Open/Closed Window Blinds on Flights?

Under His Eye

I will simply book with airlines that do not have this stupid policy. Simples.

Mebuntu

I am sure disobeying a request by cabin crew is an offence in itself (no matter how daft the request is).

I'm not sure how far that goes. In relation to safety and all that the CC rule is law but any other orders would have to be reasonable. I'm sure you would not accede to a request to remove your wig!

In your (United) case you might have put yourself in line for big payout had they laid a hand on you.

jon1981 wrote: »

Not always possible depending on time of booking/availability. Don't be so ignorant... a few hours away from looking into the blue yonder won't hurt you... on the other hand a blinding glare will.

This is not dissimilar to the reclining seat argument. I don't like you reclining your seat into my face but I have to live with it because CC don't care if I'm affected by it because the airline has put in reclining seats to be used if desired. I think forcing the blinds to be down for an entire trip is ludicrous. You pay for or they give you a window seat and then when you're onboard they refuse to let you look out the window. If you were brought to court over it the judge would laugh the case out the window!

jon1981

Mebuntu wrote: »

This is not dissimilar to the reclining seat argument. I don't like you reclining your seat into my face but I have to live with it because CC don't care if I'm affected by it because the airline has put in reclining seats to be used if desired. I think forcing the blinds to be down for an entire trip is ludicrous. You pay for or they give you a window seat and then when you're onboard they refuse to let you look out the window. If you were brought to court over it the judge would laugh the case out the window!

You cannot equate the two. A reclining seat in front of you is merely a discomfort and sure you can recline yours also. A blinding glare is very different.

Mebuntu

jon1981 wrote: »

You cannot equate the two. A reclining seat in front of you is merely a discomfort and sure you can recline yours also. A blinding glare is very different.

I would never recline a seat and take up someone else's space. A reclining seat is not just a discomfort. It's a physical obstacle. In your case you can always recline your seat and just close your eyes

jon1981

Mebuntu wrote: »

I would never recline a seat and take up someone else's space. A reclining seat is not just a discomfort. It's a physical obstacle. In your case you can always recline your seat and just close your eyes

The funny thing is, 90% of the time there is nothing to see!

Dial Hard

I'm flying to Atlanta and onwards to Orlando with Delta tomorrow and I really hope they don't have this stupid policy.

I have absolutely no issue pulling the blind if someone nearby is getting blinded or can't see their screen properly but trying to darken the entire cabin for a daytime flight is just plain ludicrous.

DOCARCH

I have to say that I have never reclined my seat on aircraft on any flight I have taken in my life, out of respect for the person behind me as I do not like it when the seat in front of me is reclined!

In the same vein, in the past, when I have had a window seat on the sunny side of the aircraft with the sun beaming in, I have closed my blind....given up my view....when I felt it was causing discomfort to other passengers around me/sitting near me.

Maybe I am a too conscientious passenger!

DOCARCH

jon1981 wrote: »

The funny thing is, 90% of the time there is nothing to see!

People should have the right to see nothing if they want too!

I traveled to JFK in March with Delta (no blind policy on that flight) and where you might expect to see nothing on the US/Canada side of the Atlantic, it was pretty spectacular seeing icebergs in coming down from the Labrador Straits.

Also you might see I am weather mod, so, looking at clouds (below) is always interesting (....to me)!

jon1981

DOCARCH wrote: »

Maybe I am a too conscientious passenger!

No, that's just being a nice human being, not a d!ck

cbyrd

DOCARCH wrote:

Any logical rational for this policy and is this common practice now?

It's in case of an emergency landing, so you'll be able to see the light strips down the aisle.

Noxegon

Passengers are obligated to obey instructions given by crew members.

Mebuntu

Noxegon wrote: »

Passengers are obligated to obey instructions given by crew members.

In principle I agree with you but, as in the case of Dr Dao, unreasonable instructions may be (correctly) challenged and, as we now know, cost the airline a big payout.

I'm unlikely ever to fly long-haul again but I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

DOCARCH

Mebuntu wrote: »

I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

Will set up crowd funding for same! :P

Dial Hard

Dial Hard wrote: »

I have absolutely no issue pulling the blind if someone nearby is getting blinded or can't see their screen properly but trying to darken the entire cabin for a daytime flight is just plain ludicrous.

