Irish Citizen using a non Irish Passport

Under His Eye

Is it legal for an Irish Citizen that has citizenship of a 2nd country to use that 2nd passport to enter Ireland.


I am aware the US requires US citizens only to use their US passport to enter the US. Does Ireland have any such rules in place?

Caranica

Under His Eye wrote: »

Is it legal for an Irish Citizen that has citizenship of a 2nd country to use that 2nd passport to enter Ireland.


I am aware the US requires US citizens only to use their US passport to enter the US. Does Ireland have any such rules in place?

Friend is dual Australian Irish citizen. Was waiting for new Irish passport to arrive and travelled on Australian one. Got bawled out of it on arrival back to Dublin for attempting to enter Ireland on a passport other than their Irish one. Was told never to do it again

coylemj

Caranica wrote: »

Friend is dual Australian Irish citizen. Was waiting for new Irish passport to arrive and travelled on Australian one. Got bawled out of it on arrival back to Dublin for attempting to enter Ireland on a passport other than their Irish one. Was told never to do it again

How the agent know your friend had dual-citizenship? I assume they handed over their Australian passport - was the lack of a tourist visa to enter Ireland the reason why they disclosed they also held an (expired) Irish passport?

Under His Eye

It is generally the place of Birth that gives the game away.

Pauliedragon

Caranica wrote: »

Friend is dual Australian Irish citizen. Was waiting for new Irish passport to arrive and travelled on Australian one. Got bawled out of it on arrival back to Dublin for attempting to enter Ireland on a passport other than their Irish one. Was told never to do it again

Surely if the passport is valid it doesn't matter. My irish passport expires next month I'm thinking of heading away for a few days in October I was just gonna use my Aussie one. I paid enough for it.

Under His Eye

Caranica wrote: »

Friend is dual Australian Irish citizen. Was waiting for new Irish passport to arrive and travelled on Australian one. Got bawled out of it on arrival back to Dublin for attempting to enter Ireland on a passport other than their Irish one. Was told never to do it again

Is there any basis in law for this?

wexie

Under His Eye wrote: »

It is generally the place of Birth that gives the game away.

I would imagine a sizable portion of the people that have dual Irish/other citizenship would have a place of birth outside the country no?

My wife does anyways.

Under His Eye

I am talking about someone born in Ireland using a non Irish passport.

coylemj

Under His Eye wrote: »

I am talking about someone born in Ireland using a non Irish passport.

I can't find anything on www.passport.ie or www.inis.gov.ie website to indicate that there is such a definite rule for people arriving to Ireland who have dual citizenship.

muminpajamas

Who is the right person to call about this for a definitive answer? One of my kids is travelling on a foreign passport but has her foreign birth registration certificate from the DFA with her to show she is Irish. We couldn't even get an appointment for her to apply for an Irish passport (booked solid for two months) so can't see how it is her fault. Her foreign passport arrived in 10 days.

glen123

Ideally one would need to get Stamp 6 into their non-EU passport:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Without_Condition_Endorsement%20%28Stamp%206%29

This allows the person to use their non-EU passport to leave and enter Ireland.

I'd say you'll be fine when you arrive in Ireland. The immigration may give out a bit but I am sure they'll allow you to enter the country.

Not sure if you are arriving into Dublin airport, but here is the telephone number for Immigration at terminal 2 at Dublin Airport 01 666 4968. You can try giving them a call to see what they say.

muminpajamas

glen123 wrote: »

Ideally one would need to get Stamp 6 into their non-EU passport:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/Without_Condition_Endorsement%20%28Stamp%206%29

This allows the person to use their non-EU passport to leave and enter Ireland.

I'd say you'll be fine when you arrive in Ireland. The immigration may give out a bit but I am sure they'll allow you to enter the country.

Not sure if you are arriving into Dublin airport, but here is the telephone number for Immigration at terminal 2 at Dublin Airport 01 666 4968. You can try giving them a call to see what they say.

I'll try giving them a call tomorrow morning. Thanks. 😊

EdgeCase

Only issue I could see is if you enter on a passport that would need a visa for beyond 90 days and then didn't leave again.

So for example, your Aussie passport would grant you 90 days visa waiver to enter Ireland for tourism or business trip purposes. That passport would be logged with the Irish border control but you'd never show up as leaving again.

