Peak Trans

_Kaiser_

Calhoun wrote: »

You wonder what the end game is here, it seems like a small minority trying to change and influence everyone around them so they become a bigger part of the pie.

I wonder what will happen when we are done with all the BS will we see a hard move to the otherside on these issues.

I will not be at all surprised if future generations look at the latter part of the 20th century/early 21st century as a time when Western civilisation, having peaked and defeated all external enemies for the most part, turned inward and started consuming itself over the course of 20 years.

Meanwhile the rest of the world moved on.

silverharp

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I will not be at all surprised if future generations look at the latter part of the 20th century/early 21st century as a time when Western civilisation, having peaked and defeated all external enemies for the most part, turned inward and started consuming itself over the course of 20 years.

Meanwhile the rest of the world moved on.

it would be a sad reflection on human nature and society that even if you win you lose.

Lux23

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Real human beings certainly, but again their feelings/view on the world does not trump DNA/science/biology. That's the reality and facts. Pretending otherwise is actually MORE harmful to them.

Has nothing at all to do with me getting older.. I just don't believe the Earth is flat, or the Emperor is wearing clothes!

Are you happy to ignore the possible scientific explanation for gender dysphoria?

"Analysis of around 160 participants showed that biological males with gender dysphoria - the experience of discomfort or distress due to their biological sex - had a brain structure and neurological patterns similar to biological females, and vice versa."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/

Annasopra

FTA69 wrote: »

There are a minority of transactivists who are labelling lesbians transphobic for not considering a relationship with a transwoman, because after all, the latter are indisputably women in their eyes.

Far more seriously in the UK is the growing trend of a small minority of transactivists who are assaulting women at political events and physically blocking and intimidating labour movement meetings to discuss legislation pertaining to women. It has gone completely bonkers.

This isnt one sided. The hatred and violence is coming from TERFs too. I'm glad Ireland managed to avoid this extremist hatred and violence.

Annasopra

ceadaoin. wrote: »

I've just re read this and noticed your choice of words. What I actually said was that lesbians are being labelled transphobic bigots and subjected to horrible online abuse by some transactivists if they don't want to have sex with a person in possession of a penis. This absolutely is happening and isn't utter rubbish. Now, I guess technically noone is saying that they *must* have sexual relationships with a person with a penis, they just better be prepared for the abuse if they speak publicly about their preferences. How is that not a form of coercion or any different to what an incel would do?

They are not though noone is insisting cis lebians must have sex with trans lesbians.

Mutant z

This is a load of nonsense anyone who believes they are a member of the opposite sex is truly deluded you are what you are from the moment of birth and there's no changing it no matter how much you want to.

Lux23

Mutant z wrote: »

This is a load of nonsense anyone who believes they are a member of the opposite sex is truly deluded you are what you are from the moment of birth and there's no changing it no matter how much you want to.

If people are happily deluded, what does it matter to you?

conorhal

Calhoun wrote: »

You wonder what the end game is here, it seems like a small minority trying to change and influence everyone around them so they become a bigger part of the pie.

I wonder what will happen when we are done with all the BS will we see a hard move to the otherside on these issues.

I get the feeling that in years to come, we will look back in shame at how we allowed a neurotic, sex obsessed bunch of ideologues to perpetrate horrific crimes against children with the open complicity of the state and a society that cheered them on....... wait, is there some history we're failing to learn from here?

Akrasia

Gender dysphoria is an unfortunate condition that some people are born with and have to find a way to come to terms with.

The 'trans' movement, is about turning it upside down and trying to get healthy normal gender identity to become the disorder unless everyone adopts the gender fluid attitudes of this tiny minority of people who suffer from a condition that requires medical intervention.

People are born with conditions that cause them problems all the time, dyslexia, epilepsy, diabetes, allergies, deaf or blind etc. The vast majority of these people just get on with life and all they ask for is a bit of help and understanding at times.

