Run for your life!!!!

eyrie

Fingers crossed for Wednesday K.

Huzzah!

Good luck today, K.

coogy

Thanks everyone! Will report back with a full update later!!!

Rossi7

I'm going to go all in on weak glutes, best of luck

coogy

Physio session last night.

Within moments of me walking into the treatment room, and before asking me a single question, he told me he could see part of the problem already: posture.

Back to that in a minute.

Feet- quite heavy pronation going on. The knock-on effect this can have on your joints took me a little by surprise, especially the impact it can have on the knees/hips.
He focused first on the pain I had previously been experiencing in my ankle and suggested that the knee trouble more than likely stemmed from that. The issue is all focused on the left knee but thankfully there's no major cause for alarm.
I won't even try to remember the names of the various muscles he was throwing at me but he gave my legs a right good workout, pulling in all sorts of directions - a little painful but in a good way- and recommended a series of rolling and stretching exercises to factor into my weekly schedule.
He also recommended using orthotics which I reckon would make a huge difference.....bloody pricey though!!!

Anyway, for the next three days, I need to just roll and stretch (30-40 minute sessions) and on Sunday I can try out a few miles and see how I get on.

Back to the posture issue. This is something I have been vaguely aware of for a long time but I never considered that it may be having a detrimental effect on my running. Sitting at a desk for about 90% of my working day certainly does not help.
At least I know that there are things I can do to gradually put things right..

Here's hoping.

eyrie

Good to hear there's nothing majorly terrible or unfixable! Hopefully the tester run on Sunday goes well

coogy

Thanks C!

BrownEyes79

Glad to see you got out today... hopefully you’ll be back on plan very soon

coogy

BrownEyes79 wrote: »

Glad to see you got out today... hopefully you’ll be back on plan very soon

Thanks C. Felt good to get out but kind of knew within a few minutes that I need to be a bit more patient. Still managed the few miles in relatively little discomfort.....

coogy

So, after a week of zero running, I fully expected to be climbing the walls in frustration but the longer-than-usual stretching/rolling sessions had me focused on the bigger picture.
Throughout the week, even when walking, I could still 'feel' the knee giving out which didn't exactly fill me with much optimism. Still, I had today marked down as "the day" so I would just have to see how it went.
The run on the plan had '2 hour 15 mins easy' but that was absolutely out of the question. Missing two consecutive 2 hour + runs is a hard pill to swallow but I just had to accept it and figured the alternative (aggravating the injury) was not an option.
Kept it nice and easy today (mostly on grass) and it wasnt too long before that dull ache returned, although nowhere near as bad as last week and I told myself I would stop if I felt it becoming unmanageable.
Three miles was as much as I would allow myself and knew it would be just the right distance for me to gauge the situation.

That said, after mile 2 I was starting to feel good and thought about doing 5 miles instead of 3 but common sense prevailed.
Stretched and rolled for about 30 mins after the run which is now the norm for me, have been neglecting this side of running for way too long.

Now, back to important matters.....the plan.
Have missed the guts of 60 miles of running since last week. There's nothing I can do about that now but if I miss another week, I'm going to have to ask myself some serious questions.
Won't be here for Kilcock 10 so it was my plan to give the Frank Duffy 10 mile a bash, ideally with a view to racing it but will have to see.
As for the ol' marathon itself, what I'm not sure of is (I may need some level of guidance on this) whether missing last week's long run and all of this week will require some sort of re-assesment in terms of goals etc. This conundrum may be easier to answer depending on how the week ahead goes.

Any thoughts/ advice / suggestions welcome!


In more positive news, my little sprinter is keeping the flag flying high by finishing in an impressive 14th place ouf of 183 at this morning's Junior Parkrun. I was on barcode scanning duties and was amazed to look up and see him standing in front of me at the top of the queue with his finishers token showing 14th place.

Thanks for reading!

skyblue46

No need to change goals yet. If you have a niggle that loses you a week or so there's no big worry. You're not into a range where you'll lose much, if anything, in terms of fitness.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

No need to change goals yet. If you have a niggle that loses you a week or so there's no big worry. You're not into a range where you'll lose much, if anything, in terms of fitness.

Thanks S.
I know it sounds drastic but I was picturing worst case scenario (missing DCM) and I was surprisingly unmoved at the prospect.
The thought of missing a build-up race (Frank Duffy or Ratoath) was upsetting me more.........


