Two more victims of "unknown substance" in U.K.

Arghus

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm not debating 9/11 with you. Your style is to posit an argument, get it debunked, move on to another, get it debunked and go back to the first one. It's like you have no memory.

Don't forget the insessent demands for "proof" - even though you aren't the one making the crazy unsubstantiated tin-foil hat claims.

That's the real cornerstone tactic.

cnocbui

You forgot to add - demands proof, then when it's provided, behaves as if it hadn't been and then re asserts the exact same nonsense the proof disproved, a few hours later.

Discodog

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You can't answer my question just admit it. Have you any theory at all?

You NEVER answer questions.

Elmer Blooker

mcmoustache wrote: »

It's just the firehose of falsehood. If you consumed enough RT bollox, you'd probably end up the same.

Poster has go at RT and then puts up a link to the Rand Corporation! :pac:
You couldn't make it up.

mcmoustache

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Poster has go at RT and then puts up a link to the Rand Corporation! :pac:
You couldn't make it up.

I'm not sure what your point is here. They're a global think-tank.

Discodog

mcmoustache wrote: »

I'm not sure what your point is here. They're a global think-tank.

His point is to cover for Cheerful's lunch break

muddypaws

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Did some mapping of the men movements. In fact, the men were walking in the opposite direction from Skipral home. Still does mean they were not up there before 11.58?

Top left is Skipral house. And the red line is the direction they walking

You have to walk past the Shell garage to get to Canadian Avenue which leads up to Christie Miller Road. No other cut through before that, so you do walk past it to cut back

Dohnjoe

Guardian reporting on info from the Observer and a Russian investigative outlet that the men have links to the Russian defense ministry and that the tickets were bought at the last minute (contradicting the info that the trip was planned long in advance)

I expect UK intelligence has far more info on them, don't know what they'll make public

mcmoustache

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Guardian reporting on info from the Observer and a Russian investigative outlet that the men have links to the Russian defense ministry and that the tickets were bought at the last minute (contradicting the info that the trip was planned long in advance)

I expect UK intelligence has far more info on them, don't know what they'll make public

And yet, I still expect a refrain of "That makes no sense" from someone who can't see sense.

Elmer Blooker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Guardian reporting on info from the Observer and a Russian investigative outlet that the men have links to the Russian defense ministry and that the tickets were bought at the last minute (contradicting the info that the trip was planned long in advance)

I expect UK intelligence has far more info on them, don't know what they'll make public

Could you give more details about this "Russian investigative outlet" and who they are and their sources etc ...

Dohnjoe

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Could you give more details about this "Russian investigative outlet" and who they are and their sources etc ...

What would be the point

As you mentioned you've 100% made up your mind it's an "inside job"

People who operate from dogmatic entrenched beliefs are unable to handle information that contradicts those beliefs in any rational or objective way. There is simply no point.

Cheerful Spring

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Could you give more details about this "Russian investigative outlet" and who they are and their sources etc ...

It's bellingcat. The UK news media are just rehashing their stuff.

I actually thought it was Russian insider they worked with, this would have given their investigation some credibility. On closer inspection no it basically a fake website. If you translate their stuff from Russian to English you see it all anti-Russia propaganda.

This is the insider Russia website.
ps://theins.ru/politika/117161

Bellingcat probably is another fraud created online to promote an anti-Russia agenda.

Cheerful Spring

mcmoustache wrote: »

And yet, I still expect a refrain of "That makes no sense" from someone who can't see sense.

Some of you guys claim Viktor Yanukovych police murdered civilians in Ukraine. Don't you guys believe that? Where the evidence shows it was done by Georgians recruited outside of the country. You have made a choice to ignore the Ukraine doctors said the police and civilians were gunned down by the same sniper team. The UK media ignores this information, don't they?

What makes you think the UK media is being open and honest with all the facts here? Have you forgotten the UK government convicted innocent men for the Guilford and Birmingham bombings? They have a long history of blaming the wrong people.

Where is the Skiprals why haven't we heard their side of the story? Some of these questions are never asked. When do you remember feeling ill? Why is nobody looking for answers as to why they turned off their phones at the same time and then turned them back on again at the same time? What were you doing between 9 am and 1 pm there is 4-hour gap in the timeline of events.

