Drought....Hosepipe Ban.... next they'll be calling for Water meters

GreeBo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You don't remember the flood warnings only 5 or 6 weeks ago? Storm Emma and the beast form the East was what 4 or 5 months ago? Remember all that stuff on the telly, hoping it would thaw slowly so we wouldn't all drown under the vast quantity of melt water!

I don't know what the actual figures are for the year - but I'd hazard a guess they aren't too much down on average. It's been a few weeks of nice weather. The rain will be back soon enough. It's hardly the Sahara now is it!

You dont think we are down on average??
Seriously? It hasnt rained in any significant way in Dublin for over 7 weeks.
"A few weeks of nice weather"?
We've had near record temperatures for weeks....are you comparing us to Spain again?

Thats BallyBunion golf course....you tell me.

GreeBo

beveragelady wrote: »

But I can use all the road I want! It's not like I'm paying for other people to access a service that I can't access myself...

The well analogy is nonsense. I pay for the well. My tax contributions don't go towards my water supply, they go towards other people's. I pay for my water supply on top of paying for other people's. They don't contribute towards mine at all. There is no way you can pretend that is fair.

Good lord, I'll try again.

You pay for your own road usage on top of other peoples.
Its no different than water.
If you only want to pay for things you use yourself I suggest you leave society.

GreeBo

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Surely in this day and age there is a better solution than treating every drop of water and then pumping it to a manky tank in the attic so it can be used for showers and flushing toilets!

This is a wet country - droughts are not an existential threat, it could be decades before we see a run of weather like this again. The problem is not lack of rain it's lack of processing capacity and the seemingly accepted fact that half of everything we do process, we basically just spill on the ground.

It is pointless telling people to conserve water, while simultaneously wasting half your water. I watered some of the plants out my back last night, just the ones that looked thirsty - I used a watering can and kept track of how much I used - 180L.

I could let them die and save enough water to keep the leaks going for roughly another 1/16th of 1 second - now wouldn't that just make all the difference. If I do that every second day for the month I've basically used 1 seconds worth of the water that's pissed away to god knows where.

Maybe worry about fixing that first and how people brush their teeth second!

If you were the only person drawing water then that would be fine, but multiply your 1s by all the people consuming water during this historic dry period and you get where we are now.

I totally agree that we should be separating grey water from black water, but if you think the bill for fixing the leaks is going to be expensive, what do you reckon it will cost to re plump every house in the country AND double the number of water pipes?

beveragelady

GreeBo wrote: »

Good lord, I'll try again.

You pay for your own road usage on top of other peoples.
Its no different than water.
If you only want to pay for things you use yourself I suggest you leave society.

And I will try one last time too.

I use the road so I'm required to pay for it.
I don't use public water, yet I pay for it as well as my own water.
I pay for what I use, and more. It seems to me that it is glaringly obvious that requiring everybody to pay for ONLY the water they use would be a good thing.

My taxes pay for the education of children who aren't mine, but that's fine because it benefits the society of which I am part. I pay for for social workers to help people I've never met, because it benefits society. How on earth does it benefit anybody if a measurable, expensive commodity is provided for free to some at the expense of others? It's not just the poor or the disadvantaged who can leave their taps running while I pay for their water and my own, it's those in mansions and stylish townhouses too you know.

nthclare

GreeBo wrote: »

You dont think we are down on average??
Seriously? It hasnt rained in any significant way in Dublin for over 7 weeks.
"A few weeks of nice weather"?
We've had near record temperatures for weeks....are you comparing us to Spain again?

Thats BallyBunion golf course....you tell me.

Lahinch golf course looks like a desert too

Roger Hassenforder

beveragelady wrote: »

The well analogy is nonsense. I pay for the well. My tax contributions don't go towards my water supply, they go towards other people's. I pay for my water supply on top of paying for other people's. They don't contribute towards mine at all. There is no way you can pretend that is fair.

ever gotten a grant beverage lady?

Hitman3000

Roger Hassenforder wrote:

ever gotten a grant beverage lady?

You mean the grant that is avaible to well owners and group schemes?

beveragelady

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

ever gotten a grant beverage lady?

