Death of the rim brake looming?

CramCycle

I think there are enough small builders out there that an out and out death is unlikely. What is more likely is that innovations and weight savings will stop. I have never ridden Carbon rims, and to be honest, I don't currently have a need to either. In the wet there is about an extra metre in my stopping distance if I haven't been clearing the rims but so far there is no benefit for me and considering the price differences, I'd sooner do the short term cheapskate thing and just replace wheels or rims when needed.

This said, I still see people who have to squeeze their brakes to the bars to get them to stop, this is not the fault of rim brakes, this is poor set up. If they can't maintain rim brakes, lord help them maintaining discs.

Lumen

CramCycle wrote: »

This said, I still see people who have to squeeze their brakes to the bars to get them to stop, this is not the fault of rim brakes, this is poor set up. If they can't maintain rim brakes, lord help them maintaining discs.

Or cantis!

Hydro discs require less maintenance. You can ride them until you hear metal on metal and then take it to a shop.

I've also not touched my brake lines since I bought the bike, maybe three years ago.

DirkVoodoo

Lumen wrote: »

Or cantis!

Hydro discs require less maintenance. You can ride them until you hear metal on metal and then take it to a shop.

I've also not touched my brake lines since I bought the bike, maybe three years ago.

You should remind people here that whenever we have gone out for a jaunt around Howth, I can't ride behind you because you can come to a complete stop before I've had time to react. The idea of that happening in a race terrifies me, at least if everyone has the same level of braking performance, it's somewhat predictable. Now you need to be aware if you're following a guy on discs who can brake later and harder in a corner. If he's in front of you, you risk going into the back of him, if he's behind you, he might go into the back of you because he's not expecting you to brake.

It's not the discs that scare me, it's the mixed performance. And I don't find my carbon rims are that much worse than alloy ones. The gap to hydraulic discs is much, much greater.

In an A4 bunch where some lad buys his new disc-equipped TCR and has his first experience of a bunch in 2019. May God have mercy on us all...

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

You should remind people here that whenever we have gone out for a jaunt around Howth, I can't ride behind you because you can come to a complete stop before I've had time to react.

Ah sure, but those (wet) rides involve coming to a complete halt at junctions. The only time you brake like that in a race is when someone has crashed in front of you, and under those circumstances it's every braker for themselves.

The gap between wet carbon rim brakes and wet alu rim brakes hasn't led to calls to ban either in races.

Macy0161

CramCycle wrote:

I think there are enough small builders out there that an out and out death is unlikely. What is more likely is that innovations and weight savings will stop.

I think that's already happening. A few manufacturers are claiming the disc brakes are more aerodynamic than rim, for example.

Can't see unavailability of replacements being an issue for a long time. It may start to slow at the top if there's clear standards and all the pro teams go disc.

smacl

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

It's not the discs that scare me, it's the mixed performance. And I don't find my carbon rims are that much worse than alloy ones. The gap to hydraulic discs is much, much greater.

Pad material also seems to have a big effect here, where resin and teflon pads in my experience have much less stopping power than metal / sintered. I find going back to using rim brakes after well set up disc brakes can be unnerving.

magicbastarder

smacl wrote: »

teflon pads

not heard of these before. isn't teflon, eh, non-stick?

jon1981

Be interesting to see what the feedback is from the Tour de France, mix of rim and disc in the peleton.

smacl

magicbastarder wrote: »

not heard of these before. isn't teflon, eh, non-stick?

My pad, just looked at a set here, kevlar not teflon.

CramCycle

jon1981 wrote: »

Be interesting to see what the feedback is from the Tour de France, mix of rim and disc in the peleton.

Wouldn't really be relevant as braking will be minimal and in really dry conditions for the most part. Bikes will be in such good condition and riders so adept, it would be a near non issue at that level for that type of race.

More interested to hear feedback from UK amateur races that had people turn up with discs in the last year

comanche_cor

CramCycle wrote: »

Wouldn't really be relevant as braking will be minimal and in really dry conditions for the most part. Bikes will be in such good condition and riders so adept, it would be a near non issue at that level for that type of race.

Would there not be an advantage on some of the big descents - being able to brake later and far more controlled braking?

CramCycle

comanche_cor wrote: »

Would there not be an advantage on some of the big descents - being able to brake later and far more controlled braking?

GCN doen a comparison (OK considering their procedures of evaluation, not much good for scientific evidence) but maybe gives an indication. Personally I watched it and thought, I'll stick with rim brakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hKMgUEku4

I could be wrong but the discs were faster on the straights and the rims were faster through the corners (I should have rewatched this before posting).

ford2600

From a manufacturers point of view disc brakes are as good as it gets for making kit obselete; all those spares you have frames, wheels, hubs, levers, calipers are now worthless.

While there is an improved braking performance, for the ordinary rider there is so much fruit lower down on tree to put you in a position where you don't need anything other than rim brakes; road position, perception, reaction, braking technique etc etc.

An awful lot of people will of course want to "fix" something immediately than put time into training/learning. Good shortcut have a chat with a motorcycle rider still alive north of 40.