People like you seem to have forgotten the headlines from a few months novitcok described as most deadly nerve agent known to man. Yet it is found in a hotel room in London and guests and clean up staff was fine? British Police never told the owner of the hotel till a couple of weeks ago they found a nerve agent, isn't that odd absolutely no concern for public safety?

These two Mr Bean GRU agents were carrying out a hit in daylight, not a care in the world they were seen on CTV. We have more CTV images of these guys then we do the Skiprals on that day. And did they just spray this on the door when civilians clothes on, no mask no gloves no biohazard suit?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Where the evidence shows it was done by Georgians recruited outside of the country.

No it doesn't

It's Russian propaganda (they had a conflict with Georgia in 2008). Berkut units were filmed shooting at protesters with Dragunov rifles and other weapons. The wounds suffered by protesters were consistent with those weapons.

You unquestioningly accept Russian propaganda regardless of source. Yet you will attack any information that contradicts that information regardless of source or credibility

Dohnjoe

For all the "inside job" conspiracy theorists in this thread - if you could actually put forward your "inside job" theories that you have been insisting are so strong

Let's start off with names, dates, the paths they took and go from there (normal supporting evidence of any theory)

Very curious to read this

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No it doesn't

It's Russian propaganda (they had a conflict with Georgia in 2008). Berkut units were filmed shooting at protesters with Dragunov rifles and other weapons. The wounds suffered by protesters were consistent with those weapons.

You unquestioningly accept Russian propaganda regardless of source. Yet you will attack any information that contradicts that information regardless of source or credibility

Please read this it a complete study of the events surrounding the massacre in Ukraine.
https://tpo.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine_APSA_Conference.pdf


Their information in this the western media avoids talking about.

The Study was done by Ivan Katchanovski, Ph.D.School of Political Studies
The University of Ottawa Canada.

Annd9

Dohnjoe wrote: »

No it doesn't

It's Russian propaganda (they had a conflict with Georgia in 2008). Berkut units were filmed shooting at protesters with Dragunov rifles and other weapons. The wounds suffered by protesters were consistent with those weapons.

You unquestioningly accept Russian propaganda regardless of source. Yet you will attack any information that contradicts that information regardless of source or credibility

In fairness, both Berkut and (some) protesters were found to have been shot by the same weapons so something strange was definitely happening . Whether or not it's how cheerful spring makes it out I am not sure .

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

For all the "inside job" conspiracy theorists in this thread - if you could actually put forward your "inside job" theories that you have been insisting are so strong

Let's start off with names, dates, the paths they took and go from there (normal supporting evidence of any theory)

Very curious to read this

Charles Rowley claims the Novitchok bottle he found was wrapped up and he had to use a knife to remove the plastic meaning it was sealed not open according to him. He remembers all this but somehow he can't accurately tell us where he discovered the bottle? Where he found the bottle would reveal where the people who this were located when the bottle got dumped.

A sealed Novitchok bottle found means the men brought through customs not one bottle but maybe two even more bottles. Where the men bags searched on camera? Did they get asked at Customs who are these bottles for?

How do you know for sure these men did not come to visit Skipral and their meeting did not go to plan or maybe these bottles were given as a gift to Skipral daughter and she sprayed it on herself and her father afterwards? Do you think Putin has no enemies in Russia? They could have been hired by some Russian Oligarch who wanted to frame Putin. Could it have some disgruntled KGB agent hired them to take out Skipral and Putin was not directly involved?

Would you not think highly trained assassins would do a better job in killing Skipral? They almost did nothing to hide who they were? Strolling around in broad daylight, not a care in the world who saw them. I just find it incredible that GRU who is supposedly the equivalent of the CIA are this sloppy. It feels like a stitch up to me this whole event.

UsedToWait

^ if you're not getting paid for this sh!t, I really don't know what to say.

How many hours a day do you spend propounding wild theories / introducing whatever dead cat you can to muddy the waters of topics that happen to concern Russian interests?

Cheerful Spring

Annd9 wrote: »

In fairness, both Berkut and (some) protesters were found to have been shot by the same weapons so something strange was definitely happening . Whether or not it's how cheerful spring makes it out I am not sure .

