God created Elon Musk to be a supervillain but forgot to flip the last switch.

Wibbs

...Ghost... wrote: »

I’m not comparing a Leaf to a 370Z.

Too many EV heads do.

So you have driven two EVs. Not for very long I suspect. I’ve sat in super cars. It’s not the same as test driving one for a few hours.

You don't say... Had the Leaf for two days, i3 a day. The i3 was well ahead of the Leaf to drive. Nicer interior, though may as well be a two door. Didn't like the look of the thing, but BMW did try to make it look like The Future™. The Leaf looks like the special kid in the class who shoves pencils up his nose. The upcoming one looks much better.

There have been very few Leafs scrapped in Ireland, but of the ones I am aware, the batteries have been stripped out and used for battery storage, or on converted personal transport vehicles. I never suggested changing cars every 3 years, so please don’t put words in my mouth to try make a point. In response to your question, I believe that it is greener if I were to buy a new EV and sell it on in 3 years when compared to doing the same with an ICE car. This is because my used EV will most likely be replacing an ICE vehicle. While the initial environmental impact of an EV is higher, it takes only a short time for the impact of an ICE vehicle to overtake the EV. Plus, the battery is reused and recycled, voiding the additional environmental impact for an EV. It doesn’t matter who drives the EV until its end of life, as long as someone drives it until it can’t be driven anymore.

My point is until we as a society get over the waste of near constant consumption and short product cycles, EV will help, but not nearly as much as people seem eager to believe.

I am no clean freak, but petrol and diesel pumps have a lot more than fuel residue on the handles. There is a reason many garages supply gloves and/or paper towel beside the pumps.

For the clean freaks.

Effects

Wibbs wrote: »

For the clean freaks.

I'm not a clean freak but hate my hand stinking of Diesel afterwards.
That said, I usually carry my own, better quality glove, to do the job!

FTA69

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

In Elon Musk's factory ambulances are called every two weeks due to workers being pushed so hard they collapse. The place is rife with bullying, forced overtime and wages are crap. In other words, the man is an exploitation merchant flogging people in pursuit of profit but because there's a cool 'tech' angle to what he does people want to kiss his arse.

Wibbs

kyote00 wrote: »

ahem....Henry's wife did drive an electric.....

https://www.thehenryford.org/artifact/209957/

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/a1609/4215940/

Not surprising as they were very popular "Ladies cars" among the well heeled as town cars. No faffing about with oily bits, starting handles and a multitude of pedals and range wasn't an issue for their intended purpose. Collector Jay Leno has a couple of them. He's restoring one and fitting it with a modern electric motor and batteries. That'll be an interesting subsection of motoring, retrofitting electric motors into classic cars. You can already get kits. VW Beetles and Fiat 500's are a popular choice. Anything that had a boring petrol engine in the first place.

Tzardine

FTA69 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

In Elon Musk's factory ambulances are called every two weeks due to workers being pushed so hard they collapse. The place is rife with bullying, forced overtime and wages are crap. In other words, the man is an exploitation merchant flogging people in pursuit of profit but because there's a cool 'tech' angle to what he does people want to kiss his arse.

At first glance that sounds like a lot, but then you think about it.

The factory has 10,000 workers in it and having lived in America I can tell you that people will call an ambulance for the most minor things. 52 ambulances in a year for 10,000 people is not that shocking.

FTA69

Tzardine wrote: »

At first glance that sounds like a lot, but then you think about it.

The factory has 10,000 workers in it and having lived in America I can tell you that people will call an ambulance for the most minor things. 52 ambulances in a year for 10,000 people is not that shocking.

It's very shocking mate, the only other factory I know of with a similar dynamic is Sports Direct in Shiresbrook - a place where women were giving birth in the jacks. The article above has details of workers suffering life-changing injuries from the pace of work there as well as a culture of bullying. Absolutely toxic sh*t. Why someone is defending the mistreatment of workers at the hands of one of the world's richest men is beyong me.

Twenty Grand

Teslas accident rate is 30% higher than other manufacturers in 2016.

http://www.ehstoday.com/safety-leadership/tesla-safety-sacrificed-production

Apparently they've reduced this by 25% over the last 2 years but there's reports of minor accidents getting logged as incidents.

