Penalty points lasting 37 months

penelope2012

Hoping someone can help, I was stopped by Garda for phone use in mid June, I got the fixed notice which I paid and today got a letter dated 2nd july notifying me of the penalty points being applied. Now these are my first ever points so I am not sure whether anyone else ever noticed this, but the points are on my licence since end of June yet they won't come off till end of July three years time. That would be OK but for the fact that it will affect 4 insurance renewals which surely is not fair. I am renewing this week but have notified my insurance and it isn't making any difference but what if I get 3 more over the next three years. It surely cannot be legal!!!! Any advice appreciated

GM228

penelope2012 wrote: »

Hoping someone can help, I was stopped by Garda for phone use in mid June, I got the fixed notice which I paid and today got a letter dated 2nd july notifying me of the penalty points being applied. Now these are my first ever points so I am not sure whether anyone else ever noticed this, but the points are on my licence since end of June yet they won't come off till end of July three years time. That would be OK but for the fact that it will affect 4 insurance renewals which surely is not fair. I am renewing this week but have notified my insurance and it isn't making any difference but what if I get 3 more over the next three years. It surely cannot be legal!!!! Any advice appreciated

What do you think isn't legal exactly? Penalty points are endorsed for 36 months (not 37) in accordance with law.

The points are not on your licence from the end of June (you actually have ZERO penalty points at this very moment). Rather you will have three penalty points from 30th July, they are applied 28 days after the date of the notice you received, not in relation to the timing of the offence.

penelope2012

Thanks for that. I see now that it says from 30 july 2018 so I must notify my insurance!! it didn't result in any charge though from the insurance. That is annoying though why don't they put them on from when you are stopped? Like I was stopped on 12th June for mobile and it is 3 penalty points that are on my licence according to the letter not two.

Thanks again

GM228 wrote: »

What do you think isn't legal exactly? Penalty points are endorsed for 36 months (not 37) in accordance with law.

The points are not on your licence from the end of June (you actually have ZERO penalty points at this very moment). Rather you will have two penalty points from 30th July, they are applied 28 days after the date of the notice you received, not in relation to the timing of the offence.

GM228

penelope2012 wrote: »

Thanks for that. I see now that it says from 30 july 2018 so I must notify my insurance!! it didn't result in any charge though from the insurance. That is annoying though why don't they put them on from when you are stopped? Like I was stopped on 12th June for mobile and it is 3 penalty points that are on my licence according to the letter not two.

Thanks again

Three points is correct, they are never applied from the time of offence for a number of reasons and are afforded the 28 days to allow for an appeal timeframe.

ligertigon

So after paying the €80, and getting the RSA notification,.... You can still ask for a refund and appeal in court?

GM228

ligertigon wrote: »

So after paying the €80, and getting the RSA notification,.... You can still ask for a refund and appeal in court?

No, the 28 days is to appeal a court conviction and associated points.

Despite this there is still a 28 day timeframe on points applied where there is no court conviction (i.e paying a FCPN).

Most are not aware of this, but you can appeal non court applied penalty points and seek a refund on the penalty paid to the Chief Superintendent of the GNTB at any time.

ligertigon

Interesting. who is gntb? and how would one go about appealing?

GM228

ligertigon wrote: »

Interesting. who is gntb? and how would one go about appealing?

The "Garda National Traffic Bureau".

There is no official forms for doing this, you just state your case in writing to the Fixed Charge Processing Office in Thurles and they pass it on to the GNTB.

ligertigon

GM228 wrote: »

The "Garda National Traffic Bureau".

There is no official forms for doing this, you just state your case in writing to the Fixed Charge Processing Office in Thurles and they pass it on to the GNTB.

Well, did it. and was told they cannot intervene after I payed the €80, as it was an aknowledgement of the endorsement.....

penelope2012

I thought as much! I was in hard luck getting mine as my car with Bluetooth was in garage I had the garage car and they rang me about my own car I had phone on speaker but they couldn’t hear took it off speaker put phone to my ear and was nabbed!! It was so random that it was funny I am never on mobile in my car just got caught the once I picked it up!! I won’t bother writing to them so as I expect they won’t have any sympathy for me!!

ligertigon

I should have gone to court with my encounter, but it was too late....

GM228

ligertigon wrote: »

Well, did it. and was told they cannot intervene after I payed the €80, as it was an aknowledgement of the endorsement.....

They told you wrong, they can intervene and remove penalty points after application, but it is on a case by case basis. It is not something which is advertised or has any official procedure to follow but most definitely does happen.

GM228

GM228 wrote: »

ligertigon wrote: »

GM228 wrote: »

The "Garda National Traffic Bureau".

There is no official forms for doing this, you just state your case in writing to the Fixed Charge Processing Office in Thurles and they pass it on to the GNTB.

Well, did it. and was told they cannot intervene after I payed the €80, as it was an aknowledgement of the endorsement.....

They told you wrong, they can intervene and remove penalty points after application, but it is on a case by case basis. It is not something which is advertised or has any official procedure to follow but most definitely does happen.

Stumbled across this today:-

http://justice.ie/en/JELR/Pages/PQ-20-10-2015-361

361. Deputy Ruth Coppinger asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if she will report on the contact her Department has with An Garda Síochána regarding the process in place for payment of and appeal of speeding fines; and if she will make a statement on the matter.

362. Deputy Ruth Coppinger asked the Minister for Justice and Equality if a mechanism exists to deal with an appeal of a speeding fine and penalty points, where after paying a fine the driver notices that there was an error by An Garda Síochána (details supplied).

And the reply:-

Frances Fitzgerald wrote:

I propose to take Questions Nos. 361 and 362 together.

As Minister for Justice and Equality, I have no direct role in the payment and cancellation procedures in relation to Fixed Charge Notices, which are an operational matter for An Garda Síochána, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on individual cases.

I am informed by the Garda authorities that any request for expungement of penalty points or removal of disqualification must be submitted via the Fixed Charge Processing Office to the Chief Superintendent Garda National Traffic Bureau (GNTB). This refers to penalty points that are applied to a licence record on payment of a fixed charge and not penalty points applied as a result of a court conviction. An application for a refund may be considered in exceptional circumstances, and following an investigation by the Garda authorities, where it is established that the penalty points should not have been applied. A refund application with supporting documentation should be made through the Fixed Charge Processing Office.