Read the PDF I posted its most detailed account of the events you find on the web. The Lawyers for families even stated in a court case against two Berkut police officers in 2015, that many of the civilians were killed from bullets that were coming from the hotel Ukraina this was a location held by the protestors. The lawyers and doctors were able to tell what the trajectory of the bullets was based off the victims wounds. There so much information in that PDF you never see talked about in the western press. The story just doesn't add up it was Berkut policemen killing their own comrades.

muddypaws

Cheerful Spring, you put up photos saying that they were walking away from the Skipral's house, when you were wrong and they were walking towards the house, does that change anything?

Cheerful Spring

muddypaws wrote: »

Cheerful Spring, you put up photos saying that they were walking away from the Skipral's house, when you were wrong and they were walking towards the house, does that change anything?

What this actually proves is the Skiprals were not at home as I suspected. How credible would it be they attacked the door when the Skipral and his daughter were at home? So there were not at home at 12 o clock? So whereabouts were they between 12 am and 1 pm? And how did the two men have any clue they are gone out that day? They could have walked all the way out there and their car be in the driveway and their plan is a bust? There something else going on here and we are missing those details. If Skipral returned home between 12 am and 1 pm there should be images of the car returning on the same road, as the men walked. Its the same direction the Skipral car would have travelled coming out from Salisbury town.

muddypaws

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

muddypaws wrote: »

Cheerful Spring, you put up photos saying that they were walking away from the Skipral's house, when you were wrong and they were walking towards the house, does that change anything?

What this actually proves is the Skiprals were not at home as I suspected. How credible would it be they attacked the door when the Skipral and his daughter were at home? So there were not at home at 12 o clock? So whereabouts were they between 12 am and 1 pm? And how did the two men have any clue they are gone out that day? They could have walked all the way out there and their car be in the driveway and their plan is a bust? There something else going on here and we are missing those details. If Skipral returned home between 12 am and 1 pm there should be images of the car returning on the same road, as the men walked. Its the same direction the Skipral car would have travelled coming out from Salisbury town.

No, if I was driving out from town to their house, I'd use the Devises Road, less traffic and more direct route in

Discodog

UsedToWait wrote: »

^ if you're not getting paid for this sh!t, I really don't know what to say.

How many hours a day do you spend propounding wild theories / introducing whatever dead cat you can to muddy the waters of topics that happen to concern Russian interests?

If is a big word :pac:

UsedToWait

Discodog wrote: »

If is a big word :pac:

You could say it's the Operative word

Cheerful Spring

muddypaws wrote: »

No, if I was driving out from town to their house, I'd use the Devises Road, less traffic and more direct route in

Wilton Road looking at google maps is the quickest route home. We guessing here though we don't know which of two paths he took when returning. We do know there are cameras along both routes so there should be images of the car returning home between 12 noon and 1 pm. It just not believable the Skiprals were at home when it alleged these men spayed Novichok on the door. That's what I am perplexed why the British police have not traced Skipral movements between 12 am and 1 pm. That probably the most crucial part right now in solving this case. And what if these men were actually inside the Skipral home they visited him and that's been kept a secret?

We have a police timeline they left at just after 9 am images of the car were taken on the streets. They then reemerge again at 1.30pm in the town spotted in different locations right up till 4 pm.

Since we know then men did not arrive till near close enough to 12 noon on 4th. That hour between 12 am and 1 pm is the most important hour.

If Skipral was still out between 12 noon and 1.30pm the British police story falls apart.

Cheerful Spring

You have think about it logically. The Skiprals returned after 12 noon touched the door and after awhile they left again in the car and returned to the town

But whereas the evidence the car returned and then left again between 12 noon and 1.30pm? Whereas the CTV images with timestamps? Where the neighbours asked did they see the Skiprals between this time, you know if car was in driveway. Did anyone spot these men up in that estate? Nobody seems to have come forward early in investigation claiming they saw these men up there it's a housing estate it, not believable people would not be out outside or walking around.

muddypaws

No, Devizes Road is the most direct route to CM Road. I haven't spent much time looking into all this stuff but do remember that they went to Salisbury Crematorium to visit his son's grave, so maybe they did that, went home and then back into town.

