Waterford developments

DLS_75

Gardner wrote: »

message didn't deliver his phone has been cut off

That went over my head 😂

fricatus

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Am I missing something here? Are the buildings which the Tower Hotel wanted to knock not a row of listed Georgian buildings, the type we've regretted knocking elsewhere in Waterford(where the old ESB block/ Waterford Crystal Visitors Centre is now) and elsewhere like Dublin?
Didn't the Granville Hotel manage to expand by incorporating listed buildings on the Quay rather than trying to knock them and rebuilding?
What am I missing here?

Don’t think you’re missing anything. This would be a fine development if located nearly anywhere else but the Mall has some fine Georgian buildings and they should be retained.

The building they applied for would be fine further out by the park or by the Manor, but not at the Mall/Lombard St.

Good decision IMO.

Gardner

DLS_75 wrote: »

That went over my head 😂

you will be pleased to know he is back online

Dunmoreroader

fricatus wrote: »

Don’t think you’re missing anything. This would be a fine development if located nearly anywhere else but the Mall has some fine Georgian buildings and they should be retained.

The building they applied for would be fine further out by the park or by the Manor, but not at the Mall/Lombard St.

Good decision IMO.

That's what I thought. I wish the Tower Hotel well and was delighted by their redevelopment up to now but this next phase which has just been knocked always appeared wrong-headed to me. Did they not consult the city planners beforehand who surely would have told them "forget knocking listed buildings" actually they shouldn't have needed to be told.
So why were there not more objections? Why didn't the local press raise concerns at the possible loss of our scarce built heritage? Where was An Taisce??
I've no skin in the game and I don't know or have any connection to Ms Leech so I don't know if her motives were anything other than civic-mindedness, but it seems to me that she has done the city & its citizens a service.

curmudgeonly

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

That's what I thought. I wish the Tower Hotel well and was delighted by their redevelopment up to now but this next phase which has just been knocked always appeared wrong-headed to me. Did they not consult the city planners beforehand who surely would have told them "forget knocking listed buildings" actually they shouldn't have needed to be told.
So why were there not more objections? Why didn't the local press raise concerns at the possible loss of our scarce built heritage? Where was An Taisce??
I've no skin in the game and I don't know or have any connection to Ms Leech so I don't know if her motives were anything other than civic-mindedness, but it seems to me that she has done the city & its citizens a service.

On the Tower hotel, a large bugbear of mine for many years has been their complete lack of any exterior Christmas decorations, like none.
As one of the biggest beneficiaries of both Winterval and the Christmas party business one would wonder about their corporate responsibilities?

Is this bull headed decision more of the same? take take take

Dexpat

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

That's what I thought. I wish the Tower Hotel well and was delighted by their redevelopment up to now but this next phase which has just been knocked always appeared wrong-headed to me. Did they not consult the city planners beforehand who surely would have told them "forget knocking listed buildings" actually they shouldn't have needed to be told.
So why were there not more objections? Why didn't the local press raise concerns at the possible loss of our scarce built heritage? Where was An Taisce??
I've no skin in the game and I don't know or have any connection to Ms Leech so I don't know if her motives were anything other than civic-mindedness, but it seems to me that she has done the city & its citizens a service.

It's initially disappointing that such a large expansion has been knocked back. Waterford needs more high quality hotel rooms and a decent conference centre in the city centre if it's to expand its appeal.

I suppose there weren't too many objections as people realise that we are lacking in that regard and don't want to be labled as a serial objector. Nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws though. I'm not too familiar with the details but development for development sake is never a good idea.

After the refusal, hopefully they will now be encouraged to revisit it and come up with something more sensitive without a big loss to the expansion in facilities.

Max Powers

curmudgeonly wrote: »

On the Tower hotel, a large bugbear of mine for many years has been their complete lack of any exterior Christmas decorations, like none.
As one of the biggest beneficiaries of both Winterval and the Christmas party business one would wonder about their corporate responsibilities?

Is this bull headed decision more of the same? take take take

Re. Corporate responsibilities...Pretty sure, they are one of the major sponsors of winterval.

Harry Palmr

razorronan wrote: »

https://waterfordnow.ie/business/new-e140m-glanbia-plant-at-port-of-waterford-to-create-180-jobs/

and the objectors have decided to throw a spanner in the works. Too much farting about for the green lobby

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/glanbia-cheese-plant-put-on-hold-due-to-objections-over-dairy-herd-emissions-1.4121481

In its appeal the Friends of the Irish Environment claimed the project was being made possible by the Government-supported Foodwise 2025 strategy which aimed to increase the production and export of dairy goods.