As far as they're concerned they were presented with an Australian passport, so they could not be sure what your Irish citizenship status is. Maybe you renounced it.

If they store your place of birth too, they would know you're likely a dual citizen but you may not be.

Entering the Schengen area on a non EU passport and then leaving on an Irish one could also cause issues and probably more serious ones should you subsequently present the Australian passport again and it looks like you've overstayed.

It's probably not illegal but you're definitely creating additional headaches if you're entering for a protracted period.

With EU passport into the EU or Irish into UK / UK into Ireland it isn't really an issue at all but for anywhere else, you should enter and leave on the same document for continuity.

It is definitely illegal to enter the US on a foreign passport if you're a dual US national but I've never heard of anything specific here.

newirishman

In general, you must always present yourself to authorities of your country as a citizen of that country. You also can’t commit a crime in your home country and then flee to your other country’s embassy. You can’t enter your home country using your passport from another country. Doing these things might(will?) have serious legal consequences.
The above is as far as I know pretty much true for any country accepting dual citizenship. Can’t find legislation after a quick search but usually it is found as part of the legislation governing dual citizenship.
Note: dual citizenship is not allowed by all countries. There are quite a few that will automatically revoke it if you get citizenship from another country.

fleet

EdgeCase wrote: »

So for example, your Aussie passport would grant you 90 days visa waiver to enter Ireland for tourism or business trip purposes. That passport would be logged with the Irish border control but you'd never show up as leaving again.

...
With EU passport into the EU or Irish into UK / UK into Ireland it isn't really an issue at all but for anywhere else, you should enter and leave on the same document for continuity.

I don't believe you the Irish authorities record non nationals leaving the country, only entering.

That's one of the reasons for the Orwelian grilling you get on arrival even for "visa on arrival" country's citizens. They want to be sure you'll leave, but they'll never know for sure.

I stand to be corrected on this.

If you've ever had the pleasure of dealing with the boys and girls in Burgh Quay you'll understand this is the least of the Byzantine quirks.

GerardKeating

EdgeCase wrote: »

So for example, your Aussie passport would grant you 90 days visa waiver to enter Ireland for tourism or business trip purposes. That passport would be logged with the Irish border control but you'd never show up as leaving again.

But Ireland does not realy do EXIT immigraton checks, so a lot of the time, they would not know when people leave, just enter.

c6ysaphjvqw41k

This post has been deleted.

Under His Eye

You have to leave the US on the US passport. That's the law.

If you presented an Irish passport to check in, you would get loads of guff about no entry stamp etc.

Coming back into Ireland, you really should be entering on your Irish passport.

There is no law says you have to that we know of.

Ireland does not record exits.

Bob24

Brayson Noisy Handle wrote: »

But then shouldn't you enter on the same passport you left with i.e. the US one?

No, you can enter with any passport you want.

Why would Ireland systematically share with the US the detail of of the passport you used to cross the Irish border anyway? (or the other way around)

(Also as far as I know neither Ireland nor the US do passport check when you are leaving anyway)

Under His Eye

The airlines in the US send CBP details of people leaving. This is then matched to entry data so length of stay can be calculated.

yenom

There's no problem with it. I know of people who have travelled home on UK passports with an Irish place of birth.

Depending in the queue in passport control on Dublin airport depends on what passport I use.
Never had a problem

Under His Eye

I am thinking more exotic passports.

antoinolachtnai

You should not do it because presenting a non Irish passport is seeking a status that you are not entitled to. It is a false pretense. It is an abuse of the non-Irish passport.

Under His Eye

How?

antoinolachtnai

Under His Eye wrote: »

How?

You are claiming the support of a foreign government which you are not entitled to and do not have.

It is not likely to be a big issue but it is very bad practice. In principle the official could decide to confiscate the passport, which would be a big pain.

Bob24

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You are claiming the support of a foreign government which you are not entitled to and do not have.

You are entitled to the support of both countries you are a citizen of. Ireland might or might not want to facilitate diplomatic support by a foreign governement to a dual Irish citizen while in the State, but that citizen is definitely benefiting of diplomatic support from their other country of citizenship.

splinter65

Under His Eye wrote: »

Is it legal for an Irish Citizen that has citizenship of a 2nd country to use that 2nd passport to enter Ireland.