I agree and quite often even on short flights have lowered the blind to stop the person across from me getting the reflected light in their face. I flew recently in the aisle seat watching my tablet and didn’t get troubled by the window being open beside me and the person in front in full recline either. I guess I just don’t get upset by others.

Mebuntu

DOCARCH wrote: »

Will set up crowd funding for same! :P

LOL. It would have to be very hush-hush, though. If EI CC got to hear about it in advance they might try a bribe with a bump up to 1st Class.

Which puts a thought in my head. Would CC have the nerve to tell someone who'd paid a fortune to travel at the front of the cabin to not be looking out the window?

Mebuntu

Mebuntu wrote: »

In principle I agree with you but, as in the case of Dr Dao, unreasonable instructions may be (correctly) challenged and, as we now know, cost the airline a big payout.

I'm unlikely ever to fly long-haul again but I'd nearly be tempted to book a flight and challenge the ridiculous and unreasonable blind-closing-for-the-whole-trip instruction to see what would happen - on the return flight, of course

I would fully agree with “reasonable” here, if for example I peaked out my window and saw the wonderful vista of the ice floes of the artic or northern lights and sat watching it, is it reasonable to say no to the CC when they instruct me to put it down by reasonably say “I haven’t seen this before I’d like to watch it for a while and take some pictures”. It’s hardly endangering the aircraft/crew/passengers is it. For heavens sake the aircraft has bloody windows imagine the cheek of me to actually use them.

General comment below

Also while I don’t mind sitting with my seat up and don’t get troubled by the person in front reclining since when has it become a thing to have a mickey fit over the person in front using the recline function installed on the seat they paid for ?! Some have suggested it’s etiquette to not recline, heavens above flights are painful enough in the tiny space they give you without relieving some of it by reclining an inch........an inch !!

Under His Eye

Mebuntu wrote: »

LOL. It would have to be very hush-hush, though. If EI CC got to hear about it in advance they might try a bribe with a bump up to 1st Class.

Which puts a thought in my head. Would CC have the nerve to tell someone who'd paid a fortune to travel at the front of the cabin to not be looking out the window?

I highly doubt it. More than their jobs worth.

Has anyone officially complained to the airline about this unwelcome practice?

It sounds like a mission to Area 51.

DOCARCH

Under His Eye wrote: »

Has anyone officially complained to the airline about this unwelcome practice?

Tweeted United and all they had to say on the matter was....

'Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible'.

A bit lame to be honest! Especially in my case where on the return journey we were instructed to close blinds pulling back from the gate....at night/in the dark!

Sent to few follow on tweets....they have not responded.

I and going fill out/submit their 'feedback' (....complaints....) form online and see what they come back with.

DOCARCH

DOCARCH wrote: »

Tweeted United and all they had to say on the matter was....

'Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible'.

A bit lame to be honest! Especially in my case where on the return journey we were instructed to close blinds pulling back from the gate....at night/in the dark!

Sent to few follow on tweets....they have not responded.

I and going fill out/submit their 'feedback' (....complaints....) form online and see what they come back with.

Translated as, reduces energy consumption required to cool the cabin by .00000001% and saves us $2 a year per aircraft.

I wouldn’t be paying them thousands of dollars for a business class seat to be told to keep my blind down for a start.

Mebuntu

OK, I have written the (first part) of the script and, perhaps, others more au fait with CC ops can give an indication of what might happen next.

CC: "Excuse me, Sir, You must pull down the window blind".
Me: " Huh? Why?"
CC: "It's the rule, Sir."
Me: "What rule?"
CC: "The rule that window blinds must be pulled down, Sir"
Me: "For how long?"
CC: "The whole flight, Sir".
Me: "You mean you want me to sit here at the window for 9 hours and not be allowed to look out through it".
CC: "That's right, Sir"
Me: (after a short pause, look of disbelief and entering into eccentric old guy mode) "Young lady, when I booked this flight I purposely chose this Window seat so that I could watch the outside world go by. There was no notice attached to the seat booking that said although it is a window seat you will not be allowed to look out through it. I consider that to be a totally unreasonable request which I am terribly sorry but I couldn't possibly agree to it".

vicwatson

Noxegon wrote: »

Passengers are obligated to obey instructions given by crew members.