However, it said the intensification of the Irish dairy sector was having multiple adverse impacts in terms of greenhouse gas emissions, the deterioration of water quality and ammonia levels.

Friends of the Irish Environment director Tony Lowes said such a level of impacts had not been foreseen by Foodwise 2025 so that corrective action was now required, including the destocking of Ireland’s bovine herd.
He claimed an environmental impact assessment submitted by JHOK did not contain sufficient information about the impact of the increase in milk production required for the plant.

BBM77

Harry Palmr wrote: »

and the objectors have decided to throw a spanner in the works. Too much farting about for the green lobby

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/agribusiness-and-food/glanbia-cheese-plant-put-on-hold-due-to-objections-over-dairy-herd-emissions-1.4121481

I'm sure the farmers lobby will get their say in as always.

Yellow_Fern

Dexpat wrote: »

It's initially disappointing that such a large expansion has been knocked back. Waterford needs more high quality hotel rooms and a decent conference centre in the city centre if it's to expand its appeal.

I suppose there weren't too many objections as people realise that we are lacking in that regard and don't want to be labled as a serial objector. Nothing wrong with pointing out the flaws though. I'm not too familiar with the details but development for development sake is never a good idea.

After the refusal, hopefully they will now be encouraged to revisit it and come up with something more sensitive without a big loss to the expansion in facilities.

The expansion of the hotel involved building over an entire street (now totally invisible at street level) and other developments turned an entire block behind into a carpark. Why not use that. These houses are probably fine for high quality hotel rooms. If they were demolished the hotel would have more space but not a huge amount and totally inadequate for a conference centre. Period housing is a diminishing resource and there really is not so much of it left.

Muttley79

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158634489274453&id=254899924452
This is very much needed for our hospital in Waterford

Gardner

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158634489274453&id=254899924452
This is very much needed for our hospital in Waterford

ssssshhhh you're not allowed share good news stories on Boards.ie.

Max Powers

Muttley79 wrote: »

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158634489274453&id=254899924452
This is very much needed for our hospital in Waterford

Good to see alright, did I hear they opened a few beds in the dunmore wing? Certainly a few lights on there too

debok

Max Powers wrote: »

Good to see alright, did I hear they opened a few beds in the dunmore wing? Certainly a few lights on there too

Don't think it means any additional beds have been added to the capacity. Just one of the medical wards moved out while changes been made in old building

JohnC.

Barronstrand branch of Mulligans applied for some significant alterations and expansion into the upper floors.

https://www.waterfordlive.ie/news/home/506467/popular-waterford-city-centre-store-planning-revamp.html

Muttley79

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/danish-retailer-jysk-to-create-70-jobs-with-seven-new-irish-stores-1.4131701 hopefully this brings more jobs and investment of retailers to Waterford.opening the 27th of feb.

Yellow_Fern

JohnC. wrote: »

Barronstrand branch of Mulligans applied for some significant alterations and expansion into the upper floors.

https://www.waterfordlive.ie/news/home/506467/popular-waterford-city-centre-store-planning-revamp.html

The facades on that street have been so ruined over the decades. I hope they can expand with as little structural alteration as possible.

dzilla

I noticed walking from The back of phillys car park and the gas works car park recently that the foot paths connecting here to Sinnots / The woodman area are in really bad condition. Would be nice if these got a facelift cos its a main artery now to the parking parts of town

hardybuck

dzilla wrote: »

I noticed walking from The back of phillys car park and the gas works car park recently that the foot paths connecting here to Sinnots / The woodman area are in really bad condition. Would be nice if these got a facelift cos its a main artery now to the parking parts of town

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some residential property going into the Gas Works site?

It would give a big lift to that part of the city, is across the road from the park and in walking distance to the city center.

I notice that the Land Development Agency recently announced a big development in land around Limerick's city bus depot. This is the type of stuff Waterford needs more than housing out in Knockboy et al.

Harry Palmr

I've posted about this previously, someone suggested that the gas works pollution legacy might be a reason not to build accommodation on the site.

azimuth17

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've posted about this previously, someone suggested that the gas works pollution legacy might be a reason not to build accommodation on the site.

All toxic material 30,000 tons or more from the gas works site was excavated at enormous expense and exported to Holland for incineration. The site is now sterile and suitable for any use.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

I've posted about this previously, someone suggested that the gas works pollution legacy might be a reason not to build accommodation on the site.

Perhaps but they seemed to have done lots of work to clean it up.

I'm not expert but if you can put offices or retail onto the land surely you can put housing in too?