I don't know why you are assuming that the police are, or would release everything that they have. Why on earth would they do that? They may well have cctv of them in their car, but why would they need to share that with the public?

How do know that neighbours didn't see the men in the estate? Again, the police aren't going to release all the information that they have.

I have no idea what happened, I doubt we'll ever find out.

Cheerful Spring

muddypaws Discovered some evidence that supports your theory the direction the Skiprals travelled that day.



This is the same location.


We still have no evidence of when the car returned home. Did they go home after 12 am to meet these two men? If car was spotted leaving at 1.30pm on that road they had to travel along it again between 12 am and 1 pm, don't you think? See that CTV has a timestamp you be able to piece together when they returned home exactly and how long it would take them to arrive. The men were up at there house allegedly somewhere between 11.45 and 12.15am depending on the walk. How would they know where they be at that time? Where the movements tracked by someone else? You want to know for certain they be gone for a while if you planning on walking out there don't you think? Would not surprise me if these men knew Skipral and they double-crossed him or they could be innocent?

muddypaws

Now might be the time to tell you that I know that area well. My Mum was in Bemerton Lodge, the care home in CM Road for 18 months.

My brother and his family live 5 minutes from there and the whole thing has had a huge impact on Salisbury, tourism was right down this summer and the residents are worried. It's a big mess, I would have expected them to be dead if the Russians were behind it but maybe it was a warning, or maybe someone just messed up. The public won't be told everything. Maybe the Skiprals are in hiding, maybe they're being interrogated, neither the UK or Russia are going to tell us exactly what they did in the past, or possible present.

I assumed that the perfume bottle was found near Charlie Rowley's home, as there is a charity shop on that estate but Salisbury is full of charity shops so it could well have been in the city centre. I don't know why it would be put in a charity bin though, to be handed on to someone else, I'm assuming that means a bin that people put clothes etc in to donate, putting it in a proper bin would be a better way to dispose of it and there are plenty of those as well as dog poo bins around the city. But maybe Charlie isn't telling the truth about where he got it, people do lie.

Cheerful Spring

muddy paws Salisbury Crematorium wheres it located they would have to have travel along the A36 to return home. While you think this is not important it's actually very important. When they returned home would reveal if Skipral was meeting these men for a meeting? Skipral headed home around 12.15 to 1.00pm then he probably missed those guys at his house and the British police story holds up. But if he headed home earlier when the guys were up there he was meeting them for a planned meeting.If Skipral was at home between 12am and 1pm the British story are hiding information about what Skipral was up to.

Map you see where the Crematorium and graveyard are located.

Cheerful Spring

muddypaws wrote: »

Now might be the time to tell you that I know that area well. My Mum was in Bemerton Lodge, the care home in CM Road for 18 months.

My brother and his family live 5 minutes from there and the whole thing has had a huge impact on Salisbury, tourism was right down this summer and the residents are worried. It's a big mess, I would have expected them to be dead if the Russians were behind it but maybe it was a warning, or maybe someone just messed up. The public won't be told everything. Maybe the Skiprals are in hiding, maybe they're being interrogated, neither the UK or Russia are going to tell us exactly what they did in the past, or possible present.

I assumed that the perfume bottle was found near Charlie Rowley's home, as there is a charity shop on that estate but Salisbury is full of charity shops so it could well have been in the city centre. I don't know why it would be put in a charity bin though, to be handed on to someone else, I'm assuming that means a bin that people put clothes etc in to donate, putting it in a proper bin would be a better way to dispose of it and there are plenty of those as well as dog poo bins around the city. But maybe Charlie isn't telling the truth about where he got it, people do lie.

That's what I find fishy what aren't the UK media not allowed to talk to the Skiprals? Julia Skipral looked healthy on video and she did not even say anything about what happened it looked like a scripted performance. Are you not going to know when you felt ill and if your father was meeting men from Russia? There no reason to not do a proper interview unless you trying to cover up something. There is serious claims been made here. Like is not trivial to blame a foreign country for carrying out a chemical attack.