I mustn't be well.....

Murph_D

I’d be a little sceptical about some of the stuff the physio threw at you. For a start there’s no evidence that overpronation leads to injury or affects performance - lots of elite runners have the issue. And as for orthotics - if the idea is to correct the pronation, don’t see how it’s much better than a support shoe.

As for the desk issue - is a standing desk an option?

coogy

Murph_D wrote: »

I’d be a little sceptical about some of the stuff the physio threw at you. For a start there’s no evidence that overpronation leads to injury or affects performance - lots of elite runners have the issue. And as for orthotics - if the idea is to correct the pronation, don’t see how it’s much better than a support shoe.

As for the desk issue - is a standing desk an option?

TBH I probably didn't ask enough questions so did come away scratching my head a little.

After this morning's failed attempt, it looks like this could be more of a long term problem than I feared. Won't be in a position to return to the physio for another couple of weeks, unless I try the College Physio. Have you ever used them?

Kellygirl

coogy wrote: »

TBH I probably didn't ask enough questions so did come away scratching my head a little.

After this morning's failed attempt, it looks like this could be more of a long term problem than I feared. Won't be in a position to return to the physio for another couple of weeks, unless I try the College Physio. Have you ever used them?

If it was me I think I’d try a second opinion to be honest. Is the College Physio a sports physio?

OOnegative

Murph_D wrote: »

And as for orthotics - if the idea is to correct the pronation, don’t see how it’s much better than a support shoe.

Agree 100% with this, I know for a fact some physio’s get few quid commission for orthotics if ordered through them. Like K i’d be seeking a second opinion also.

coogy

Kellygirl wrote: »

If it was me I think I’d try a second opinion to be honest. Is the College Physio a sports physio?

Hi K,


yes they deal with sports-related injuries among other things. Tried them before but didn't really rate them, that was a few years back though. Might get lucky this time. :rolleyes:

Need to nip this in the bud!

Kellygirl

coogy wrote: »

Hi K,


yes they deal with sports-related injuries among other things. Tried them before but didn't really rate them, that was a few years back though. Might get lucky this time. :rolleyes:

Need to nip this in the bud!

Hmmmm - it’s a hard one. I spent a fortune on a quack a few years ago. I thought all physios were useless for a while after seeing a few bad ones. Get a few recommendations I think and see the right person maybe ... unless the college physio is super cheap or something and worth a gamble?

coogy

Kellygirl wrote: »

Hmmmm - it’s a hard one. I spent a fortune on a quack a few years ago. I thought all physios were useless for a while after seeing a few bad ones. Get a few recommendations I think and see the right person maybe ... unless the college physio is super cheap or something and worth a gamble?

Yes, they are slightly cheaper than most and I can arrange for the money to be deducted from my wages too which is kind of handy.

It's can be an expensive business alright!


Edit: appointment made for tomorrow morning!!

coogy

Just back from physio.

Things didn't get off to an ideal start when I realised that I was running late for my appointment and had about three minutes to get changed, sprint across the road, into the main campus of Trinity and down to the Physio. As I ran (reasonably fast), I noticed that my knee was not giving me any problems.....typical!! :rolleyes:

Anyway, was just a couple of minutes late and when I eventually caught my breath I gave her the lowdown followed by a brief background on what I've been doing running-wise for the last couple of years. When I stood, she asked me to balance on each foot and she could see that my left side was noticeably weaker than the right and identified some little habits she could see regarding my posture/stance and suggested specific exercises I can be doing through the day to correct this. After this she went through some specific exercises for me to be doing on a daily basis for the coming weeks and months.

As for the knee itself, she said it's definitely the IT band that's the problem and for the last 10/15 mins she gave my IT band a really deep massage. She used so much pressure, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry but I knew it was working wonders.

Then the burning question, when can I start running again???? She recommended daily stretches and specific exercises for the next few days and on Saturday I should do an easy 5k. If I feel ok, the next day I can increase the distance to a 7 or 8k easy run and again on Monday and see how things are after that. If still feel uncomfortable, I should go back and see her next week.

Have to say, I came away feeling far more upbeat and confident than the previous appointment and it's enabled me to focus more clearly on the months ahead but I know it's still important to take things one day at a time.

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

Just back from physio.