Waterford Crystal land also badly polluted, and the DLS school playing pitches are apparently on an old dump.

azimuth17

hardybuck wrote: »

Perhaps but they seemed to have done lots of work to clean it up.

I'm not expert but if you can put offices or retail onto the land surely you can put housing in too?

Waterford Crystal land also badly polluted, and the DLS school playing pitches are apparently on an old dump.

Noel Frisby construction have said that EPA has given clearance to Glass Factory site hence his application for planning to rejig the offices.

iseegirls

hardybuck wrote: »

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some residential property going into the Gas Works site?

It would give a big lift to that part of the city, is across the road from the park and in walking distance to the city center.

I rather the car park remains - nice distance from town and relatively cheap. Wouldnt want to see another monstrosity like what's there in Railway Square, with units empty since it was constructed and footpath surrounding it in awful condition. Albeit, Railway square wasn't much use or in great condition before it that complex was built, but Gasworks is a good car park for now.

curmudgeonly

dzilla wrote: »

I noticed walking from The back of phillys car park and the gas works car park recently that the foot paths connecting here to Sinnots / The woodman area are in really bad condition. Would be nice if these got a facelift cos its a main artery now to the parking parts of town

WCC had plans before the bust to sell this off as a large retail site with an UG carpark as a provisio but the bust put paid to those. It is a fine site but will not reach its potential till Waterford Inc is booming again?

hardybuck

iseegirls wrote: »

I rather the car park remains - nice distance from town and relatively cheap. Wouldnt want to see another monstrosity like what's there in Railway Square, with units empty since it was constructed and footpath surrounding it in awful condition. Albeit, Railway square wasn't much use or in great condition before it that complex was built, but Gasworks is a good car park for now.

In the long term we need to get people out of their cars and using public transport to the city center, or parking in park and ride facilities somewhere on the outskirts of the city.

Would agree that Railway Square isn't the nicest development, but the city center needs far more residential development. At the moment you have an exodus after 5 in the evening which turns it into a ghost town. Look at the bewildered faces of tourists if you're ever down there after 6.

This site is surrounded by facilities like the park, but also primary and secondary schools - ironically the pupils of which are driven in from the suburbs.

gscully

hardybuck wrote: »

Wouldn't it be amazing to see some residential property going into the Gas Works site?

I'd rather see it turned into a multi-storey car park and the Quay freed up to realise its potential.

hardybuck

gscully wrote: »

I'd rather see it turned into a multi-storey car park and the Quay freed up to realise its potential.

What would, or could, you put on the quay instead?

BBM77

hardybuck wrote: »

What would, or could, you put on the quay instead?

A linear park like most cities with water fronts have.

hardybuck

BBM77 wrote: »

A linear park like most cities with water fronts have.

I've seen similar in Bordeaux but I don't recall too many other cities that had one along their quays in such a prominent location right in the middle of their city centres.

They had terribly run down dock area and don't have parks, but do have open promenade with planting.

Johnboy1951

BBM77 wrote: »

A linear park like most cities with water fronts have.

A complimentary layout to the north quay development?

mooseknunkle

hardybuck wrote: »

What would, or could, you put on the quay instead?

Anything other than bleak soulless car parks

hardybuck

mooseknunkle wrote: »

Anything other than bleak soulless car parks

Yes but the question remains - what?

Visitors to the city need to have a way into it. You don't want them driving further into the city as one poster suggested. I would favour a park and ride in Ferrybank and/or Sallypark as alternatives.

MoashoaM

If they put a multi-story carpark in the gas works it'd break my heart. The waterside and gasworks could be a such a nice area.

Neglecting to develop water-side property for the public enjoyment is typical in this country. That whole river should be a priority for the city to develop by. The Dutch do it right.

The city could use less car focused American-British development.

Harry Palmr

The quays need to become part of the greenway.

It won't ever happen but the traffic lanes should be moved to the riverside and inner south quays freed up for walking, pop up shopping, cafeing, lounging about, playing and so on.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The quays need to become part of the greenway.

It won't ever happen but the traffic lanes should be moved to the riverside and inner south quays freed up for walking, pop up shopping, cafeing, lounging about, playing and so on.

I like this idea - except for the moving of the traffic lanes. Too disruptive and costly, and also might result in road closures due to flooding.

Would be nice to have a more relaxed feel along the shops though.

johnnykilo

hardybuck wrote: »

I've seen similar in Bordeaux but I don't recall too many other cities that had one along their quays in such a prominent location right in the middle of their city centres.

They had terribly run down dock area and don't have parks, but do have open promenade with planting.