They don't go campaigning to make all of society change and conform to their own way of life. Blind people don't tell everyone we should wear blindfolds all the time, diabetics don't campaign to ban sugar, epileptics don't try to ban strobe lights etc.

Regarding Trans children. It's true that there are trans children born every day. What they need is understanding and professional, evidence based medical care and counselling where appropriate. It may well form a part of their identity and define how they live their lives, but this is a private matter for them, their families and medical team. It's horrible to see young children being paraded out in front of the print and social media by either side of this 'debate' to be pointed at and judged by everyone else. The parents of these children shouldn't be putting them in the limelight, their privacy needs to be protected.

Mutant z

Lux23 wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

This is a load of nonsense anyone who believes they are a member of the opposite sex is truly deluded you are what you are from the moment of birth and there's no changing it no matter how much you want to.

If people are happily deluded, what does it matter to you?

When they expect everyone else to go along with their charade they can identify with as they wish but not expect others to buy into their delusions.

Lux23

Lux23 wrote: »

If people are happily deluded, what does it matter to you?

That is a very dangerous attitude to have, not specifically on this point, but in general.

ceadaoin.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This isnt one sided. The hatred and violence is coming from TERFs too. I'm glad Ireland managed to avoid this extremist hatred and violence.

Can you provide of example of hatred and violence from "TERFS"? And I mean, actual threats of violence against trans people coming from feminists. Not just a bunch of women meeting to discuss how a potential change to the law will affect them or women calling a biological male a male.

I've seen plenty of threats of rape, beating, burning etc from extremist trans activists against others but honestly never from the other side. I'd be really interested to see some.

SEPT 23 1989

had to google TERF there

modern life really is passing me by:D

DEFTLEFTHAND

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

had to google TERF there

modern life really is passing me by:D

Germaine Greer would be a prominent example of a TERF.

Tis Yourself?

Lux23 wrote: »

Mutant z wrote: »

This is a load of nonsense anyone who believes they are a member of the opposite sex is truly deluded you are what you are from the moment of birth and there's no changing it no matter how much you want to.

If people are happily deluded, what does it matter to you?

It matters when others are forced to, and punished, for not accepting their delusions.

lads (of all genders and sexuality affinities)

its an amazing day out there. how is this thread as busy as it is.

most ppl (of all genders and etcs) treat each other pretty well most of the time

this stuff is very very rare/isolated and should occupy a proportionate space in discourse

FTA69

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

This isnt one sided. The hatred and violence is coming from TERFs too. I'm glad Ireland managed to avoid this extremist hatred and violence.

Sorry but you're talking absolute bullsh*t. What incidents have there been when feminist activists have been violent toward transgender people in the UK? It is absolutely, positively one-sided. Feminists haven't been up in court for bashing transgender people and neither are they physically blockading meeting halls while wearing masks and barring entry to people looking to attend a meeting.

A friend of mine was roared off a picket line of her own union by a shower of these idiots because one of them had recognised her from attending a meeting. I'd love to see evidence the violent incidents you've alluded to above.

Calhoun

Really puts a new light on that article in minds after the referendum saying that the trans people felt under represented and discriminated in the whole discussion.

Mutant z

Its about time scientific fact will win out over feelings and identity i find it incredible how the left are so willing to discard science when it doesnt fit their own narrative.

benjamin d

[Deleted User] wrote: »

this stuff is very very rare/isolated and should occupy a proportionate space in discourse

Considering that, according to Wikipedia, estimates for the prevalence of transgender people ranges from a low of 0.17 in 100000 (that's 0.00017%) to a high of 1 in 4500 (0.02%), transgender issues occupy an enormously inflated proportion of media attention. Ludicrously so, in fact.

hatrickpatrick

FurBabyMomma wrote: »

Funnily enough, I had the opposite experience. As a young tomboy, I wanted to be a boy as they seemed to have so much more freedom, whereas girls were to be protected and cosseted. As a teenager, I wanted to be a boy so I'd have access to a broader range of school subjects. I was sporty, but at the time there were no GAA or team sports available to girls in the locality, despite living in a city. Also, the boys' schools got half days on Wednesday, as.a.way to facilitate training, but the girls' schools didn't. Even today, if you gave me the choice, I'd still come back as a man.