Things didn't get off to an ideal start when I realised that I was running late for my appointment and had about three minutes to get changed, sprint across the road, into the main campus of Trinity and down to the Physio. As I ran (reasonably fast), I noticed that my knee was not giving me any problems.....typical!! :rolleyes:

Anyway, was just a couple of minutes late and when I eventually caught my breath I gave her the lowdown followed by a brief background on what I've been doing running-wise for the last couple of years. When I stood, she asked me to balance on each foot and she could see that my left side was noticeably weaker than the right and identified some little habits she could see regarding my posture/stance and suggested specific exercises I can be doing through the day to correct this. After this she went through some specific exercises for me to be doing on a daily basis for the coming weeks and months.

As for the knee itself, she said it's definitely the IT band that's the problem and for the last 10/15 mins she gave my IT band a really deep massage. She used so much pressure, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry but I knew it was working wonders.

Then the burning question, when can I start running again???? She recommended daily stretches and specific exercises for the next few days and on Saturday I should do an easy 5k. If I feel ok, the next day I can increase the distance to a 7 or 8k easy run and again on Monday and see how things are after that. If still feel uncomfortable, I should go back and see her next week.

Have to say, I came away feeling far more upbeat and confident than the previous appointment and it's enabled me to focus more clearly on the months ahead but I know it's still important to take things one day at a time.

Any mention of orthotics?

coogy

OOnegative wrote: »

Any mention of orthotics?

None whatsoever.

Dealerz2.0

sounds very positive ken

Damo 2k9

Exact same problem as me in 2017, and very same way of figuring what it was. Did she mention that it was your weak glute pulling on it?

Rossi7 was right!

coogy

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Exact same problem as me in 2017, and very same way of figuring what it was. Did she mention that it was your weak glute pulling on it?

Rossi7 was right!

Yeah, she sure did! How long were you sidelined as a matter of interest?

ariana`

I'd say you'll be hard pushed to find a runner who hasn't been effected by weak glutes :rolleyes: I had similar before DCM 2017 also. My Physio's favourite quote is "sitting is the new smoking". It's the curse of our generation with our predominantly sedentary jobs.

Best of luck with getting back on the road. I see lots of clams, lateral steps and glute bridges in your future

Damo 2k9

coogy wrote: »

Yeah, she sure did! How long were you sidelined as a matter of interest?

I wasn't sidelined at all, just very easy running if I am remembering correctly, it was a lot closer to the marathon tho, late September into October, and the ITB was in a very bad way when I got to a decent physio.

The difference the exercises and rolling made was unreal, keep them up religiously and you will notice the difference!

Murph_D

coogy wrote: »

TBH I probably didn't ask enough questions so did come away scratching my head a little.

After this morning's failed attempt, it looks like this could be more of a long term problem than I feared. Won't be in a position to return to the physio for another couple of weeks, unless I try the College Physio. Have you ever used them?

No experience with College physio - let me know how s/he is if you go there!

coogy

Murph_D wrote: »

No experience with College physio - let me know how s/he is if you go there!

I went this morning D.

Had been to see her once before, about 7 years ago when I first took up running and experienced similar issues. I wasn't quite as committed back then though.....:o

See post above for the verdict!

Kellygirl

That sounds more like it. Hopefully you get back on track soon.

Wubble Wubble

Sounds a bit like the problem I had between HM and DCM 2016. Best of luck. Keep us updated!

coogy

Saturday 10th August - Griffeen Parkrun

To say I was looking forward to this is something of an understatement. Had been really disciplined for the whole week, making sure that I followed the physio's advice to the letter. During the latter stages of the week, the niggly pain in the knee gradually started to feel less problematic which had me feeling good about my first outing in what seemed like forever.
There was a decent enough turnout at the parkrun and once we got going, I hung back towards the rear, making sure I kept things nice and easy. The relaxed pace (approx 9:20) made a nice change from busting a gut like I've usually done in my previous twenty parkruns and more importantly, the knee was feeling pretty good with only just the slightest trace of what I had been feeling before.
Not only that, but from the 2 mile stage onwards - especially at the finish - I fully appreciated what it truly means to some people just to complete a 5k, whatever the pace. Finished in 28:49 (couldn't resist sprinting the final 100 metres!).
I was so glad that I took things easy and I have the next few days to put things right before I can say with confidence that I feel back to 100%. Hopefully by Tuesday, I'll be raring to go and pick up where I left off.

Signed up yesterday for the Frank Duffy 10 mile, might do the Lucan Harriers 5k race next month too which finishes on their brand new running track, looks mightily impressive too!

