Open/Closed Window Blinds on Flights?

DOCARCH

GreeBo wrote: »

The blind isn't stopping the cold air from getting in, it's the warm sun rays!
If the suns rays can pass through the window then the cabin heats up, doesn't matter how cold the window itself is, it's not conducting the heat.
The conduction between the gap is more than offset by the cold exterior window.

I am well aware of solar gain (irrespective of temperature). However, at normal cruising height I suspect the interior of the aircraft generally could do with all the heat it can get! With an outside temperature of approx -50c I am sure the interior of the aircraft needs to be heated (rather than cooled).

On the ground is a totally different matter. On the same trip I also flew (with United) to Tampa (in Florida). No blind policy on that flight except that when we landed/taxied to the gate, just before the seat belt sign was turned off, everybody was asked to close their blinds before leaving the seat to help keep the aircraft cool for subsequent/boarding passengers. That policy is quite logical.

smurfjed

With an outside temperature of approx -50c I am sure the interior of the aircraft needs to be heated (rather than cooled).

We routinely fly with the airconditioning in max cold and for anything less than 3 hours we can't cool the cabin. Solar heating is quite significant even with -40

GreeBo

DOCARCH wrote: »

I am well aware of solar gain (irrespective of temperature). However, at normal cruising height I suspect the interior of the aircraft generally could do with all the heat it can get! With an outside temperature of approx -50c I am sure the interior of the aircraft needs to be heated (rather than cooled).

On the ground is a totally different matter. On the same trip I also flew (with United) to Tampa (in Florida). No blind policy on that flight except that when we landed/taxied to the gate, just before the seat belt sign was turned off, everybody was asked to close their blinds before leaving the seat to help keep the aircraft cool for subsequent/boarding passengers. That policy is quite logical.

Nope, planes need to shed heat at normal crossing altitudes, hence why they have a/c.

The couple of hundred people will generate enough heat.

GreeBo

California Dreamer wrote: »

Will someone please think of the poor people!!!!!!!!

Bloody snowflakes!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

As opposed to the snowflakes who get upset because they want to look outside?

"Stop looking out my window!":rolleyes:

DOCARCH

smurfjed wrote: »

We routinely fly with the airconditioning in max cold and for anything less than 3 hours we can't cool the cabin. Solar heating is quite significant even with -40

Fair enough, however, as aircraft are designed with windows (and windows are nothing new) I would assume that the heating/cooling system is design to deal with that. In addition, as the blinds are inside the aircraft/inside the windows, having them open or closed is not going to make a significant difference.

jon1981

LionelNashe wrote: »

Some female journalist made the same argument a couple of weeks ago as part of an opinion piece on why she was going to continue to recline her seat. Anyone who has ever been on a plane, and who has long legs, understands the flaw in the argument. If my kneecaps are pressing into the hard plastic of your reclined seat, then reclining my seat doesn't change that at all. Reclining my seat changes the position of my head, my chest & my stomach - my arse, legs, and feet are still in the same position as before.

Using the argument put forward by many on here...buy a seat that suits your needs. (Disclosure, i don't recline my seat unless I've checked with the person behind me AND only during a night flight.)

Popoutman

United may have put themselves in a position where people on the non-sunward side of the aircraft can open their blinds at will given the responses the airline has given already. The open blind is then allowing the window to cool the cabin. Same principle of having open curtains at night, it'll cool the interior, where having the blind down prevents heat loss outwards when it's stated by the airline that this is the purpose of the request.

To be honest, I would happily refuse a cabin crew "request" to keep a blind down during cruise, whether daytime or night time. I'll pay for window seats to allow the view. I don't see any real engineering or safety purpose to that request.

It's not my problem if the airline can't spec their planes properly to allow heat management when in normal use.
Anyone that is bothered by the light can bring eyemasks for themselves.

Now, if the "blinds-down" was obviously and specifically listed as a portion of the terms and conditions then that's another story, and I would then be looking to book with an airline with a sane in-cabin policy.

Locker10a

Popoutman wrote: »

To be honest, I would happily refuse a cabin crew "request" to keep a blind down during cruise, whether daytime or night time. I'll pay for window seats to allow the view. I don't see any real engineering or safety purpose to that request.

Again from time to time people open their blind for what ever reason, we then get 50 people from that cabin section complaining and asking “can you ask them to close their blind”
“I can’t sleep/see my screen because of the sun”
Your refusal will to comply will just make you seem like as ass to the crew who are doing their job, enforcing their employers policy, and the other pax who’ll complain when yours is the sole open window blind

Under His Eye

Fly another airline that does not have such insane policies.

the_pen_turner

Under His Eye wrote: »

Fly another airline that does not have such insane policies.

yes but who would ever think that an airline would have such a stupid policy.
it would never cross your mind to ask .