To say it's all Rosy is wrong. To say it's akin to a sweatshop is also wrong.

ohnonotgmail

Tzardine wrote: »

FTA69 wrote: »

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-workers-factory-conditions-elon-musk

In Elon Musk's factory ambulances are called every two weeks due to workers being pushed so hard they collapse. The place is rife with bullying, forced overtime and wages are crap. In other words, the man is an exploitation merchant flogging people in pursuit of profit but because there's a cool 'tech' angle to what he does people want to kiss his arse.

At first glance that sounds like a lot, but then you think about it.

The factory has 10,000 workers in it and having lived in America I can tell you that people will call an ambulance for the most minor things. 52 ambulances in a year for 10,000 people is not that shocking.

if they are calling an ambulance every 2 weeks that is only 26 ambulance calls a year so even less shocking.

Skylinehead

Tzardine wrote: »

At first glance that sounds like a lot, but then you think about it.

The factory has 10,000 workers in it and having lived in America I can tell you that people will call an ambulance for the most minor things. 52 ambulances in a year for 10,000 people is not that shocking.

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they are calling an ambulance every 2 weeks that is only 26 ambulance calls a year so even less shocking.

Maybe read the article?

Ambulances have been called more than 100 times since 2014 for workers experiencing fainting spells, dizziness, seizures, abnormal breathing and chest pains, according to incident reports obtained by the Guardian. Hundreds more were called for injuries and other medical issues.

These are separate from workplace injuries.

Effects

FTA69 wrote: »

Sports Direct in Shiresbrook - a place where women were giving birth in the jacks.

Sure they were.

ohnonotgmail

Nixonbot wrote: »

Maybe read the article?

I did read the article. 100 times since 2014 is approximately once every two weeks. what did i miss?

Skylinehead

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I did read the article. 100 times since 2014 is approximately once every two weeks. what did i miss?

Hundreds more were called for injuries and other medical issues.

I don't think an ambulance every 2 weeks for purely stress and mental reasons is low at all.

ancapailldorcha

Candie wrote: »

Not too far away from where I was for a couple of months until recently.

The childhood threat when I was naughty was that I'd be sent to the Scrubs, I'm still a bit scared going past. Just in case.

Oh wow.

It's got a lovely park though. Helped keep me sane when I was unemployed last year for a bit.

Tzardine

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if they are calling an ambulance every 2 weeks that is only 26 ambulance calls a year so even less shocking.

Yes, maths fail on my part.

Nixonbot wrote: »

I don't think an ambulance every 2 weeks for purely stress and mental reasons is low at all.

It really is though. Out of 10,000 people, equivalent to a town the size of Cavan, there were 26 ambulance calls in a year.

How many of the cases were actually caused by underlying health conditions. I suspect a few.

I am not trying to defend any employer that treats their staff badly - and I dont know enough about Musk and Tesla frankly to say whether he is or is not.

But I still dont think that statistically 26 ambulances for 10,000 staff in a year for fainting etc is shocking. I worked in an art gallery and we had 3-4 ambulances a year from visitors fainting for example.

Hulk Hands

Wibbs wrote: »

Man, that's some fan delusion Musk reality distortion field going on there. Similar was to be seen with fans of Steve Jobs. With one major and obvious difference: Jobs turned a failing Apple around and made it one of the largest and most profitable companies in the world.

And if according to you, it's "nothing impressive", how come Tesla, for all Musk's empty and year on year promises, has failed to come within an asses roar of that kind of output. As for next year, I'll lay a sure bet now, Tesla won't.

Are you making bets again? You posted the below in Feb 2016 in realtion to the model 3.

Wibbs wrote: »

OK N, now granted it is often a truism that the cynical tend to turn out to be prophets, but I'll bet you now that they won't, nor close to it. It'll largely follow the Model S trajectory. Bigger numbers maybe, but not enough to grow the company

Since then, a time when you also basically predicted Teslas bankruptcy, Teslas share price has more than doubled based on the success of the model 3.

You constantly reference (hundreds of times over) the fanboys that worship at the altar of Elon. Yet in every Musk related thread I've come across on this site in 3 years, you've been the single biggest contributer, and id be an infrequent visitor to the site these days. For all that you poke fun at his supposed brainwashed fans, and make similarities to Steve Jobs which don't make any sense, ive never come across anyone who obbsses about Musk (or indeed any person) as much as you do.

FTA69

Effects wrote: »

Sure they were.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sports-direct-worker-gave-birth-8131408.amp

Yes they were.

Effects

FTA69 wrote: »

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/sports-direct-worker-gave-birth-8131408.amp

Yes they were.