That being said, I know I don't have gender dysphoria. I'm comfortable being a woman and have never loathed my body so much for its gender that I would want to change it surgically or otherwise. I've never felt I was born in the wrong body and wanted to kill myself for it. I can't imagine how difficult that is to live with and my heart goes out to anyone who feels that way. I imagine the vast majority of posters on here would be sympathetic too.

And there it is, the grass is always greener I guess I absolutely agree as far as feeling one has been born in the wrong body and having deep-seated psychological trauma and depression because of it. I'm merely suggesting that there's a middle ground here, where we can accept that true gender dysphoria is a very real and horrible thing for those who suffer from it, and that making decisions purely based on how a child feels in a particular timeframe is completely absurd. And that's the trend that worries me. There's a huge difference between what you've described, and the kind of society which seems to be advocated by the extremist SJW types, who come out with such gems as "puberty is optional" (seriously, wtf? Maybe this sign sign seen at Pride last weekend is meant as satire, but holy crap it's still a f*cked up message) and the whole idea that gender is entirely in one's mind and therefore that if you're a guy and you don't want to have sex with a biologically male human who identifies as a woman, you're some kind of homophobe, is a very dangerous one. As I say, I feel like we're moving into a society which is going to take the gender identity thing further than something that's actually diagnosed as a condition by medical professionals, and allow children to mutilate their own bodies based on nothing but what's going through their head as children. As I say, there's a reason we don't allow kids to drink, drive, vote, leave school, etc - it's completely ridiculous that we'd allow them to make decisions which could potentially lead to a lifetime of bitter regret.

Obviously my view is coloured by my own anecdote, but any time this stuff comes up I'm reminded that if I'd been a kid of the 2010s rather than the 1990s, I might easily have decided, based entirely on my own perceptions at the time, that being a boy sucked - and been subjected to life-altering medical treatment because of it. That, to me, is just a frightening thought and it saddens me that there are kids of Generations Z and beyond who might actually go through this because as a society we've become too hung up on this idea that everything about a person is entirely defined by how they feel at a particular time, and by no other factors at all.

Franz Von Peppercorn

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Germaine Greer would be a prominent example of a TERF.

Life passed her by too - one minute she's the height of radicalism, the next minute somebody invents the word CIS in an American university and she's an hoary old reactionary.

peasant

When it comes to the point of who jumps into bed with who I think we all discriminate ...because when it comes to the will you/ won't you point I think we would like to find our choice attractive and not repulsive (even if that changes in the morning when the drink wears off )

What you are attracted to / repulsed by differs from individual to individual...but we do most definitely discriminate, even within our preferred target group.

Wibbs

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

had to google TERF there

I didn't S. That's a bigger worry. :eek::D

wexie

Wibbs wrote: »

I didn't S. That's a bigger worry. :eek::D

Always did have you pegged as a radical feminist

Nermal

Lux23 wrote: »

If people are happily deluded, what does it matter to you?

It matters when I'm forced to share in their delusion.

Lux23 wrote: »

Are you happy to ignore the possible scientific explanation for gender dysphoria?

"Analysis of around 160 participants showed that biological males with gender dysphoria - the experience of discomfort or distress due to their biological sex - had a brain structure and neurological patterns similar to biological females, and vice versa."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/05/22/transgender-brain-scans-promised-study-shows-structural-differences/

I thought we weren't allowed to admit male and female brains were different. Isn't that what got James Damore fired from Google?

Sal Butamol

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Will you need more tissue?

No, I guess it's just another thing men are better at than women. Just surprised that thing is a women's beauty pageant

Cupatae

Nermal wrote: »

It matters when I'm forced to share in their delusion.



I thought we weren't allowed to admit male and female brains were different. Isn't that what got James Damore fired from Google?

Conflict occurs when the "deluded" try to force there views in to other peoples... no one has a problem until they try make the masses, conform and accept it..