Nope. Now that I think of it, I've never even been given a lousy grant.

my3cents

beveragelady wrote: »

Nope. Now that I think of it, I've never even been given a lousy grant.

https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/private-wells

A grant of up to 75% of the cost, subject to a maximum grant of €2,031.58, is available, subject to certain conditions.

beveragelady

Rules for grants for wells...
https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/private-wells
Only one grant per house will be allowed in any seven year period
The proposed work must cost more than €635

Doesn't have anything to do with the daily costs of running a well...
Electricity and wear and tear on pump.
UV and other purification.
Softening
Storing
Well-cleaning, if needed.

Hitman3000

beveragelady wrote:

Rules for grants for wells...

But there is a grant paid for by other taxpayers who will not benefit from your well.....or the well of another who receives this grant.

my3cents

beveragelady wrote: »

Rules for grants for wells...
https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/private-wells
Only one grant per house will be allowed in any seven year period
The proposed work must cost more than €635

Doesn't have anything to do with the daily costs of running a well...
Electricity and wear and tear on pump.
UV and other purification.
Softening
Storing
Well-cleaning, if needed.

Softening and storing are your problem but the grant does cover UV and other purification if your water quality is poor.

the_pen_turner

my3cents wrote: »

https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/private-wells

how many houses are there that are older than 7 years and not conected to main and have no mains anywhere near them.

very few i would guess

shootermacg

I buy all my drinking water from the shops. I would barely use the Dublin piss for washing.

my3cents

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how many houses are there that are older than 7 years and not conected to main and have no mains anywhere near them.

very few i would guess

So if you need to replace your pump, switch gear and improve your water quality on an existing well then you can easily get the bill to over €635.

sbsquarepants

GreeBo wrote: »

You dont think we are down on average??
Seriously? It hasnt rained in any significant way in Dublin for over 7 weeks.
"A few weeks of nice weather"?.

I'd say we're down alright - I just don't know by how much (Do you know?)
I suspect not by that huge an amount and I'm absolutely sure that we'll catch back up again in the very near future.
It's just a few weeks of nice weather. We haven't turned into Qatar.

GreeBo wrote: »

We've had near record temperatures for weeks....are you comparing us to Spain again?.

I think you have me mixed up with someone else.

the_pen_turner

my3cents wrote: »

So if you need to replace your pump, switch gear and improve your water quality on an existing well then you can easily get the bill to over €635.

thats great but the mains passes most homes in the country. it would only be the very remote that would even qualify.

Roger Hassenforder

beveragelady wrote: »

Nope. Now that I think of it, I've never even been given a lousy grant.

hmmmm

whats your LPT rate?


I suppose there's no point asking whether you have you agricultural land, with nice road frontage, funded by the tax payer?

those roads you use to access your rural house?
is your tax contribution proportional to the length of road and the cost of it maintenance?

Roger Hassenforder

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats great but the mains passes most homes in the country. it would only be the very remote that would even qualify.

11% of the population are on wells

the_pen_turner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

11% of the population are on wells

thats not relivent to that grant.
you must not have access to mains near by. that would rule out a lot of that 11%.
it rules me and everyone i can think of with a well out

my3cents

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats not relivent to that grant.
you must not have access to mains near by. that would rule out a lot of that 11%.
it rules me and everyone i can think of with a well out

Then why don't they get connect to the mains supply if its so expensive to have your own well?

No one I know with a well has any choice in the matter except a neighbor who put one in so he didn't have to pay water bills LOL

BarryD2

beveragelady wrote: »

It's complete nonsense to suggest that there are (or were) rules against harvesting rainwater, or gathering your own water in any other way. In fact on the website they encourage rainwater harvesting to water gardens.
This is exactly the sort of stupid argument dim people made, and very dim people got worked up about, when there were protests against paying for water.

They were the blind leading the gullible.

GreeBo

beveragelady wrote: »

My taxes pay for the education of children who aren't mine, but that's fine because it benefits the society of which I am part. I pay for for social workers to help people I've never met, because it benefits society. How on earth does it benefit anybody if a measurable, expensive commodity is provided for free to some at the expense of others? It's not just the poor or the disadvantaged who can leave their taps running while I pay for their water and my own, it's those in mansions and stylish townhouses too you know.