Locker10a

Locker10a wrote: »

Again from time to time people open their blind for what ever reason, we then get 50 people from that cabin section complaining and asking “can you ask them to close their blind”
“I can’t sleep/see my screen because of the sun”
Your refusal will to comply will just make you seem like as ass to the crew who are doing their job, enforcing their employers policy, and the other pax who’ll complain when yours is the sole open window blind

Why should one person who wants to use the facility right beside them to look out be made a social outcast and demonised for doing so. It’s not like they are using an air horn ! Heavens above we will have people complaining because others are using the IFE at night and it’s keeping them awake next.

This is just another way in which flying is becoming more and more of a chore. We have those who don’t want the reclining seat function used, we have those who don’t want you to use the window to look out of !!! What next ?!

As I previously said I don’t mind if you recline, I don’t always recline but will choose a last row on long haul if I feel I will need to(check SeatGuru to see if it can be done). I don’t care if you leave your blind up or down, I will moderate my use depending on who’s around me and what’s outside to see. I do however mind other people thinking they can dictate what happens all around them. I also bring deodorant, a spare T-shirt and clean socks with me.

GreeBo

Deleted User wrote: »

Why should one person who wants to use the facility right beside them to look out be made a social outcast and demonised for doing so.

Are you talking about the person using the window or the person using the IFE?

Locker10a

Deleted User wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

Again from time to time people open their blind for what ever reason, we then get 50 people from that cabin section complaining and asking “can you ask them to close their blind”
“I can’t sleep/see my screen because of the sun”
Your refusal will to comply will just make you seem like as ass to the crew who are doing their job, enforcing their employers policy, and the other pax who’ll complain when yours is the sole open window blind

Why should one person who wants to use the facility right beside them to look out be made a social outcast and demonised for doing so. It’s not like they are using an air horn ! Heavens above we will have people complaining because others are using the IFE at night and it’s keeping them awake next.

This is just another way in which flying is becoming more and more of a chore. We have those who don’t want the reclining seat function used, we have those who don’t want you to use the window to look out of !!! What next ?!

As I previously said I don’t mind if you recline, I don’t always recline but will choose a last row on long haul if I feel I will need to(check SeatGuru to see if it can be done). I don’t care if you leave your blind up or down, I will moderate my use depending on who’s around me and what’s outside to see. I do however mind other people thinking they can dictate what happens all around them. I also bring deodorant, a spare T-shirt and clean socks with me.

Not saying I agree, just telling how it is !
On a personal level I wouldnt be naturally inclined to close the window blind, id usually opt for a window seat too when I fly short haul, but at the same time on long haul window views are very very boring 90% of the time so I’d rather just watch my movie etc if the majority of passengers are happy to have a dark cabin to rest or watch their entertainment then I’m not going to go against that either, it would be a bit selfish to do so but that’s me!

Locker10a

Locker10a wrote: »

Not saying I agree, just telling how it is !
On a personal level I wouldnt be naturally inclined to close the window blind, id usually opt for a window seat too when I fly short haul, but at the same time on long haul window views are very very boring 90% of the time so I’d rather just watch my movie etc if the majority of passengers are happy to have a dark cabin to rest or watch their entertainment then I’m not going to go against that either, it would be a bit selfish to do so but that’s me!

I agree with what you said (which many seem to miss in my other posts). I occasionally and only briefly lift the blind to look out. I certainly wouldn't like being called selfish if I only did that for 5 seconds every few hours. I just don't understand an airline policy of all down nearly all of the time or the blind nazis come barking at you.

Mebuntu

Locker10a wrote: »

Not saying I agree, just telling how it is !
On a personal level I wouldnt be naturally inclined to close the window blind, id usually opt for a window seat too when I fly short haul, but at the same time on long haul window views are very very boring 90% of the time so I’d rather just watch my movie etc if the majority of passengers are happy to have a dark cabin to rest or watch their entertainment then I’m not going to go against that either, it would be a bit selfish to do so but that’s me!

If another passenger beside me kindly asked would I mind pulling down the blind (for a good reason) I would do so with the proviso that I would most likely be sneaking a look out every now and then to see if anything is worth seeing or taking a photo of.

Funny, on the other hand, if CC came along and just ordered the blind closed I would almost certainly "challenge" it.

Having said that I can't even remember when I last sat in a window seat and certainly have never noticed any glare or whatever from anyone's window.

DOCARCH

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just don't understand an airline policy of all down nearly all of the time or the blind nazis come barking at you.

+1

My biggest bone of contention, and reason for starting to thread, was enforced 'blinds down' pulling back from the gate/prior to take off....this, IMHO, is ludicrous!