I mean, do we have tran bathrooms or just male and female, and do we crucify the people that object to a grown man dressed as a woman going into the womens toilets? say if theres kids in the mix,

You can quickly see how it becomes a problem, even to people that are willing to tolerate the idea it starts to interfere with there life,

derfderf

Nermal wrote: »

I thought we weren't allowed to admit male and female brains were different.

Only when it suits the arguement. It's like in America when they assign Asian people when analyzing different races.
For education and income purposes they lump Asians in with white people (Asians are generally higher educated and have a higher income than other races).
When the discussion is about victims of racism they're classed as POC (I hate that phrase!).

pleas advice

https://www.buzz.ie/news/michael-jackson-chemically-castrated-dad-keep-high-pitched-voice-291664

Michael Jackson’s former family doctor ... has made claims about the music legend's dad.
he claimed: "Joe Jackson was one of the worst fathers to his children in history.

Murray initially alleged that Joe had made Michael take injections to cure acne and prevent his voice from deepening in his book, 'This Is It! The Secret Lives of Dr Conrad Murray and Michael Jackson'.In the book, he wrote:
"He began talking vaguely, seeming to have more difficulty describing precisely what happened to him. Maybe he was almost at the limit to his cathartic confession that night.

"But what Michael said left me the impression that he had been given injections, probably hormones, to delay puberty."

hatrickpatrick

derfderf wrote: »

POC (I hate that phrase!).

I find it kinda hilarious since it's so similar to the phrase "coloured people" which is regarded as inherently racist. I thought the whole point of equality was to allow people celebrate the actual specificities of their racial identity ("I'm Black / Asian / Hispanic / Latino / etc and proud of it"), but lately it feels like they're trying to turn back that clock and just lump all non-white folk into one grand category for the purposes of political or societal discourse.

Personally (and obviously this could be coloured, pun intended, by the type of young person of any race who's likely to visit Ireland as an American) I know more black people who get pissed off about this kind of stuff than actually like it. Indeed, one black woman I know essentially told me that the SJW crap tends to be made up entirely by young, middle class white millennials, and then imposed upon minority races as a dogma which you either "willingly" subscribe to, or they'll attack, belittle, and shame you even worse than the actual racists they claim to be truly fighting against.

I can't help wondering how many LGBT folk feel the same way. A huge amount of the extremist stuff seems to come from young straight people who want to virtue signal by hopping on a bandwagon and yet are trying to define the entire conversation according to their world views as opposed to the world views of those who are actually living these social issues for themselves.

LuckyLloyd

benjamin d wrote: »

Considering that, according to Wikipedia, estimates for the prevalence of transgender people ranges from a low of 0.17 in 100000 (that's 0.00017%) to a high of 1 in 4500 (0.02%), transgender issues occupy an enormously inflated proportion of media attention. Ludicrously so, in fact.

That's wild - hard to believe the politically inclined youth of today are so concerned with this stuff when it is of such tiny import on society.

Sal Butamol

We really are importing the most toxic aspects of American identity politics.

professore

ItAintMeBabe wrote: »

Why?

For the same reason I would hate people saying "white swan". The vast majority of swans are white - it's stupid to keep adding "white" in front of it.

markodaly

It is interesting that things we would normally balk at, like FGM or chemical castration are both illegal and frowned upon, yet the new age moral guardians of our world want to make it acceptable if a 2-year-old 'identifies' as the other sex.

Why are these idiots listened to? Does that make me a Transphobe? It is also odd that this ideology gets a license to spout this stuff here.

ceadaoin.

markodaly wrote: »

It is interesting that things we would normally balk at, like FGM or chemical castration are both illegal and frowned upon, yet the new age moral guardians of our world want to make it acceptable if a 2-year-old 'identifies' as the other sex.

Why are these idiots listened to? Does that make me a Transphobe? It is also odd that this ideology gets a license to spout this stuff here.