You don't see how providing water for people who need to use public water is good for society?

BTW, its not provided for free to anyone.

BarryD2

my3cents wrote: »

https://www.housing.gov.ie/water/water-services/rural-water-programme/private-wells

FYI, we got a new well bored and pump installed last year as previous wells were failing. Total cost c €7,500 plus a good bit of work. Grant €2031. That leaves us paying €5,000+ and running costs etc. That amounts to more than 30 YEARS of your miserably low average €150 annual public water bills.

Put this on top of significant previous (ungranted) expenditure on wells, pumps and water treatment.

People who live on public water supplies have little concept of how lucky they are and it'll only hit home when the taps dry up. Then the sh*t will hit the fan.

the_pen_turner wrote: »

how many houses are there that are older than 7 years and not conected to main and have no mains anywhere near them.

very few i would guess

That is a real urban viewpoint. A great many dwellings are located far from public water & sewage systems.

BarryD2

GreeBo wrote: »

You don't see how providing water for people who need to use public water is good for society?

BTW, its not provided for free to anyone.

You might as well argue that FREE Sky Sports, FREE internet, FREE electricity, FREE heating oil etc etc is all good for society.

Of course, they'd be great and wouldn't we all like to use these to our hearts content.. but that ain't the way that society runs.

Roger Hassenforder

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats not relivent to that grant.
you must not have access to mains near by. that would rule out a lot of that 11%.
it rules me and everyone i can think of with a well out

Eh no.
Nice attempted recovery though

Wayer mains dont pass all but the " most remote" places. A lot of Ireland isnt on mains water, even less on mains sewer.

K.Flyer

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Eh no.
Nice attempted recovery though

Wayer mains dont pass all but the " most remote" places. A lot of Ireland isnt on mains water, even less on mains sewer.

You would be surprised how many houses surrounding Dublin who are actually stuck on wells, and you would be forgiven for thinking that they are on mains given their proximity to Dublin.
My brother is on a well and would happily pay to get connected to the mains, but the computer says no!
Its a bit like broadband etc, two telegraph poles away are fine, but after that its smoke signals.

Hitman3000

K.Flyer wrote:

You would be surprised how many houses surrounding Dublin who are actually stuck on wells, and you would be forgiven for thinking that they are on mains given their proximity to Dublin. My brother is on a well and would happily pay to get connected to the mains, but the computer says no! Its a bit like broadband etc, two telegraph poles away are fine, but after that its smoke signals.

Did he find out the water supply was a well before or after he bought the house?

Elmer Blooker

Hector Bellend wrote: »

Yeah. It's about time we grew up and paid for our water.

Pay who? Some big North American conglomerate? I'm convinced Irish Water was set up to be privatised. I would have no problem paying for the water I use if my money stayed in the country to fix leaking pipes but would it? :pac:

BarryD2

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Pay who? Some big North American conglomerate? I'm convinced Irish Water was set up to be privatised. I would have no problem paying for the water I use if my money stayed in the country to fix leaking pipes but would it? :pac:

That's an easy out. It all comes down to who you want believe. Is it the various political parties that have been running the state since it's foundation or those who are seeking to raise their profile and happy to run any agenda, mislead the public etc., in their pursuit of votes??

The idea that the water of Ireland and the impossibility of defining that, is to be sold off to some USA multi national is just baloney.

K.Flyer

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Did he find out the water supply was a well before or after he bought the house?

He knew it was on a well beforehand and that it also had a septic tank. Given his occupation they were the first things he checked.

Elmer Blooker

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's an easy out. It all comes down to who you want believe. Is it the various political parties that have been running the state since it's foundation or those who are seeking to raise their profile and happy to run any agenda, mislead the public etc., in their pursuit of votes??

The idea that the water of Ireland and the impossibility of defining that, is to be sold off to some USA multi national is just baloney.

Not baloney actually. I would like to see Irish Water privatization a issue in the next General Election whenever that may be.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/privatisation-of-irish-water-possible-dail-hears-429879.html

Hitman3000

K.Flyer wrote:

He knew it was on a well beforehand and that it also had a septic tank. Given his occupation they were the first things he checked.