In addition, enforced 'blinds down' on a daytime flight, IMHO, is also not a great policy. For reasons of lessening the effects of jet lag, on an east to west trans Atlantic (day time) flight, I (personally) want to stay awake on the flight! If people want to rest/sleep, on a daytime flight, they should bring eye masks.

As mentioned at the outset, my own opinion/theory on this is its less to do with passenger comfort and more to do with lessoning the workload for cabin crew, as a darkened cabin is a more subdued/quieter place....i.e. less work/demands on cabin crew.

DOCARCH

DOCARCH wrote: »

+1

My biggest bone of contention, and reason for starting to thread, was enforced 'blinds down' pulling back from the gate/prior to take off....this, IMHO, is ludicrous!

In addition, enforced 'blinds down' on a daytime flight, IMHO, is also not a great policy. For reasons of lessening the effects of jet lag, on an east to west trans Atlantic (day time) flight, I (personally) want to stay awake on the flight! If people want to rest/sleep, on a daytime flight, they should bring eye masks.

As mentioned at the outset, my own opinion/theory on this is its less to do with passenger comfort and more to do with lessoning the workload for cabin crew, as a darkened cabin is a more subdued/quieter place....i.e. less work/demands on cabin crew.

I glad you did because from what I’ve been reading online over the last few months about United this has finally put the last nail in their coffin for me no matter how cheap they are.

Locker10a

DOCARCH wrote: »

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I just don't understand an airline policy of all down nearly all of the time or the blind nazis come barking at you.

+1

My biggest bone of contention, and reason for starting to thread, was enforced 'blinds down' pulling back from the gate/prior to take off....this, IMHO, is ludicrous!

In addition, enforced 'blinds down' on a daytime flight, IMHO, is also not a great policy. For reasons of lessening the effects of jet lag, on an east to west trans Atlantic (day time) flight, I (personally) want to stay awake on the flight! If people want to rest/sleep, on a daytime flight, they should bring eye masks.

As mentioned at the outset, my own opinion/theory on this is its less to do with passenger comfort and more to do with lessoning the workload for cabin crew, as a darkened cabin is a more subdued/quieter place....i.e. less work/demands on cabin crew.

I think the whole the cabin crew are just lazy thing is a bit unfair, it’s obviously not just a particular crew that came up with this on a flight ! It’s clearly a policy across a few airlines as many posters have explained here. The same amount of services have to be done on all flights regardless. Like it’s not cabin crew who under cater for night flights it’s the airlines as they anticipate people sleeping and save a few Penneies buy paying for a few less meals. Be angry with the airline not the frontline staff doing what they are told

billy few mates

LionelNashe wrote: »

Some female journalist made the same argument a couple of weeks ago as part of an opinion piece on why she was going to continue to recline her seat. Anyone who has ever been on a plane, and who has long legs, understands the flaw in the argument. If my kneecaps are pressing into the hard plastic of your reclined seat, then reclining my seat doesn't change that at all. Reclining my seat changes the position of my head, my chest & my stomach - my arse, legs, and feet are still in the same position as before.

It all comes down to personal choice really, I personally choose to fly with airlines that have reclining seats and once we're airborne I often choose to recline that seat.
If you're one of those people who would take that as some sort of an invasion on your personal space or an impediment to your own comfort then you have to make sure you also make the correct choices by choosing not to fly with airlines who provide this service to their guests or where this is unavoidable by choosing one of the many options available to purchase which will ensure your personal space remains unbreached.
Front row seats mean nobody can recline into your space and overwing exit seats provide additional leg room and comfort.
If for whatever reason you choose not to avail of any of these options then you can't really complain if you find yourself sitting behind someone like me who's specifically chosen that carrier because they offer the option to recline...

Mebuntu

Locker10a wrote: »

It’s clearly a policy across a few airlines as many posters have explained here.

Yes, but this airline policy may have come about due to pressure from CC in the first place.

I did a fair amount of TATL in the 90's and never once came across CC on any airline who insisted on blinds down so what has changed?

Mebuntu

billy few mates wrote: »

It all comes down to personal choice really, I personally choose to fly with airlines that have reclining seats and once we're airborne I often choose to recline that seat.
If you're one of those people who would take that as some sort of an invasion on your personal space or an impediment to your own comfort then you have to make sure you also make the correct choices by choosing not to fly with airlines who provide this service to their guests or where this is unavoidable by choosing one of the many options available to purchase which will ensure your personal space remains unbreached.
Front row seats mean nobody can recline into your space and overwing exit seats provide additional leg room and comfort.
If for whatever reason you choose not to avail of any of these options then you can't really complain if you find yourself sitting behind someone like me who's specifically chosen that carrier because they offer the option to recline...