In the UK , a woman was interviewed by police under caution for saying on Twitter that an underage male child who was sent by his mother to have to have gender reassignment surgery in Thailand had been "castrated". This is hate speech now apparently. This type of surgery is not allowed in the UK on children. Any parent who sends their female children abroad for female genital mutilation so that they can circumvent UK law is subject to criminal action, and rightly so. Why the double standard? It's bizarre.

DEFTLEFTHAND

ceadaoin. wrote: »

In the UK , a woman was interviewed by police under caution for saying on Twitter that an underage male child who was sent by his mother to have to have gender reassignment surgery in Thailand had been "castrated". This is hate speech now apparently. This type of surgery is not allowed in the UK on children. Any parent who sends their female children abroad for female genital mutilation so that they can circumvent UK law is subject to criminal action, and rightly so. Why the double standard? It's bizarre.

This is seriously disturbing and creepy.

Somebody needs to shout halt on this whole thing.

We're going to look back one day with utter shame and regret.

DEFTLEFTHAND

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote:

We're going to look back one day with utter shame and regret.

If anyone thinks that this is acceptable or appropriate, they should be ashamed of themselves

ceadaoin.

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

This is seriously disturbing and creepy.

Somebody needs to shout halt on this whole thing.

We're going to look back one day with utter shame and regret.

Mermaids is the organisation that the mother who allowed her son to be operated on works for. Mermaids are campaigning for children to be allowed gender reassignment surgery on the NHS, and also provide training to the police and schools on trans issues relating to children. How people like this have gained such positions of influence and so fast is beyond me.

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Mermaids is the organisation that the mother who allowed her son to be operated on works for. Mermaids are campaigning for children to be allowed gender reassignment surgery on the NHS, and also provide training to the police and schools on trans issues relating to children. How people like this have gained such positions of influence and so fast is beyond me.

I'm not surprised. Feminism opened the gates to all offices with the focus on "equality" and the focus groups for minorities widened the doors even further. This movement to make everything acceptable allows pretty much everything to be tolerated, and any objections to it, are passed off as discrimination. It started in the universities as much as three decades ago, which means that the graduates of womens studies, or other pop-psychology courses have had the time to get into positions of power/influence.

It's more of the short-term focus of politics and social change. In their rush to change everything, they've encouraged all the limitations to be removed.

And it will get worse, because there is no real way to oppose it. Oh, sure, some traditionally disliked minority groups or behavior will continue to be shut out, but we're going to see a lot more minority beliefs about sexuality, gender, etc to gain influence.

Malayalam

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm not surprised. Feminism opened the gates to all offices with the focus on "equality" and the focus groups for minorities widened the doors even further. This movement to make everything acceptable allows pretty much everything to be tolerated, and any objections to it, are passed off as discrimination. It started in the universities as much as three decades ago, which means that the graduates of womens studies, or other pop-psychology courses have had the time to get into positions of power/influence.

It's more of the short-term focus of politics and social change. In their rush to change everything, they've encouraged all the limitations to be removed.

And it will get worse, because there is no real way to oppose it. Oh, sure, some traditionally disliked minority groups or behavior will continue to be shut out, but we're going to see a lot more minority beliefs about sexuality, gender, etc to gain influence.

The roots of biology denialism are much more in transhumanism than in feminism.

Malayalam

Malayalam wrote:

The roots of biology denialism are much more in transhumanism than in feminism.

Undoubtedly, but the floodgates were opened when "third wave" feminism redefined "equality" and promoted a culture of victimhood

Malayalam

Malayalam wrote: »

The roots of biology denialism are much more in transhumanism than in feminism.

Sure, I can accept that. It doesn't refute what I posted though.

Annasopra

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Mermaids is the organisation that the mother who allowed her son to be operated on works for. Mermaids are campaigning for children to be allowed gender reassignment surgery on the NHS, and also provide training to the police and schools on trans issues relating to children. How people like this have gained such positions of influence and so fast is beyond me.

Have you any links to your claims that Mermaids are campaigning for this surgery?

ceadaoin.