I am aware the US requires US citizens only to use their US passport to enter the US. Does Ireland have any such rules in place?

No.

splinter65

Caranica wrote: »

Friend is dual Australian Irish citizen. Was waiting for new Irish passport to arrive and travelled on Australian one. Got bawled out of it on arrival back to Dublin for attempting to enter Ireland on a passport other than their Irish one. Was told never to do it again

Rubbish.

Caranica

splinter65 wrote: »

Rubbish.

100% true! Maybe it was the agent he met but it absolutely happened

splinter65

Caranica wrote: »

100% true! Maybe it was the agent he met but it absolutely happened

No it didn’t.
You arrive in Ireland in possession of a valid in date passport issued by a country whose citizens don’t require a visa to enter Ireland. You show your passport and you enter.

Caranica

splinter65 wrote: »

No it didn’t.
You arrive in Ireland in possession of a valid in date passport issued by a country whose citizens don’t require a visa to enter Ireland. You show your passport and you enter.

He met an agent who read him the riot act. Whether you believe that or not doesn't mean it didn't happen.

GerardKeating

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You should not do it because presenting a non Irish passport is seeking a status that you are not entitled to. It is a false pretense. It is an abuse of the non-Irish passport.

INIS provide a "Stamp 6" visa on foreign passports for dual citizens, whom want to use their "other" passport to enter the country, so it is certinaly not forbidden.

Technically Irish Citizens do not need a passport to enter the country

Trasna1

Bob24 wrote: »

You are entitled to the support of both countries you are a citizen of. Ireland might or might not want to facilitate diplomatic support by a foreign governement to a dual Irish citizen while in the State, but that citizen is definitely benefiting of diplomatic support from their other country of citizenship.

You are not entitled to diplomatic support from Ireland if you have a passport of the country you are in difficulty in. It's a rule not always adhered to, one dual national got support from the DFA when in in trouble in Egypt, despite also being an Egyptian citizen.

Bob24

Trasna1 wrote: »

You are not entitled to diplomatic support from Ireland if you have a passport of the country you are in difficulty in. It's a rule not always adhered to, one dual national got support from the DFA when in in trouble in Egypt, despite also being an Egyptian citizen.

There is no such rule, as your second point illustrates (a rule "not always adhered to" is not a rule, at most it is a policy of some countries but there is no legal basis or global recognition for it).

You are always entitled to diplomatic support from both countries you are a national of regardless of where you are. But as I was saying of course when you are in one of your counties of citizenship you are also answerable for your actions in front of the government of that country, which has no obligation to facilitate diplomatic support your other country might want to provide. This doesn't mean your are not entitled for that support, just than it is not being facilitated and that in parallel of the support you might receive from one country you are also answerable in front of of the authorities of another country as a citizen and they are treating you as such.

Borzoi

Under His Eye wrote: »

I am aware the US requires US citizens only to use their US passport to enter the US. Does Ireland have any such rules in place?

Got a link to back that up?

Under His Eye

Absolutely. https://uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/u-s-passports/u-s-passport-faqs/u-s-citizenship/

I am a U.S. citizen, but also have a foreign passport. Can I travel to the United States on the foreign passport?

No. U.S. citizens must enter and leave the United States on valid U.S. passports, even if they hold a passport from another country. If your U.S. passport has been lost or stolen, or if it has expired, you must apply to replace it before travelling to the United States.

EdgeCase

I know entering the US on a foreign passport can cause some serious issues. A friend of mine became French and, due to tax issues and also just having grown weary of being associated with Donald Trump's nut job politics, she renounced her US citizenship, but obviously her French passport still says

"Lieu de naissance : Texas, les États-Unis d'Amérique / Texas, United States of America" so the border guards invariable question her and ask her why she's not using a US passport. In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

Under His Eye

EdgeCase wrote: »

I know entering the US on a foreign passport can cause some serious issues. A friend of mine became French and, due to tax issues and also just having grown weary of being associated with Donald Trump's nut job politics, she renounced her US citizenship, but obviously her French passport still says

"Lieu de naissance : Texas, les États-Unis d'Amérique / Texas, United States of America" so the border guards invariable question her and ask her why she's not using a US passport. In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

Renounce US Citizenship and you effectively become persona non grata.