The bicycle is a simple device; adding discs to road bikes is a deviation from that and a fcuk you to the ordinary rider.

I've toured with 20kg loads and rims, descending HC climbs in the wet and "I need better braking" was never my takeaway.

Lumen

It's a bit difficult to argue simultaneously that (a) rim brakes are just as powerful and so disc brakes are pointless, and (b) disc brakes will cause racing carnage because discs are much more powerful.

seamus

I've always liked discs, but never enough to be bothered about retrofitting them, or buying a new bike because I had to have them.

Tbh, v-brakes were touted as the cantilever killer 25 years ago, and yet you'll still have no issues getting your hands on spares for cantis. So I wouldn't go too hard on the idea that your spare parts become obsolete overnight. Indeed, road frames will continue to come with mount points for calipers for a long time yet, because things like mudguards are also dependent on it. So if you really dislike the discs, you can remove them and use your spares instead

As someone who does all my own maintenance, discs are incredibly appealing because they're easier to adjust and require less frequent work. But for the ordinary Joe it probably represents something they need a bike shop to do for them.

I'll likely upgrade next year, so that should be just in time for the mid-level bikes to be produced with discs and Di2.

Alanstrainor

ford2600 wrote: »

The bicycle is a simple device; adding discs to road bikes is a deviation from that and a fcuk you to the ordinary rider.

The same argument could have been said when we moved from single speed bikes to geared bikes to be fair. A bike can be as simple as you want, and any enthusiast will have the option to buy or build their version of the ideal.

I moved to discs a year ago. I've covered 5k km and changed my rear brake pads once, the front pads will be done soon. The performance is fantastic, wet or dry and all in all I'm a fan. I do have my old single speed with v-brakes which perform fine, but not as well as my discs.

sin_26

All in all discs on road bike looks just crappy. Sorry but i`m out so

harringtonp

smacl wrote: »

I suspect very many bikes are bought with a fit of enthusiasm but don't get enough use to wear out anything much. The additional up front cost of discs is likely to outweigh the lost revenue for wheel longevity. It would be interesting to know what percentage of wheels sold are due to replacing worn rims versus being shipped with a new bike or bought as an upgrade.

I've owned a lot of wheels but only ever remember getting to the point of a worn rim once

Borderfox

Its just another choice, I changed to discs two winters ago and will not be going back to rim brakes anytime soon.

magicbastarder

harringtonp wrote: »

I've owned a lot of wheels but only ever remember getting to the point of a worn rim once

i think you may be undermining your own point here...

CramCycle

harringtonp wrote: »

I've owned a lot of wheels but only ever remember getting to the point of a worn rim once

Always the freehub or similar, never the rim, but I always used to buy cheap wheels bar my dynamo ones so I couldn't repair them even though the rim was fine.

Now I have expensive wheels, I will have to wait and see.

kenmc

Commuting through the winter, I'd have gone through a set of pads a year, set of rims at least every 2. Built a disc braked commuter in 2012. Haven't looked at rims or brakes since. Guaranteed stopping power, with a kid on the back, is vital, rather than waiting for the rims and pads to dry sufficiently to take effect.

From that perspective, discs are invaluable. Good road bike wise, either or, currently have rims. If I was replacing it, I'd probably go disc so I'd be able to swap and change if need be

smacl

seamus wrote: »

As someone who does all my own maintenance, discs are incredibly appealing because they're easier to adjust and require less frequent work.

Currently using ST-RS685 and not sure I'd agree with the easier to adjust. I found setting the amount of travel on the levers for the brakes to engage finicky, involving a full bleed and lots of digging around for obscure information (as well as buying a bleed kit). Probably on a par with replacing cable inners and outers for the first time. Hoods as shipped on the RS685 were also dodgy, more discussion here, currently have a replacement set on order. I'm on discs primarily for large tyre clearance options on the CX bike.

Once setup well the brakes are brilliant, and hopefully will have minimal ongoing maintenance, but never had much problem with v-brakes on my road bikes.

07Lapierre

IMO Rim brakes will go the same way as 8,9 speed drive trains. They will still be fitted to bikes at the cheaper end of the market but will “fade out” ( no pun intended) of the more expensive bikes over time.

magicbastarder

or else it'll be like steel frames. there'll be a market for them, possibly described as 'boutique' in newspaper articles about it.

CramCycle

magicbastarder wrote: »

or else it'll be like steel frames. there'll be a market for them, possibly described as 'boutique' in newspaper articles about it.

I have a moustache now, and a track bike, never thought I would see the day when a geared rim brake bike would be the defining feature of me being a hipster :eek:

tomasrojo

A few years back during a time of very poor cash flow, I kept one set of wheels going so long that the wall deformed when I was fixing a puncture, just from the pressure of the tyre lever.

tomasrojo

You can still get Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs. I bet you'll still have rim brakes far into the future.

Lumen

tomasrojo wrote: »

You can still get Sturmey Archer 3-speed hubs. I bet you'll still have rim brakes far into the future.

Too right. The Bowden cable is going nowhere!

tomasrojo

Lumen wrote: »

Too right. The Bowden cable is going nowhere!

I have a bike (and spare tubes for a trailer) with Woods valves.