That's it for now.......thanks for reading.

coogy

Sunday 11th August - 5 miles easy run. 5.02m @ 9.19


Still very much in the 'take it one day at a time' mode so I decided beforehand that 5 miles would be my limit today. The kniggles (see what I did there?) are still detectable but didn't really pose a problem.
During the run, I started to fret about the week ahead and the short amount of time I have to prepare for the Frank Duffy 10 mile. We're off to Manchester on Saturday for five days and although I'll be taking my running gear with me, we're staying in a Travelodge so I'm not that confident of getting any runs in at all. I already feel like I'm way behind where I should be and losing out on another few days of running would be a huge setback.
My options for this week are:

• Run according to the plan this week, sacrifice Saturday's 60 min easy run and hope that I can get out for Sunday's 90 min progression run while in Manchester.

OR

• Do all of this week's runs from Monday through Friday and have Saturday and Sunday off. Even at that, I would still have to try to get the following Tuesday and Wednesday's runs done while in Manchester.

The above is all dependant on how the knee is holding up of course.....:(

Worse case scenario, I'll just have to treat the FD race as an LSR.

On a more positive note, the swelling in the left ankle has completely disappeared.
And in other news, the speed demon continues to impress by finishing 9th in this morning's Junior Parkrun. I think it's a case of next stop: Lucan Harriers!!!!

Miles for the year: 977

Mr. Guappa

It's good to see you back K, and hopefully the knee behaves itself from now on.

I'd be pretty cautious with trying to do too much, and I wouldn't be a fan of diving straight back into the complete plan, and especially not running five consecutive days while you are still figuring out if the knee is 100%.

You could swap long runs, doing FD as the progression run and just do a regular long run this week? Assuming the knee is ok, I'd do the 20 mins threshold session on Tuesday, easy miles Wednesday, long run on Friday so that it's out of the way before Manchester, with a couple of easy days while in Manchester, if possible.

Enjoy the trip

coogy

Mr. Guappa wrote: »

I'd be pretty cautious with trying to do too much, and I wouldn't be a fan of diving straight back into the complete plan, and especially not running five consecutive days while you are still figuring out if the knee is 100%.

Thanks A. You have no idea how long my finger hovered over the 'Submit Reply' button before posting that. Of course, I know that running five consecutive days on the back of an injury is frankly ludicrous but my tendency to dismiss rational thought in the face of adversity is sometimes out of my control!!

I like the sound of your suggestion, appreciate your input!

coogy

Tuesday 13th August - 20 mins @ threshold (7:06 - 7:15). 2.81 m @ 7.07

Session runs at such an early hour have potential to be hit or miss I think, especially when it's a fasted run. Thankfully, I have been eating well and staying well hydrated and also seeing as it was only a 20 minute session, I felt like I was good to go and out the door before 6am. Started off with a 1 mile warm up down to Griffeen.

The threshold pace was done mostly on grass and obviously, given my knee issue, I was waiting for things to go belly up again. Thankfully, everything went off without a hitch and the knee gave no problems whatsoever, delighted. Perhaps during the first few minutes, the lack of regular running over the couple of weeks left me feeling a little sluggish but overall, I felt like I was well able to handle the pace.

Finished it off with another mile for the cool down.


Wednesday 14th August - 60 mins easy. 6.26 m @ 9.38

Another early one and not much to say about this 'meat and potatoes' easy run except the knee was still holding up really well.

Speaking of which, I have been thinking a lot about next week's FD race and I really feel like I should give it a shot. I am still going to go with Mr. G's suggestion of doing next week's lsr this Friday (I feel like I'd benefit from the extra mileage) and will do my best to fit in a couple of 60 min easy runs while in Manchester, before tapering ahead of the 10 miler next week.

That's where my head is at right now. I've been sensible enough up to this point and I wouldn't do anything rash if I thought there was a chance of suffering another setback. Will give it a bit more thought between today and tomorrow........

Hedgehoggy

coogy wrote: »

Session runs at such an early hour have potential to be hit or miss I think, especially when it's a fasted run.

Sessions in the morning are sooooo much harder

Glad to hear the knee is getting better

coogy

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Sessions in the morning are sooooo much harder

Glad to hear the knee is getting better

Thanks G!!

Damo 2k9

Whats the aim for Saturday? Do you think the injury has set you back considerably?

coogy

Damo 2k9 wrote: »

Whats the aim for Saturday? Do you think the injury has set you back considerably?