That theory is fine but there are very few such choices available on any flight. It's not like half the seats are non-recline.

billy few mates

Mebuntu wrote: »

That theory is fine but there are very few such choices available on any flight. It's not like half the seats are non-recline.

Yes but I would suggest it's only a very small number of people on any flight that would get worked up about other people reclining. I'm 6'2" and it's never bothered me when people in front of me recline...
If it did bother me I'd make sure I had a front row or overwing exit seat.

Mebuntu

billy few mates wrote: »

Yes but I would suggest it's only a very small number of people on any flight that would get worked up about other people reclining.

I'm not so sure about that. I recently saw another discussion online somewhere and reclining seats was in the top two of people's air "rage" but, to be fair, this was on short haul flights.

Mebuntu

Mebuntu wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I recently saw another discussion online somewhere and reclining seats was in the top two of people's air "rage" but, to be fair, this was on short haul flights.

Like any poll it very much depends on who you get at the time and how many you actually ask.

Out of Dublin about 40% of the seats don’t have a reclining function available.

Mebuntu

Deleted User wrote: »

Out of Dublin about 40% of the seats don’t have a reclining function available.

That's interesting. Besides Ryanair who else doesn't have reclining passengers?

Mebuntu

Mebuntu wrote: »

That's interesting. Besides Ryanair who else doesn't have reclining passengers?

Just Ryanair

Locker10a

Mebuntu wrote: »

Locker10a wrote: »

It’s clearly a policy across a few airlines as many posters have explained here.

Yes, but this airline policy may have come about due to pressure from CC in the first place.

I did a fair amount of TATL in the 90's and never once came across CC on any airline who insisted on blinds down so what has changed?

The 90s was 20 years ago, not many people would have been regularly flying long haul back then, now it’s more common and people tend not to like it, it’s no longer novel like it used to be and so most people just want to sleep, I know friends who get a sleeping pill or similar prescribed for long haul flights as they can’t be arsed with the whole experience and just want to sleep through it.
Attitudes have changed, and with the internet and email and social media surveys and customer feedback are way more available to airlines so it’s entirely plausible that this is where the change has come from.
From the sounds of it, some airlines have gone to extremes with it, and I wouldn’t agree with that but certainly I see no big deal with it inflight, there’s not much to be achieved from having them open when you’re crossing oceans for hours anyway.

billy few mates

Mebuntu wrote: »

I'm not so sure about that. I recently saw another discussion online somewhere and reclining seats was in the top two of people's air "rage" but, to be fair, this was on short haul flights.

Well thank Goodness for choice, it's great that people who get that worked up about such a trivial matter can choose any number of airlines which don't offer reclining seats or front row seats where the problem doesn't arise.

Seat manufacturers offer both versions of seats, non reclining seats are cheaper because they have less moving parts, they're lighter and they cost less to maintain. From an economics point of view you might wonder why non reclining seats are not the industry standard, the answer is simple, it's because passengers demand them and are prepared to pay a premium for them.

That said, I fully understand why some people would rather save a few bob and forgo the relative comfort of a Reclining seat by travelling on one of the low cost carriers that don't offer them but they should be mindful of other people's choices when they find themselves on an aircraft that offers the feature...

Mebuntu

billy few mates wrote: »

Well thank Goodness for choice, it's great that people who get that worked up about such a trivial matter can choose any number of airlines which don't offer reclining seats or front row seats where the problem doesn't arise.

1. It's not a trivial matter at all to those it affects.

2. As we have just heard there is only Ryanair out of Dublin who don't recline.

H3llR4iser

I call shenanigans on the "airline policy" side - I was on the exact same UA flight, DUB - EWR in March and, while I noticed the weird thing about most of the blinds being down when I boarded the plane (a 777-200), everyone flipped them up and the crew said exactly nothing for the entirety of the flight.

On the trip back, from Dulles, on a 757-200 (note - single aisle on a transatlantic flight isn't a great idea, but I digress) it was exactly the same - no "blinds down nazis". It was a "red-eye" flight as the Americans call them, and the sight of the sunrise was as we flew towards it was quite something.

Especially the whole taking off / landing with the blinds down sounds idiotic to me, there is generally a policy of blinds UP in these phases for safety and awareness reasons, as some of the CC / former CC posting in here explained.

I have one wacky theory - could the crew's attitude to blinds depend on children on board, infants specifically, who may be more likely to fall asleep and not scream for the duration of the flight in darkness? Just saying as both my flights were notable for the absence of small children.

As someone who just doesn't fall asleep no matter how tired I may be, on planes/cars/buses/trains, the idea of sitting 7-8 hours in a dark cabin in the middle of the day ain't exactly appealing...