So he made a choice to buy a property without mains water or sewer. What's the issue?

the_pen_turner

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Eh no.
Nice attempted recovery though

Wayer mains dont pass all but the " most remote" places. A lot of Ireland isnt on mains water, even less on mains sewer.

Where I am in Tipperary , most people around me could get mains if they wanted to.
Of the 15 I know who have wells near me , 5 are farmers so slightly different .the other 10 including myself have the option of mains outside the gate.

Up in the hills is different I'm sure with more black spots, but I have been in some very remote areas up around upper church ,gortnahoo ,etc that have all had mains.

Almost no-one in the countryside has public sewers

K.Flyer

Hitman3000 wrote: »

So he made a choice to buy a property without mains water or sewer. What's the issue?

Who said there was an issue?

The J Stands for Jay

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You don't remember the flood warnings only 5 or 6 weeks ago? Storm Emma and the beast form the East was what 4 or 5 months ago? Remember all that stuff on the telly, hoping it would thaw slowly so we wouldn't all drown under the vast quantity of melt water!

I don't know what the actual figures are for the year - but I'd hazard a guess they aren't too much down on average. It's been a few weeks of nice weather. The rain will be back soon enough. It's hardly the Sahara now is it!

I've just been looking at the data for Dublin airport (too lazy to look anywhere else). Year to date, the rainfall is 107.3mm behind average.

James Brown

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap. Never litter, despite no litter f***ing meter on me. It's just common sense even before the environment was such a political tennis ball.

We need money spent on the infrastructure. The rush to metering was a clue of something not being right. If the mains were in such a bad way, (and they are), why the urgency in setting up Dinny and company with a metering contract and a quango, to set up a billing system which wasn't fit for purpose or going to bring in the money needed anytime soon? Privatisation down the road.

Just to note, despite all the PR and spin it was the general public calling 'enough' did away with the con job.

BarryD2

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

Not baloney actually. I would like to see Irish Water privatization a issue in the next General Election whenever that may be.

Yawn, you obviously have a foot well in the anti water charges camp if you're interested in privatisation of water as GE issue The majority of public water users wouldn't give a toss, as long as the water keeps running and preferably they don't have to be bothered about how much they use and who wants to pay service charges anyway, when some will promise free?

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap.

Nor should anyone but when there are no consequences for inappropriate usage... lots of people will just use as much as they want. It's their entitlement.

Wheeliebin30

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Never needed a penalty hanging over my head to stop running a tap. Never litter, despite no litter f***ing meter on me. It's just common sense even before the environment was such a political tennis ball.

We need money spent on the infrastructure. The rush to metering was a clue of something not being right. If the mains were in such a bad way, (and they are), why the urgency in setting up Dinny and company with a metering contract and a quango, to set up a billing system which wasn't fit for purpose or going to bring in the money needed anytime soon? Privatisation down the road.

Just to note, despite all the PR and spin it was the general public calling 'enough' did away with the con job.

Have you any figures to back up your claim the “general public” called enough???

Mister Vain

[URL="[img]https://i.imgur.com/DwwYIV5.jpg[/img]"][/URL]

gandalf

If only they spent all that money wasted on the water meters on repairing and upgrading the pipes that were leaking the most.

Wheeliebin30

gandalf wrote: »

If only they spent all that money wasted on the water meters on repairing and upgrading the pipes that were leaking the most.

And then you would pay for water?

Yeahhhhh right.

Sooof.

gandalf

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

And then you would pay for water?

Yeahhhhh right.

Sooof.

Yep I do believe water charges will come in at some stage. The two mistakes made was not to address the biggest leaks first and to try to introduce the charges at the height of the recession.

whisky_galore

Saw someone washing their caravan at a garage (yes you've guessed who the owners were! They're entitled to it...)

Shouldn't the garages have their token operated washers shut down as well for the duration?

sbsquarepants

McGaggs wrote: »

I've just been looking at the data for Dublin airport (too lazy to look anywhere else). Year to date, the rainfall is 107.3mm behind average.

Thanks McGaggs.