Nothin in that article says anything about multiple births from multiple women in the toilets, like it’s a regular occurance. Which is what you seemed to be suggesting.

Sal Butamol

Funny how the libtards hero is now public enemy number 1 having been revealed overnight to be a donor to the Republicans

The mental crybabies are cancelling their Tesla orders en masse and posting screenshots to the effect all over twitter.

Sal Butamol

Sal Butamol wrote: »

Funny how the libtards hero is now public enemy number 1 having been revealed overnight to be a donor to the Republicans

The mental crybabies are cancelling their Tesla orders en masse and posting screenshots to the effect all over twitter.

I love this stuff. My friend, who has a painting of Musk on his wall, is probably crying right now, like he and his girlfriend did when Trump won.

To be a fly on his wall would be amazing right now.

Twenty Grand

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I love this stuff. My friend, who has a painting of Musk on his wall, is probably crying right now, like he and his girlfriend did when Trump won.

To be a fly on his wall would be amazing right now.

Your posts say far more about you than the topic at hand.

Also https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/07/15/elon-musk-downplays-gop-donations-touts-environment-and-human-rights.html

Sal Butamol

Hahahaha love this "environmentalist" angle

Hilarious

Rjd2

He can donate his money to whoever he wants, but a dude near 50 calling someone pedo guy, just no.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1018497953051258880

Sal Butamol

The left turns on everyone haha

Wibbs

Hulk Hands wrote: »

Are you making bets again? You posted the below in Feb 2016 in realtion to the model 3.



Since then, a time when you also basically predicted Teslas bankruptcy, Teslas share price has more than doubled based on the success of the model 3.

I'm not changing my prediction. As I said back then bigger numbers will come on the back of the Model 3 but are not gonna change the truly insane levels of cash flowing out of the company, a financial situation that is not sustainable. Share prices are rarely a good indicator by the by. The share price of many companies, particularly volatile one can and do go up and down like a whoer's knickers. Also look at the bets against Tesla stocks, which are hitting new records.

You constantly reference (hundreds of times over) the fanboys that worship at the altar of Elon. Yet in every Musk related thread I've come across on this site in 3 years, you've been the single biggest contributer, and id be an infrequent visitor to the site these days. For all that you poke fun at his supposed brainwashed fans, and make similarities to Steve Jobs which don't make any sense, ive never come across anyone who obbsses about Musk (or indeed any person) as much as you do.

Which proves my point. Hundreds is a crazy exaggeration, as is "single biggest contributor". EG in the Tesla model 3 thread with a couple of thousand posts I posted twice. It seems you selectively notice critique of the company and the man. Hell you went off searching to dig up a two year old post of mine to back up your assertion. Never mind that I have repeatedly stated I like the guy in many ways, not least on this thread, yet you miss that? Ergo you're making one helluva good imitation of one of these sensitive to any dissension fanboys I reference.

Jim Bob Scratcher

Looks like poor Elon is having a meltdown.

CrankyHaus

The FT has had some brilliant reporting on tesla's production woes.

I hope he is successful but there is a lot of reason to worry that he will not be.

When he started selling those Boring company flamethrowers, that were just acetylene torches with fancy packaging, I really began to fear the worst.

_Dara_

I think a big part of Musk’s problem is his face, his droopy, sourpuss mug. It makes him look like a Bond villain, bless him. :pac:

Pa ElGrande

Deleted User wrote: »

global reserves of lithium are estimated at 39 million tons, that's a lot of 38 grams of material.

No reason to assume that future batteries will need lithium, we do not yet know what will be the optimum battery that will power BEV's in the near future.
It could simply use carbon.

And there's plenty of that around!

What about all the copper needed to build out the electricity grid to charge a large install base of electric cars and the Uranium for the power plants needed for the base load power to meet the new demand?

Pa ElGrande

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

People calling him a conman clearly haven't seen SpaceX.

They've over 50% of the rocket launch market with a technology no other company/country has been able to copy as of yet.

Jim Chanos expectation is that he will eventually move over to SpaceX if Tesla and Solarcity does not bury him first.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zv3YhMzS0z4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQGhHAr3oqQ

Rjd2

Rjd2 wrote: »

He can donate his money to whoever he wants, but a dude near 50 calling someone pedo guy, just no.

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1018497953051258880

May as well double down I suppose which he has.:eek:

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1018513369404493824

Bit of a snowflake is Mr Musk.