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Have you any links to your claims that Mermaids are campaigning for this surgery?

Well this is what the CEO has to say about prescribing cross sex hormones to children

"“Basing it on an age is completely inappropriate,” said Susie Green, head of Mermaids, a charity that works with trans children and their families. “We believe it should be in line with the young person’s maturity and their ability to understand what’s involved and the implications of what treating and not treating are.”

this is the same person who sent her son to Thailand at 16 for surgery, something which is now illegal there also. It's pretty obvious what her, and by extension the organisation she represents, stance is regarding surgery for people under 18 given that they are so eager to have kids started on blockers and hormones.

Still waiting for those links showing "TERFS" making actual rape and death threats against trans gender people or trying to disrupt their meetings with violence.

Annasopra

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well this is what the CEO has to say about prescribing cross sex hormones to children

"“Basing it on an age is completely inappropriate,” said Susie Green, head of Mermaids, a charity that works with trans children and their families. “We believe it should be in line with the young person’s maturity and their ability to understand what’s involved and the implications of what treating and not treating are.”

this is the same person who sent her son to Thailand at 16 for surgery, something which is now illegal there also. It's pretty obvious what her, and by extension the organisation she represents, stance is regarding surgery for people under 18 given that they are so eager to have kids started on blockers and hormones.

Still waiting for those links showing "TERFS" making actual rape and death threats against trans gender people or trying to disrupt their meetings with violence.

So basically you made that up about them campaigning for surgery then. Its actual nonsense really. Nobody is campaigning for surgery on children.

Cupatae

How do these threads just drift off into nonsense nearly completely irrelevant to the original topic.. lol

Malayalam

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

So basically you made that up about them campaigning for surgery then. Its actual nonsense really. Nobody is campaigning for surgery on children.

If the CEO of one of the UK's biggest charities advocating for transkids brought her child to Thailand for a full sex change operation at 16 - the youngest ever Briton to have such surgery - it at least indicates a strong mindset.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3973036/Jackie-Green-heart-controversy-children-young-nine-given-drugs-change-sex.html

As to the idea that nobody is campaigning for surgery on children, I find this is incorrect -

In the US Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy, Assistant Professor at the Children's Hospital in Los Angeles, and prominent gender physician for children, has been actively campaigning for lowering the age of genital surgeries for young people. This is a doctor who has admitted to skipping the pubertal blockers and putting children as young as 12 directly onto cross sex hormones.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/skipping-the-puberty-blockers-american-transgender-children-doctors-are-going-rogue/



A voice warning the be cautious of the more permissive approach being advocated-

Dr Kenneth Zucker, a gender identity specialist at Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, (says) "There is debate on how low one should go in starting hormonal treatment to suppress puberty. I think where it's going to get interesting in this field in the next 10 years is that, at least in some quarters, there's now a much more permissive approach toward supporting cross-sex hormone therapy and even surgery and the question is going to be, 'is the more permissive approach going to correlate with more regrets or more dissatisfaction?'"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30783983

The campaign for lowering the age of surgeries for children focuses in particular on mastectomies and hysterectomies as opposed to necessarily genital reconstructive surgery.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/mastectomies-endorsed-in-treatment-guidelines-for-trans-teens/news-story/2b396fc79f65cc89299a21593ed48366?nk=689a07e3115e7c329e2cd24f39080e05-1531375788

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/03/18/about-a-boy-2

Similarly in the UK there are doctors in private clinics who will administer cross sex hormones below the age of 16. As young as 11 or 12. For example Dr Helen Webberly.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/whats-missing-from-the-conversation-about-transgender-kids.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk

In Australia the campaign to make cross sex hormones available to younger children is also active.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31429-6/fulltext


Note - pubertal blockers followed by cross sex hormones almost invariably results in sterility. This is huge given that we are talking about what are effectively children who cannot legally drive, drink or vote.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/46da/ae7559f1b49d4516b0eee5266ab24a6e739a.pdf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5642577/NHS-sex-change-drugs-putting-hundreds-children-risk-year.html




Children and teens are accessing cross sex hormones online.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenagers-in-online-drug-danger-qbqhxp8ps


Note - some researchers describe the huge increase in ROGD among children as a psychic epidemic or social contagion, reminiscent of the multiple personality disorder contagion of the 1990s.

http://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804

Excellent post. Thanks for all the links.