Well, my 10 mile pb is from last year's Irish Runner (1:18). I'm confident of bettering that time but as for my goal for Saturday.......I'm still undecided.
On one hand, l know for sure that a PB is likely but I think I'll have to see how this week goes before I settle on a target time.
Generally, I'm feeling good after the lay off but don't want to end back where I was if I push it too hard.
Will we see you on Saturday?

Damo 2k9

coogy wrote: »

Well, my 10 mile pb is from last year's Irish Runner (1:18). I'm confident of bettering that time but as for my goal for Saturday.......I'm still undecided.
On one hand, l know for sure that a PB is likely but I think I'll have to see how this week goes before I settle on a target time.
Generally, I'm feeling good after the lay off but don't want to end back where I was if I push it too hard.
Will we see you on Saturday?

Yeh, its trying to find the fine line between not bringing the niggle back vs. not wanting to go too easy, if that makes sense!!

You will indeed! Hopefully the wind isint too bad, can definitely get caught on Acres, Chesterfield and North Road.

coogy

Grads Intermediate plan, Week 4


Thursday 15th August - Rest day


Friday 16th August - 2hrs, 30 mins easy. 16.05m @ 9:21
With my longest run of 2019 so far, the only dilemma I had was whether to get up at 5am do it before I left the house for work or do it as a runmute. Chose the latter as it would give me an opportunity to get a decent hour or so around the Phoenix Park along the way.

Left the house to some light but steady rain which made a nice change.
In short, the run was really enjoyable, if not a little on the quick side in parts. The 8 miles or so around the PP was great. Felt a little tiredness towards the end but by no means out of gas. Most importantly, the knee was trouble free.

Oh yeah, passed the 1,000 miles for the year too!



Saturday 17th August -  Manchester bound



Sunday 18th August - 60 mins easy.  6.37m @ 9:32

Terrible night's sleep (I dread those Travelodge beds!) and found myself waking almost on the hour every hour so wasn't that difficult getting up at the crack of dawn. Thankfully, even though I wasn't exactly "quiet" when I left the room, everyone went straight back to sleep. 

Headed over to a beautiful location called Fletcher Moss- where the local Parkrun is held - a lovely wooded area with a really nice trail path around it. Had a few enjoyable laps of the perimeter before heading back to the hotel.


The week ahead: Here in Manchester till Wednesday so will get a tempo run and 60 mins easy run done while we're here before another easy run back home and then Frank Duffy 10 mile on Saturday to look forward to. 

Still undecided regarding goal time but I would like to think that a PB is on the cards. Will see how the week progresses.


Miles for the week - 36.8
Miles for the year - 1014



Thanks for reading!

skyblue46

Grab the bull by the horns. You have to find out how the training has improved you.

coogy

skyblue46 wrote: »

Grab the bull by the horns. You have to find out how the training has improved you.

You're right.S. No time like the present!

skyblue46

coogy wrote: »

You're right.S. No time like the present!

And the target is? (Drum roll..................)

Wubble Wubble

I meant to get in on this earlier. FWIW I think 1:18 is setting the bar way too low.

I think I'm a fairly good marker. Last year you were just behind me in the Ratoath HM, and you beat that time in Bohermeen earlier this year. Beat me in Docklands in June. So even with a bit of training missed, I think you should expect to be a lot closer to 1:10 than 1:18. Best of luck with whatever you decide

The Black Oil

Similar to yourself. Hope to knock some time off the 10 mile distance, whilst having been in physioland lately. Ran ~6 miles easy tonight, first run since Thursday. Hope to fire up the DeLorean on Saturday. I'd offer a spare flux capacitor, but doubt you need it.

coogy

S and J, I have just accidentally deleted a very long-winded response to you both so I will have to give you the potted version.....:rolleyes:

S, after this morning's run, I had allowed myself a target of anywhere between 1:10 and 1:15. I know for sure that come race day that I will be feeling more confident of getting closer to 70 mins. I have surprised myself on more than one occasion so hopefully I'll be going home a happy camper.

J, you're right, I need to set the bar much higher and yes, I had been inspired by your time in Kilcock last weekend! Perhaps reading the details of the various lags along the route had me second guessing myself.....just need to have more self belief!!

 

OOnegative

All the best tomorrow at the FD K, run well!!

Kellygirl

Best of luck tomorrow K.