There's a big park in Athlone right by the river just a couple of minutes from the town centre. Lovely place to be on a sunny day watching the boats go down the Shannon. OK it's not a city but it's a relatively big town in relation to Ireland.

hardybuck

johnnykilo wrote: »

There's a big park in Athlone right by the river just a couple of minutes from the town centre. Lovely place to be on a sunny day watching the boats go down the Shannon. OK it's not a city but it's a relatively big town in relation to Ireland.

Is that the equivalent of having a park up along the river in a couple of mins away from the city center in Bilberry or Waterpark?

Harry Palmr

hardybuck wrote: »

I like this idea - except for the moving of the traffic lanes. Too disruptive and costly, and also might result in road closures due to flooding.

Would be nice to have a more relaxed feel along the shops though.

Do the car parks flood more than the driving lanes as things are?

I agree it would be disruptive I just like the idea of people filtering out from the Broadstreet/Barronstrand straight into this pedestrian area.

johnnykilo

hardybuck wrote: »

Is that the equivalent of having a park up along the river in a couple of mins away from the city center in Bilberry or Waterpark?

Not really, it's riverside, 300m from the main bridge in Athlone which is the dead centre of the town. You can see it from the bridge and vice versa so it feels pretty central. It doesn't run the whole length of the river but would be equivalent to having a park on part of either the north or south quays in Waterford.

hardybuck

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Do the car parks flood more than the driving lanes as things are?

I agree it would be disruptive I just like the idea of people filtering out from the Broadstreet/Barronstrand straight into this pedestrian area.

Well the car parks are next the river. The road is currently a good few meters away from the river - separated by the car parks.

I'm not sure how good or bad the flood defenses are these days but if you move a road into a potential flood plain there would be a lot of egg on a lot of faces.

A Greenway cycle path along the river bank, nicely landscaped, could be really attractive.

Dexpat

Harry Palmr wrote: »

The quays need to become part of the greenway.

It won't ever happen but the traffic lanes should be moved to the riverside and inner south quays freed up for walking, pop up shopping, cafeing, lounging about, playing and so on.

Isn't funding already committed to extend the greenway past Bilberry up as far as the new bridge at the clock tower and to viking triangle?

I know in practice it won't involve too much but it it might involve a proper separated path along the river for pedestrians and bikes.

The long-term future of the Quay is to be a linear park as you outlined with very little traffic. It's probably more than 20 years away though.

Harry Palmr

Yes, 2.6m https://www.voicemedia.ie/waterford-today/e2-65m-will-link-greenway-to-the-city-centre/

mooseknunkle

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Yes, 2.6m https://www.voicemedia.ie/waterford-today/e2-65m-will-link-greenway-to-the-city-centre/

They really need to get a start on that and not have all the tourists cycling up through Bilberry again this summer

Max Powers

mooseknunkle wrote: »

They really need to get a start on that and not have all the tourists cycling up through Bilberry again this summer

There was a few of those announcements last year like that, city bike scheme, etc. You'd have to wonder did the council ever get the money to do it? Personally I doubt they have the money. Shane Ross announced it, I can remember Halligan talking like this is going to start any day now.....

Azatadine

mooseknunkle wrote: »

They really need to get a start on that and not have all the tourists cycling up through Bilberry again this summer

Yeah, what a horrible experience for a tourist. That section from the bridge to the Bilberry Greenway entrance is an absolute disgrace.

mooseknunkle

Azatadine wrote: »

Yeah, what a horrible experience for a tourist. That section from the quay to the Bilberry Greenway entrance is an absolute disgrace.

Even if they just done the section from the bridge to the bilberry car park it would be something ,totally agree with you its a disgrace having people going up there the way it is now

mooseknunkle

Max Powers wrote: »

There was a few of those announcements last year like that, city bike scheme, etc. You'd have to wonder did the council ever get the money to do it? Personally I doubt they have the money. Shane Ross announced it, I can remember Halligan talking like this is going to start any day now.....

€2.6m announced last June and not a word about it since

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1ed5ec-minister-ross-and-griffin-announce-the-launch-of-bike-week-2019-alon/

hardybuck

mooseknunkle wrote: »

€2.6m announced last June and not a word about it since

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/1ed5ec-minister-ross-and-griffin-announce-the-launch-of-bike-week-2019-alon/

Does the work need planning permission? If it does, even the potential procurement process would take a number of months.

gscully

hardybuck wrote: »

What would, or could, you put on the quay instead?

Cafes, markets, etc... The potential of the quay is not just the quay itself. We don't make enough use of the river - i.e. spectator sports, participant activities like in Dunmore, boating, etc...