Disturbing reading TBH.

Annasopra

Malayalam wrote: »

If the CEO of one of the UK's biggest charities advocating for transkids brought her child to Thailand for a full sex change operation at 16 - the youngest ever Briton to have such surgery - it at least indicates a strong mindset.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3973036/Jackie-Green-heart-controversy-children-young-nine-given-drugs-change-sex.html

As to the idea that nobody is campaigning for surgery on children, I find this is incorrect -

In the US Dr. Johanna Olson-Kennedy, Assistant Professor at the Children's Hospital in Los Angeles, and prominent gender physician for children, has been actively campaigning for lowering the age of genital surgeries for young people. This is a doctor who has admitted to skipping the pubertal blockers and putting children as young as 12 directly onto cross sex hormones.

https://gendertrender.wordpress.com/2014/11/11/skipping-the-puberty-blockers-american-transgender-children-doctors-are-going-rogue/



A voice warning the be cautious of the more permissive approach being advocated-

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30783983

The campaign for lowering the age of surgeries for children focuses in particular on mastectomies and hysterectomies as opposed to necessarily genital reconstructive surgery.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/mastectomies-endorsed-in-treatment-guidelines-for-trans-teens/news-story/2b396fc79f65cc89299a21593ed48366?nk=689a07e3115e7c329e2cd24f39080e05-1531375788

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/03/18/about-a-boy-2

Similarly in the UK there are doctors in private clinics who will administer cross sex hormones below the age of 16. As young as 11 or 12. For example Dr Helen Webberly.

https://www.thecut.com/2016/07/whats-missing-from-the-conversation-about-transgender-kids.html

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jul/11/transgender-nhs-doctor-prescribing-sex-hormones-children-uk

In Australia the campaign to make cross sex hormones available to younger children is also active.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)31429-6/fulltext


Note - pubertal blockers followed by cross sex hormones almost invariably results in sterility. This is huge given that we are talking about what are effectively children who cannot legally drive, drink or vote.
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/46da/ae7559f1b49d4516b0eee5266ab24a6e739a.pdf

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5642577/NHS-sex-change-drugs-putting-hundreds-children-risk-year.html




Children and teens are accessing cross sex hormones online.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-teenagers-in-online-drug-danger-qbqhxp8ps


Note - some researchers describe the huge increase in ROGD among children as a psychic epidemic or social contagion, reminiscent of the multiple personality disorder contagion of the 1990s.

http://quillette.com/2017/10/06/misunderstanding-new-kind-gender-dysphoria/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00332925.2017.1350804

Yeah no the poster claimed that Mermaids is campaigning for surgery for children. That is absolutely categorically wrong. They are not. The poster made it up. I dont know why you referenced hormones when I was talking about surgery. Of course there are some renegade medical practitioners advocating surgery as you reference but these are not widely carried out or agreed with or condoned. In relation to mastectomies yes they can be carried out at 16. The thing about it is though there has already been mastectomy surgery available for children for a long time for various other health conditions.

In regard to the issue of Susie Green/Mermaids there is a lot of mistruth and lies being spread around in this thread.

1 Susie Greens child was 16 at the time of the surgery in Thailand and in fact capable of making their own decisions.
2 She did not send her child anywhere to circumvent UK law. The law at the time was unclear. It has subsequently been clarified and would be illegal in the UK and Thailand at the time. What was done was at the time was lawful in the UK and Thailand
3 The person convicted of hate speech against Susie Green and her family was not convicted solely on the basis of 1 or 2 words as indicated abive. It was concerted harassment, publicly outing Susie Green and her child, inciting transphobic hatred against them on public platforms.