country

Pretty much the entire international community condemned Moscow for their actions against Ukraine, refused to recognise the illegal annexation of Crimea and sanctions continue

Azov Battalion who were fighting the Russian separatists is Neo-Nazis. Of course, not everyone in Ukraine supports their beliefs, but the Ukraine population does tolerate these groups in the country.

Here is Azov Battalion image. You find plenty more like this online.

Cheerful Spring

Even the BBC did a report in April 2018 highlighting the problem in Ukraine.

mcmoustache

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I beginning to think it was a Russians who poisoned Skipral and his daughter, but I am unsure who these guys work for in Russia?

It took you 6 months to figure that out? You repeated every contradictory conspiracy that was spread by the Russians and refused to entertain what was obvious from the beginning. Have you considered that you are consuming media that's designed to confuse rather than inform?

mcmoustache

mcmoustache wrote: »

It took you 6 months to figure that out? You repeated every contradictory conspiracy that was spread by the Russians and refused to entertain what was obvious from the beginning. Have you considered that you are consuming media that's designed to confuse rather than inform?

He's producing rather than consuming.

Grayson

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Yes, they did invade, but there was a coup in the country. The elected government was overthrown by Neo-Nazis. Crimea people rose up and demanded separation you seem to have forgotten that. Ukraine defence force mostly nationalists were heading to the Crimea on trains to start violence and stop this. Putin then ordered the Russian army in to stop this. You forget 67 percent of Crimea people identify themselves as Russian. They were forced to live the Ukraine state after the Soviet Union broke apart.

bollocks. Crimeans woke up one morning to find that there were little green men everywhere. There wasn't a popular uprising against the Ukrainian government in Crimea. There weren't trainloads of nazi's heading there. The Russian government denied for weeks that it was their forces but then months later they said "oh yeah, those were our guys". They held a sham referendum where even the journalists from moscow voted and then declared that it was legitimate because a load of far right "observers" from across europe declared it was legit. Those far right observers did include actual neo nazi's.

Meanwhile in Donetsk and Lugansk paramilitary forces, sponsored by Russia started taking over the place. The Russians supplemented them with russian troops and let's not forget the russian missile launcher that shot down a passenger jet.

So please, don't peddle your bollox here. The facts of what happened in Ukraine are well established and have been proven over and over again.

Annd9

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Utter drivel and Kremlin propaganda

Hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian protesters repeatedly marched against a corrupt government culminating in violence (the leader of whom was caught red-handed with a Spanish galleon, fleets of classic cars, gold bars - on "50,000" euros a year)

He was a Russian puppet, kept Sevastopol handily leased to them, all the while bleeding the Ukrainian coffers dry (the country was almost bankrupt at the time he escaped in his helicopter dumping files in his private lake)

Obviously Moscow wasn't happy about this and concocted a neverending stream of propaganda about the ousting of their man. That it was an inside job, that all the protesters were Neo-Nazis (only a minority were far-right, and the 2 far-right candidates got less than 2% of the vote). Subsequently Moscow annexed Crimea (all the while lying about it) and then sparked a war in the East of the country

Pretty much the entire international community condemned Moscow for their actions against Ukraine, refused to recognise the illegal annexation of Crimea and sanctions continue

So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?
After all we have been bled dry by EU puppets , we can't see a consultant unless you have a few quid , we can't afford to buy a house or pay rent (even with a decent job ) but if you dare to protest about this you are Scum because you break a couple of minor laws .
Can you imagine the outrage if a few thousand people turned up on O'connell street dressed like medieval knights ready to fight the Garda to the death ?

Crimea is not as simple as it's made out to be . Yes Russia should not of invaded but if you have ever talked to anyone with Russian decent from that area you would know they seriously feared for their lives .
As for Ukraine not having a problem with the far right , I think you need to take a trip to Kiev , it might open your eyes .

kooper

Grayson wrote: »

bollocks. Crimeans woke up one morning to find that there were little green men everywhere. There wasn't a popular uprising against the Ukrainian government in Crimea. There weren't trainloads of nazi's heading there. The Russian government denied for weeks that it was their forces but then months later they said "oh yeah, those were our guys". They held a sham referendum where even the journalists from moscow voted and then declared that it was legitimate because a load of far right "observers" from across europe declared it was legit. Those far right observers did include actual neo nazi's.

Meanwhile in Donetsk and Lugansk paramilitary forces, sponsored by Russia started taking over the place. The Russians supplemented them with russian troops and let's not forget the russian missile launcher that shot down a passenger jet.

So please, don't peddle your bollox here. The facts of what happened in Ukraine are well established and have been proven over and over again.