Averaged over how long? Where are you getting those numbers from?

I couldn't find any up to date figures - anything I could find only went as far as May. Not missing much - except the 1 bone dry month dry month so obviously that could skew the picture considerably!

For what it's worth, this is total rainfall @ Dublin airport for the months Jan to May for the past 5 years.

2018 - 294.1mm
2017 - 183.9mm (inc. june 270.3mm)
2016 - 349.4mm (inc. june 408mm)
2015 - 273.9mm (inc. june 288mm)
2014 - 368.5mm (inc. june 404.7mm)

There was no crisis in 2017 or 2015 that I can recall and even with no rain whatsoever in June we are ahead of those years. (Obviously you'd have to consider the whole country not just Dublin airport, but that was just the example you gave)

The J Stands for Jay

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Thanks McGaggs.

Averaged over how long? Where are you getting those numbers from?

I couldn't find any up to date figures - anything I could find only went as far as May. Not missing much - except the 1 bone dry month dry month so obviously that could skew the picture considerably!

For what it's worth, this is total rainfall @ Dublin airport for the months Jan to May for the past 5 years.

2018 - 294.1mm
2017 - 183.9mm (inc. june 270.3mm)
2016 - 349.4mm (inc. june 408mm)
2015 - 273.9mm (inc. june 288mm)
2014 - 368.5mm (inc. june 404.7mm)

There was no crisis in 2017 or 2015 that I can recall and even with no rain whatsoever in June we are ahead of those years. (Obviously you'd have to consider the whole country not just Dublin airport, but that was just the example you gave)

The average is from 1981 to 2010.

https://www.met.ie/climate/available-data/monthly-data

I wanted figures for the whole country, but, like I said, I was being lazy. It's still interesting. It's still early days, but the zero figure for the current month stands out.

I have a vague recollection of being told to conserve water in recent years, but I couldn't say for sure which years.

markodaly

There are some facebook posts going around by a group who call themselves 'Expose Fake Drought News'.
These people are pure and utter nutters. Nothing better to be doing than living off the state and coming up with this weird nonsense.

JupiterKid

This prolonged heatwave has dried up all the grass. I was out for a drive in Kildare/Laois/Carlow yesterday evening and the countryside resembles Northern California - very strange to see a non-green Ireland.

Apparently a big rain storm may be on its way by the weekend. Im actually looking forward to some rain!

my3cents

JupiterKid wrote: »

This prolonged heateave has dried up all the grass. I was out for a drive in Kildare/Laois/Carlow yesterday evening and the countryside resembles Northern California - very strange to see a non-green Ireland.

Apparently a big rain strom may be on its way by the weekend. Im actually looking forward to some rain!

Three days of decent rain and we'll all be moaning for the good old days of the drought again.

NinetyTwoTeam

If water charges had gone ahead we would still have these issues. A few dry weeks and the wettest country in the world is having issues with water that tells you how incompetent our government is.

Incompetent and corrupt - which is why meters were put in before leaks were fixed. The charge was set up to extract money from people and filter it to all the boys in the golden circle, like Hubert Kearns who bankrupted Sligo, got a 6 figure golden handshake, and a big fat pension, and then ON TOP of that, was given a seat on the board of Irish Water. When that man was in charge of Sligo there were stories in the paper saying the streetlights might have to be turned off as the council couldn't pay the ESB.

If you think the hosepipe ban is because people didn't pay water charges, you are a reactionary moron.

People were fed up giving money to incompetent and corrupt organizations and getting nothing for it or having it be wasted. They were done with being robbed and we already pay for water. obviously, it was not free, ever. you don't get anything free in this country, but people think water has been free all these years?

if the water charge would have gone ahead, this drought would still have happened and the ban would still be in place.

and guess what else? they would use it as an excuse to raise the charge for next year. guaranteed. just like they want to use it as an excuse to bring it back in but are too afraid to.

once the bin charges came in they rose drastically every year, greenstar even raised twice a year, and irish water would be an even bigger monopoly. you should be thanking those of us that prevented you getting fleeced, not blaming us for a drought that Irish Water wouldn't have been equipped to handle even if the charge had been collected anyway.