Charlie Rowley found the bottle in Salisbury if he found in Amesbury the British story collapses entirely. That area is 11km outside of Salisbury these two Russian men were nowhere near that village. He seems unable to recall where exactly he found it only that was sealed in a box with plastic and he had to use a knife to open it, he claims.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

That's what I find fishy what aren't the UK media not allowed to talk to the Skiprals? Julia Skipral looked healthy on video and she did not even say anything about what happened it looked like a scripted performance. Are you not going to know when you felt ill and if your father was meeting men from Russia? There no reason to not do a proper interview unless you trying to cover up something. There is serious claims been made here. Like is not trivial to blame a foreign country for carrying out a chemical attack.

There are tons of reasons not to talk to the media, especially as they are not public persons.
On the other hand don't you find it strange that CNN offered a million dollar for the interview with the two Russian, BBC a bit less like nbc but the two decided to go to Russia Today for free?

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

There are tons of reasons not to talk to the media, especially as they are not public persons.
On the other hand don't you find it strange that CNN offered a million dollar for the interview with the two Russian, BBC a bit less like nbc but the two decided to go to Russia Today for free?

There plenty of reasons to hear their side of the story. This is an international incident with long-term complications for the world. Russia has been accused so all the facts should be known.

That the British have made a choice to not reveal if they returned to their home address between 12 noon and 1 pm, is damning.

Don't you think this would prove the Skiprals were poisoned at home? If Skipral was travelling home between 12 noon and 1 pm you probably even see the Skipral and his daughter in the car because the camera would be imaging the front of the car, not the back of it as passed. The back of the car is heading into Salisbury town.

British police are saying this incident took place between 11.45 and 12.15 roughly, that means the Skiprals could have been at home because we have no images of them on the road going home between 9am and 1.30pm?

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

There plenty of reasons to hear their side of the story. This is an international incident with long-term complications for the world. Russia has been accused so all the facts should be known.

Good so why are the accused Russians dodging International press and UK investigators?

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

https://tpo.nl/wp-content/uploads/2015/11/Snipers_Massacre_on_the_Maidan_in_Ukraine_APSA_Conference.pdf

http://ivan-katchanovski.blogspot.com/

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

Good so why are the Russian dodging International press and UK investigators?

Russia has invited Scotland Yard to interview the men. Do you think Putin would do that if they were agents of the GRU. There could be involved in some way with this incident but it's not too clear yet who they work for.

I just find it odd the GRU would carry this out in broad daylight and allow their agents to be captured on CTV. They are professionals in the GRU (FSB) they would have known these men would have got spotted. The KGB did not come as famous as they did for being stupid.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

http://ivan-katchanovski.blogspot.com/

The PDF covers the cover-up by the Ukranian government. Not surprising they were looking to blame Russia. They ignored forensic and eyewitnesses accounts that documented in that PDF

You trying to claim the Russian sniper team was shooting police officers? You realise how insane that sounds? Killing unarmed civilians was hardly going to help the government side? You do that to garner support and overthrow the leader in power.

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Charles Rowley claims the Novitchok bottle he found was wrapped up

You obviously believe there's an alternative theory at play here

Therefore the evidence for that other theory must be stronger - so please provide it

If you don't believe in an alternative theory, then why are you in this thread?

Otherwise you are pulling an Alex Jones and sitting on the fence trying to discredit events with your own subjective waffle and misunderstandings hoping it will hint at some vast "inside job" conspiracy, without ever fleshing out the alternative

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

The PDF covers the cover-up by the Ukranian government. Not surprising they were looking to blame Russia. They ignored forensic and eyewitnesses accounts that documented in that PDF

As predicted - you find one piece of information on the internet that supports your extreme world view. That piece of information solidifies as "the truth" in your head and it conveniently follows the exact same narrative as all of your other conspiracy theories, holocaust denial, etc. When I provide information that counters it you immediately reject it

Psychologically you cannot escape your world views, they project the world around you. You are simply unable to process the truth about these events, nor have any interest in it. The only thing of interest to you are a certain type of conspiracy, which you (and you alone) magically find everywhere

That can't be debated with - only pointed out to others who might not be aware of it

cnocbui

Why TF do you waste your time - and those who get sucked into your nonsense - with maps and scenarios and routes and timings and whole lot more bull, when you have novichok found in their hotel room?