I'd say most of the thinking people understand it. It is more that 4 years since conflict in Ukraine started. So many events that wasn't known at the beginning now are widely known. It is already known who were the guys that seized Crimea parliament and made deputies to vote for the required decision. The work on identifying russian troops who killed Ukrainians in Donetsk region is going on. If anyone interested here is the link for database with russian militaries who fought in Ukraine: https://informnapalm.org/db/russian-aggression/#lang=en&page=m_unit . So if someone after all those years keep saying obvious bollox, I assume he is either very stubborn person (doesn't want or cannot accept the facts) or he is just paid for the job .

xckjoo

Annd9 wrote: »

So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?
After all we have been bled dry by EU puppets , we can't see a consultant unless you have a few quid , we can't afford to buy a house or pay rent (even with a decent job ) but if you dare to protest about this you are Scum because you break a couple of minor laws .
Can you imagine the outrage if a few thousand people turned up on O'connell street dressed like medieval knights ready to fight the Garda to the death ?

Crimea is not as simple as it's made out to be . Yes Russia should not of invaded but if you have ever talked to anyone with Russian decent from that area you would know they seriously feared for their lives .
As for Ukraine not having a problem with the far right , I think you need to take a trip to Kiev , it might open your eyes .

Funny, I worked with a woman from that area at the time and her opinion was completely contradictory to what you're saying. She was worried for the lives of her parents and other relatives still in the area, but it was because of what Russia might do. She completely identifies as Russian too. I only found out her home was in the Ukraine when the Crimea stuff kicked off.

10000maniacs

I am flying out for a 1 hour sightseeing visit to Salisbury myself. Flying back after I have walked around the town for an hour.
Seriously though. Putin is looking for a war.

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

It took you 6 months to figure that out? You repeated every contradictory conspiracy that was spread by the Russians and refused to entertain what was obvious from the beginning. Have you considered that you are consuming media that's designed to confuse rather than inform?

False I have always said it could be Russians read all the threads on the subject. Just because you have forgotten I have not.

We still don't know if this was Russian intelligence you guys are assuming your right.


If you don't believe that here my post from May 2018. I was not closed-minded ruling out Russians did this, I just wanted better evidence.
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107005571

I said
I open it could be Russia but I don't see any evidence they were involved. It could easily be an internal dispute between Russians, organised crime, MI6 operation, family dispute, rogue agents who can say?

Grayson

Annd9 wrote: »

So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?
After all we have been bled dry by EU puppets , we can't see a consultant unless you have a few quid , we can't afford to buy a house or pay rent (even with a decent job ) but if you dare to protest about this you are Scum because you break a couple of minor laws .
Can you imagine the outrage if a few thousand people turned up on O'connell street dressed like medieval knights ready to fight the Garda to the death ?

Crimea is not as simple as it's made out to be . Yes Russia should not of invaded but if you have ever talked to anyone with Russian decent from that area you would know they seriously feared for their lives .
As for Ukraine not having a problem with the far right , I think you need to take a trip to Kiev , it might open your eyes .

The president resigned and legged it after protests about his corruption. Corruption that has been proven time and time again.

mcmoustache

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I said
I open it could be Russia but I don't see any evidence they were involved. It could easily be an internal dispute between Russians, organised crime, MI6 operation, family dispute, rogue agents who can say?

To be fair, you've been a somewhat all over the place suggesting just about everything. A firehose, if you will, of búllshít. The most common theory that you proposed was a false flag, in effect, claiming that the Brits did this themselves. This was one of the many pieces of Russian propaganda that you were spreading.

In the first few weeks of the poisoning, the Russian state, its media and it's politicians promoted multiple false and contradictory conspiracy theories as part of their typical disinformation program and you were on here spreading the same shíte.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Timing is strange because Russia was being accused of allowing chemical attacks inside Syria. It benefits the UK and America to have this spy murdered in time for the election and world cup. Russia now killing a spy with a nerve agent what amazing coincidence. This has all the markings of a false flag event.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Thanks for posting those links, yes the newspapers did talk about it I was wrong.

Still, though that news is still unconfirmed reports so it could be untrue? And why is the British police saying Skipral was poisoned by his car vents, car door or by his front door. Do you not think if they are finding nerve agents in the pub and restaurant this is where they got poisoned? And why is nobody else sick? The whole thing feels like false flag goalposts constantly moving in different directions.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

True. There is nothing achieved killing a pardoned spy. Just before the Russian election and Russia hosting the world cup an event watched by millions if not billions. Putin would have to be insane to risk the world cup for one man. A man handed over by them to UK officials 8 years ago. This whole thing is fishy and feels like another false flag event ( the obvious motive is to blame Russia) but we don't know who was behind the attack and why exactly it was carried out?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Could be the Ukrainians? Could be Anti Putin people inside Russia planned the killed and had someone carry it out for them. Would not rule out a false flag event on UK soil? The timing is very interesting when Russia and Syria are blamed for killing Syrian civilians with chemical weapons in Ghouta ( false of course) and the West is currently looking for ways to intervene on behave of the jihadists? Killing a Russia spy on UK soil will convince most people ( people like you) it was Russia chemical attack and makes life easier for the UK government to deploy aircraft to Syria to bomb Assad forces when the time comes.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I follow what the experts are saying. None of the experts claims only Russia could have made this nerve agent. This not the UK government position though they keep on saying could only have come from Russia. There is a military chemical facility just 10 minutes away from where Skipral and his daughter were found. This could be an MI6 operation. Their lot of reasons government intelligence agencies carry out false flags and remember this incident the people targetted was Skipral and his daughter. The policeman just got caught up in it?