Yes but some crew get very power hungry

Under His Eye

If anyone asks me to remove my wig, I shall be most upset.

billy few mates

One other aspect to be considered in all this is the photo luminescent strip on the cabin floor that glows to light up the escape route in an emergency. On a lot of modern aircraft these floor path lighting strips aren't powered any more, they work by absorbing ambient light
under normal light conditions and reflecting it back when its dark. The less light they absorb the less effective they become.
If operators decide they want to fly around in darkened cabins all the time maybe they should have to seek OEM or regulatory approval and demonstrate the effectiveness of this system in an emergency situation doesn't become compromised by prolonged low lighting conditions.
There's a procedure for testing this system on maintenance checks, it basically involves closing all the cabin window blinds and measuring the luminosity of the tracks at various points in the cabin. They often fail when the aircraft has been in the hangar for a long period of time. The only fix is to fully light the cabin for a few hours preferably outside of the hangar in bright sunlight and try it again by which time it usually passes. It's all well and good the passenger services department dreaming up a new procedure to enhance the guest experience but there could be airworthiness or safety implications. The last thing you want after a long flight in a darkened cabin is an emergency evacuation where the emergency floor path lighting system doesn't work to its maximum potential...

vicwatson

Next you’ll be asked to remove sunglasses for the duration

California Dreamer

Last October DUB-MCO with EI. Sitting in business class beside the window.

I was requested to close the blind. I declined saying that i had work to do and that due to the routing of the aircraft we would pass over Greenland and I didn't want to miss it! Cue feeble protests followed by me talking about how great AerClub platinum is(I don't have it and I think AerClub is ****e) and I was left alone!!

We got over Greenland and all the blinds in business went up for fellow pax to see it!

Mebuntu

California Dreamer wrote: »

Last October DUB-MCO with EI. Sitting in business class beside the window.

I was requested to close the blind. I declined saying that i had work to do and that due to the routing of the aircraft we would pass over Greenland and I didn't want to miss it! Cue feeble protests followed by me talking about how great AerClub platinum is(I don't have it and I think AerClub is ****e) and I was left alone!!

We got over Greenland and all the blinds in business went up for fellow pax to see it!

So the CC did have the nerve to request Business Class blinds down!

Well done to you for refusing.

California Dreamer

Mebuntu wrote: »

So the CC did have the nerve to request Business Class blinds down!

Well done to you for refusing.

It wasn't as bad as it was for me in economy on a recent DUB-EWR flight last month but it was 'suggested'.

I was lucky I was actually on a UA ticket but due to storms in NY I got a free change to the EI codeshare direct to MCO.

GreeBo

DOCARCH wrote: »

My wife tweeted United to ask....they replied and said....

Hi there, great question, we require you to keep the blinds shut on hot, day flights as a way to keep the cabin as cool as possible.

Not a plausible answer (in my opinion).

At 35K feet it's normally approx. -50c (+/- 5c)! You usually can see the ice build up on the window! The (very) cold window helps minimise solar gain in the cabin and in any case the gap between the blind and inner window heats up instead and eventually transfers into the cabin anyway.

Have to get to the bottom of this as I think it's a mind control policy!!!

The blind isn't stopping the cold air from getting in, it's the warm sun rays!
If the suns rays can pass through the window then the cabin heats up, doesn't matter how cold the window itself is, it's not conducting the heat.
The conduction between the gap is more than offset by the cold exterior window.

Also, one open blind can dazzle many people so they are all closed to avoid issues.

California Dreamer

GreeBo wrote: »

Also, one open blind can dazzle many people so they are all closed to avoid issues.

Will someone please think of the poor people!!!!!!!!

Bloody snowflakes!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

LionelNashe

jon1981 wrote: »

.... A reclining seat in front of you is merely a discomfort and sure you can recline yours also. ....

Some female journalist made the same argument a couple of weeks ago as part of an opinion piece on why she was going to continue to recline her seat. Anyone who has ever been on a plane, and who has long legs, understands the flaw in the argument. If my kneecaps are pressing into the hard plastic of your reclined seat, then reclining my seat doesn't change that at all. Reclining my seat changes the position of my head, my chest & my stomach - my arse, legs, and feet are still in the same position as before.