It's like arguing a suspect in a murder is the wrong person because a witness 'thought' it was a green jacket, but it turned out to be blue, when the police arrived at the scene, caught them with a knife in their hand, they were covered in blood and then made a full confession.

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You obviously believe there's an alternative theory at play here

Therefore the evidence for that other theory must be stronger - so please provide it

If you don't believe in an alternative theory, then why are you in this thread?

Otherwise you are pulling an Alex Jones and sitting on the fence trying to discredit events with your own subjective waffle and misunderstandings hoping it will hint at some vast "inside job" conspiracy, without ever fleshing out the alternative

You pretend you know Skipral business when you don't. I not entirely convinced Skipral did not know these men? I find it very suspicious they have not released CTV images of Skipral returning home between 9 am and 12 am and 12 noon and 1 pm. If Skipral was actually at home after 9 am when the men called later the British police are covering up this fact. When the British police provide evidence of Skipral returning home and the time I will be more convinced they are not lying.

Dohnjoe

cnocbui wrote: »

Why TF do you waste your time - and those who get sucked into your nonsense - with maps and scenarios and routes and timings and whole lot more bull, when you have novichok found in their hotel room?

It's like arguing a suspect in a murder is the wrong person because a witness 'thought' it was a green jacket, but it turned out to be blue, when the police arrived at the scene, caught them with a knife in their hand, they were covered in blood and then made a full confession.

We're masochists apparently

Cheerful Spring

Dohnjoe wrote: »

As predicted - you find one piece of information on the internet that supports your extreme world view. That piece of information solidifies as "the truth" in your head and it conveniently follows the exact same narrative as all of your other conspiracy theories, holocaust denial, etc. When I provide information that counters it you immediately reject it

Psychologically you cannot escape your world views, they project the world around you. You are simply unable to process the truth about these events, nor have any interest in it. The only thing of interest to you are a certain type of conspiracy, which you (and you alone) magically find everywhere

That can't be debated with - only pointed out to others who might not be aware of it

Your debating style is posting websites links I know you please stop pretending you actually debate subjects. When I call you out on on the conspiracy site you disappear. You don't even know the arguments, you drop a link and ignore what the other side saying. But like i have shown you already even your friends on JREF are accepting now that Saudi Arabia had a hand in 9/11. Remember when you were calling me an idiot for believing this and telling me to stop promoting fake stuff. Well, maybe it's you, not me that's the problem? Even Oystein a well respected 9/11 Skeptic even said Prince Bandar was likely involved. So are you going to just ignore who Prince Bandar was? The US ambassador and former head of Saudi Intelligence and friend to neocons in the US?

Cheerful Spring

cnocbui wrote: »

Why TF do you waste your time - and those who get sucked into your nonsense - with maps and scenarios and routes and timings and whole lot more bull, when you have novichok found in their hotel room?

It's like arguing a suspect in a murder is the wrong person because a witness 'thought' it was a green jacket, but it turned out to be blue, when the police arrived at the scene, caught them with a knife in their hand, they were covered in blood and then made a full confession.

Do you know the police only told the hotel owner they found Novitchok in a room only a week ago? You don't find that suspicious. You don't find it odd the deadliest nerve agent leaked in a room and nobody working there got sick? I guess the hotel cleaners are immune to Novitchok get them to the lab and make a vaccine! I guess guests are immune also.

They never caught them you have two men walking on the main road not even in the estate.

Harika

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Russia has invited Scotland Yard to interview the men. Do you think Putin would do that if they were agents of the GRU. There could be involved in some way with this incident but it's not too clear yet who they work for.

I just find it odd the GRU would carry this out in broad daylight and allow their agents to be captured on CTV. They are professionals in the GRU (FSB) they would have known these men would have got spotted. The KGB did not come as famous as they did for being stupid.