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

I can see what happened here and it's clearly a false flag.

This is what the Doctor said on March 14th he disappeared from the scene now after making that statement.

The London Times reported on March 14th "Steven Davies - Consultant in emergency medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust

"May I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only been ever been three patients with significant poisoning."

Few days ago https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/salisbury-people-expose-nerve-agent-attack-theresa-may-a8275061.html

More than 130 people could have been exposed to the military-grade nerve agent used in the attack on former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Theresa May has said.

In a statement to Parliament, the Prime Minister said 18 nations had announced they were expelling a total of more than 100 Russian intelligence officers in response to the attack in Salisbury. Since her st,statement the number of countries has risen to more than 20.

The UK government pushing a false narrative and you people just don't see it, unfortunately.

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russia Destroys Chemical Weapons, and Faults U.S. for Not Doing So

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/world/europe/russia-putin-chemical-weapons.html

Hamid Ali Rao, the deputy director of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, a Hague-based body that polices adherence to the 1993 convention, declared the event “a truly momentous occasion.”

He said that it “signals the full elimination of all chemical weapon stockpiles declared by the Russian Federation.”

Russian statement hit home hard for people who got a brain. How did UK test for this nerve agent? What standard did they apply the test to and how did get there hands on the formula to make it. It looks more likely everyday this was another a false flag event with other fake Weapons of Mass Destruction declaration. Watch this space looks like the bad actors are back and looking to cause mayhem in the world.

Dohnjoe

Annd9 wrote: »

So you and other posters on here would be totally fine with a violent uprising in Ireland overthrowing the democratically elected government?

Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

To be fair, you've been a somewhat all over the place suggesting just about everything. A firehose, if you will, of búllshít. The most common theory that you proposed was a false flag, in effect, claiming that the Brits did this themselves. This was one of the many pieces of Russian propaganda that you were spreading.

In the first few weeks of the poisoning, the Russian state, its media and it's politicians promoted multiple false and contradictory conspiracy theories as part of their typical disinformation program and you were on here spreading the same shíte.

There still no evidence these guys are Russian intelligence agents. What your proof they are? What if they are only Russian tourists? Can we really be certain they're not? Yes, I find their tourist story not credible, but that does not mean they were sent to Salisbury by Putin, to carry out out a hit.

You ignoring the evidence so far. The Skiprals left their home at just after 9 am, there no CTV footage released of them returning home. This is problematic because they were spotted leaving home and moving around to different locations in Salisbury town. If they did not return home they were not poisoned by Novitchok on the doorknob, the Russians did not arrive in Salisbury till late after 11 am The Skiprals turned off their phones at the same time British police confirmed this finding. It likely they were trying to avoid surveillance that day, and they possibly were heading out to meet someone? The Novitchok bottle found in Charlie Rowley home was plastic wrapped and sealed? Impossible this was the same batch used to poison Skipral and his daughter. There many discrepancies that you are overlooking.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed

I thought it came out in a Ukrainian court the shooting was done by Georgians.

Aired on Italian TV.

The "evidence" was contained in a film aired a few days earlier on Italian TV, which featured three Georgians who said they were part of a group of foreign snipers paid to gun down protesters and police in Kyiv and thus provoke Yanukovych's overthrow, according to BBC.

This is the Italian documentary about this with subtitles.

Estonian Minister confirms in this documentary the same bullets from the same guns hit police and protestors, confirmed by Ukrainian doctors.

Annd9

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Democracies are not all the equal unfortunately. Ukraine was essentially a vassal state run by corrupt kleptocrats loyal only to Moscow. The previous "elections" were questionable, and less than 5% of Ukrainians believed they were free of vote rigging.

That said, apart from a minority, the protests were relatively peaceful. Several hundred thousand people marched over several days with their families and kids. Later, when protests intensified, Yanukovych ordered his (special guard) to open fire on protesters and over 100 were killed. That's when the situation really changed

The protesters and police were shot a few days after the civil war erupted on the maidan. I am not defending Yanukovych in any way however there is always two sides to a story .
So have a listen to this .

https://youtu.be/ZEgJ0oo3OA8