EdgeCase

Under His Eye wrote: »

Renounce US Citizenship and you effectively become persona non grata.

Which is a tad ridiculous to put it mildly. If they didn't insist on looking for tax returns from people who've nothing to do with the US, they might avoid some of this stuff.

Bob24

EdgeCase wrote: »

In one case she was more or less called a traitor and given a load of attitude about "throwing away her American citizenship."

If this is how it was expressed to her by the border control officer, it’s quite ridiculous indeed.

I know quite a few Chinese people who renounced their citizenship after becoming Irish. And while China doesn’t accept dual-citizenship, as long as your are upfront about it and tell the embassy you have acquired another citizenship, they don’t seem to give people any crap at the border for renouncing their Chinese citizenship. I’ve heard a story of someone having a hard time because they tried to exit China with a Chinese passport and an Irish Stamp 6, and the border guy knew it meant dual citizenship, but it was that person acting stupid. I know quite many others who did things by the books and no one reported being abused at the border.

GSRNBP

EdgeCase wrote: »

Which is a tad ridiculous to put it mildly. If they didn't insist on looking for tax returns from people who've nothing to do with the US, they might avoid some of this stuff.

I'm a dual Irish/US citizen and I've been travelling back and forth multiple times a year for over a decade (as an adult tax-payer) and I've literally never once been asked about my tax affairs or had to prove anything in relation to tax.

Under His Eye

Do you file a 1040 every year?

Cookie_Monster

I've got both an Irish and nz passport but would never use the nz one coming into Ireland or any other eu country. why would you, the queues alone make it pointless. Have travelled into nz on the Irish one though and they don't give a monkeys

Bob24

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I've got both an Irish and nz passport but would never use the nz one coming into Ireland or any other eu country. why would you, the queues alone make it pointless. Have travelled into nz on the Irish one though and they don't give a monkeys

Yeah I guess it's more for holders of other EU citizenships who don't want to carry 2 documents with them when they travel.

I have another EU citizenship and it was especially true before we had passport cards here in Ireland: my other EU ID card would fit in my wallet but the Irish passport wouldn't, so I wasn't using my Irish passport to travel within Europe and hence entering Ireland with my other EU ID card when returning to Ireland.

There could also be circumstances where you need to travel on your other document for legal reasons. For example if you are travelling with a non-EU family member who holds a Stamp 4 EU Fam they get visa free access to the EU but only as long as you are travelling with them as an EU but non Irish citizen (there are exceptions whereby it would be OK to be Irish, but that is the general rule).

But those are really first world problems :-)

XVII

If a country officially recognises dual citizenship, you can enter it as a national of another country.
Ireland does recognise it, so it should be possible to enter as national of another country, even if you possess Irish citizenship. This is the definition of dual citizenship basically.

US don't officially recognise it, so that's why you have to enter as US national.

Is this not the way it always was?

Bob24

XVII wrote: »

If a country officially recognises dual citizenship, you can enter it as a national of another country.
Ireland does recognise it, so it should be possible to enter as national of another country, even if you possess Irish citizenship. This is the definition of dual citizenship basically.

US don't officially recognise it, so that's why you have to enter as US national.

Is this not the way it always was?

To my knowledge the US recognise dual citizenship no problem (as opposed to China for exemple which will force you to renounce your Chinese citizenship if you acquired another one). BUT when you enter the country they require that you identify yourself as a US citizen, which is different. I am not sure whether Ireland has a similar requirement but in practice it was never an issue for me to enter with ID documents from another European country (and I would actually be curious to know if their system pointing out to them that I am an Irish citizen when a border control officer scans my other ID document).

Borzoi

Under His Eye wrote: »

Absolutely. https://uk.usembassy.gov/u-s-citizen-services/u-s-passports/u-s-passport-faqs/u-s-citizenship/

thanks. thats a rule I've broken on many occasions. without any consequences

Carawaystick

yenom wrote: »

There's no problem with it. I know of people who have travelled home on UK passports with an Irish place of birth.

Like Derry?

seagull

South Africa accept dual nationality, but the rules state you must enter and exit with your SA passport. My brother hasn't ever bothered getting a SA passport, so he's broken the rules however many times with no issue as yet.

GSRNBP

Under His Eye wrote: »

Do you file a 1040 every year?

Yes and a 2555.