For the same reason the Müller investigation is not going to Moscow. They did that in the past, two things happened : it was a merry go round and the promised interview never happened or the FSB was supervising it to gather the information Scotland Yard actually had.
Putin does not give a thing about covering that up, as it was a test of the UK and its partners how they would react on such an attack as shown in the Russia today interview where the suspects gave sloppy Wikipedia answers why they were going there and that by pure accident knocked at the skripal door as they were lost.
Now they just throw disinformation around and have it amplify in the echo chamber. Old tactics of them.

Cheerful Spring

Harika wrote: »

For the same reason the Müller investigation is not going to Moscow. They did that in the past, two things happened : it was a merry go round and the promised interview never happened or the FSB was supervising it to gather the information Scotland Yard actually had.
Putin does not give a thing about covering that up, as it was a test of the UK and its partners how they would react on such an attack as shown in the Russia today interview where the suspects gave sloppy Wikipedia answers why they were going there and that by pure accident knocked at the skripal door as they were lost.
Now they just throw disinformation around and have it amplify in the echo chamber. Old tactics of them.

Pablo Miller, is Skipral MI6 handler. He is a friend of Christoper Steele they both work for same company Orbis business Intelligence. There some connection between Russiagate and this Skipral affair, least I think so. It would not surprise me if these guys were recruited inside Russia?. Could they be send there by a Russian oligarch opposed to Putin or recruited by some foreign agency? There also the possibility they are GRU and Skipral were releasing harmful info? It feels like a stitch up they wanted Putin to be blamed for it., too neat and tidy. There also possibility Skipral was about to expose some corruption and his handlers saw an opportunity there?

Muller investigation is a politic game it's going on two years now and he still to find evidence Russia was directing Trump. Of course, there was some meetings and collusion but it was about Hilary. She is corrupt anyhow so not sure why people keep defending her. It, not like she some Willy Wonka figure that should be loved and cherished. What I find funny is the American elite ignore corruption in the DNC. The Americans need to take a hard look themselves before blaming another country for interference.

muddypaws

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

You pretend you know Skipral business when you don't. I not entirely convinced Skipral did not know these men? I find it very suspicious they have not released CTV images of Skipral returning home between 9 am and 12 am and 12 noon and 1 pm. If Skipral was actually at home after 9 am when the men called later the British police are covering up this fact. When the British police provide evidence of Skipral returning home and the time I will be more convinced they are not lying.

But why should they provide that evidence to the public? If ever anyone is prosecuted, evidence will be produced in court, that's how the criminal justice system works.

I don't know about your posts elsewhere but in this thread, you said that the men were walking away from the house. I, with local knowledge was able to show that they weren't. Using google maps to work out the most likely route of a car journey doesn't take into account local knowledge of which route is actually quicker and easier. The police have local knowledge, so things that may seem nonsensical to you make perfect sense to those on the ground. Don't presume that your theories are based in fact.

Cheerful Spring

muddypaws wrote: »

But why should they provide that evidence to the public? If ever anyone is prosecuted, evidence will be produced in court, that's how the criminal justice system works.

I don't know about your posts elsewhere but in this thread, you said that the men were walking away from the house. I, with local knowledge was able to show that they weren't. Using google maps to work out the most likely route of a car journey doesn't take into account local knowledge of which route is actually quicker and easier. The police have local knowledge, so things that may seem nonsensical to you make perfect sense to those on the ground. Don't presume that your theories are based in fact.

They are well able to post multiple images of Russian men walking streets and Skipral driving away from his home. Why don't they just show us Skipral car returning home? Why is that so hard when people online have doubts? If I saw Skipral car returning home between 12 am and 1 pm on CTV for me that's convincing evidence he and his daughter did indeed touch the door that had Novitchok. But so far we have nothing that shows when Skipral returned home. Leaving home at 1.30pm in his car does not tell us anything about his whereabouts only his coming away from that direction of his home and heading to the town. But since we know he left home at 9 am he had to have returned home and left again those images never got released?

The men are on a different road to where the Skipral car passed at 1.30pm. We have no evidence they went up a side road or anything to reach the house. You assume they did because that's the British side of the story. I not saying you not right but there nothing in the images released shows that happened.

muddypaws

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Why is that so hard when people online have doubts?

I'm outta here. If your whole rationale of how police forces should operate is that, it's pointless.

Get out into the real world and live your life.