Creche in Estate using communal area as play area

thomas 123

Captain Flaps wrote: »

I haven't been contemptuous at all, rather you've gone out of your way to assert that I am just a volunteer, marginally trained, all the rest. I have the utmost respect for childcare professionals as a general group, I just agree with OP that these particular ones don't seem to be acting professionally based on the evidence provided. I'd appreciate it if you could tone down the personal digs.

Op here - Just to clarify. I didn't say they were acting unprofessionally.

James Bond Junior

Akrasia wrote: »

I suggest you take it up with your school management if they think GDPR means the school needs consent forms for every individual activity outside school premises during the school year. GDPR doesn't prohibit schools from holding consent on file, it just means the school has to have facilities to allow parents to withdraw consent and prohibits automatic opt in clauses. The school could have a permission slip covering regular school activities for the year but parents could refuse consent for individual types of activity in which case the school would have to withdraw their signature and draw up a new consent form for them to sign

It is an issue that is arising not just in my school but in every other school in the country. GDPR training was held for principals across the country in April/May and this was an issue that arose. You seem hell bent on disputing this, it is fact. Do you work in education?

Captain Flaps

thomas 123 wrote: »

Op here - Just to clarify. I didn't say they were acting unprofessionally.

There I go attributing statements to you again! I just meant it seems unprofessional to take the kids into a public area during the day where they may cause nuisance. I'm sure they're taking great care of the kids.

ted1

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Akrasia wrote: »

I suggest you take it up with your school management if they think GDPR means the school needs consent forms for every individual activity outside school premises during the school year. GDPR doesn't prohibit schools from holding consent on file, it just means the school has to have facilities to allow parents to withdraw consent and prohibits automatic opt in clauses. The school could have a permission slip covering regular school activities for the year but parents could refuse consent for individual types of activity in which case the school would have to withdraw their signature and draw up a new consent form for them to sign

It is an issue that is arising not just in my school but in every other school in the country. GDPR training was held for principals across the country in April/May and this was an issue that arose. You seem hell bent on disputing this, it is fact. Do you work in education?

Who gave the training ? Their understanding of the regulation isn’t correct

Del2005

Del2005 wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is some of the worst advice I've seen given on this forum. The Gardaí aren't to be used for a few kids from a creche outside a home during the day. The OP has already started the correct process to get the issue resolved by contacting the MC and asking about the creches use of the green space.

Again, not saying to do it, just making the point that having a bunch of people outside your house making noise, regardless of age, IS a legitimate issue.

Bacchus

James Bond Junior wrote: »

It is an issue that is arising not just in my school but in every other school in the country. GDPR training was held for principals across the country in April/May and this was an issue that arose. You seem hell bent on disputing this, it is fact. Do you work in education?

I also dispute this application of GDPR. I'm not in education but I am a cyber-security expert working on a number of projects in which GDPR has had an impact, and what you are describing looks like a mis-interpretation of the legislation.

I can actually see the logic of how they came to the conclusion but it's a terrible interpretation of GDPR, and is massive waste of everyone's time to have to get consent slips for every trip when a single consent slip for the year could do.

pwurple

When did the Irish start getting so Brit-like in the hatred of children? I swear to god, anywhere else in Europe and people recognise and enjoy a bit of fun from kids. Here it's become all "Seen and not heard". 

I live directly behind a primary school and a creche, their play areas are on my boundary wall.  And I work from home sometimes.  I open up the windows and listen to them all day long. It's a joy and a privilege. If the sound of fun bothers you,close the damn windows.

pwurple

pwurple wrote: »

When did the Irish start getting so Brit-like in the hatred of children? I swear to god, anywhere else in Europe and people recognise and enjoy a bit of fun from kids. Here it's become all "Seen and not heard". 

I live directly behind a primary school and a creche, their play areas are on my boundary wall.  And I work from home sometimes.  I open up the windows and listen to them all day long. It's a joy and a privilege. If the sound of fun bothers you,close the damn windows.

Why is everyone supposed to like being annoyed by kids? Just because you like it doesn't mean others do, they are a nuisance for a lot of people. Making noise, hitting cars with balls and bikes, getting in the way etc etc etc. But parents are blind to this and think they are all "great".

I don't see why kids are allowed a free pass for their annoyance of others and then parents of said kids are the first to complain about a bit of noise at night on a rare occasion etc.

Its like the obsession some parents have of wanting to bring kids to weddings (and adding their names to rsvps even when they are specifically not invited) annoying everyone (including all the parents who just want a day away form their kids and have a good drink from themselves). There is nothing worse than the parents who give up on life and obsess over their kids once they have them.

James Bond Junior

Bacchus wrote: »

I also dispute this application of GDPR. I'm not in education but I am a cyber-security expert working on a number of projects in which GDPR has had an impact, and what you are describing looks like a mis-interpretation of the legislation.

I can actually see the logic of how they came to the conclusion but it's a terrible interpretation of GDPR, and is massive waste of everyone's time to have to get consent slips for every trip when a single consent slip for the year could do.

Couldn't agree more, school staff are annpyed about it but it is coming from the Department as far as I understand, not individual school management.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Again, not saying to do it, just making the point that having a bunch of people outside your house making noise, regardless of age, IS a legitimate issue.

What is the law which applies?

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What is the law which applies?

Couldn't tell you.. Which is probably one of the reasons why anti social behaviour is an issue in that never gets dealt with.


However, from Citizen's Information..

Part 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 provides for proceedings to be taken in Ireland against adults who engage in anti-social behaviour.



Anti-social behaviour by children is addressed in a separate section of the Act and the rules regarding anti-social behaviour orders for children are different to the anti-social behaviour orders (ASBOs) for adults.


The section of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 dealing with ASBOs for adults came into effect on 1 January 2007.


These provisions allow gardaí to deal with anti-social behaviour by adults through a civil process using behaviour warnings and orders. Failure to comply with a behaviour order is a criminal matter.

Hence, if you have a bunch of babies/children/teens/adults/OAPs outside your house causing a nuisance, the Gardai will respond.

A Shaved Duck?

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

Why is everyone supposed to like being annoyed by kids? Just because you like it doesn't mean others do, they are a nuisance for a lot of people. Making noise, hitting cars with balls and bikes, getting in the way etc etc etc. But parents are blind to this and think they are all "great".

I don't see why kids are allowed a free pass for their annoyance of others and then parents of said kids are the first to complain about a bit of noise at night on a rare occasion etc.

Its like the obsession some parents have of wanting to bring kids to weddings (and adding their names to rsvps even when they are specifically not invited) annoying everyone (including all the parents who just want a day away form their kids and have a good drink from themselves). There is nothing worse than the parents who give up on life and obsess over their kids once they have them.

We get it..you dont like kids.

ted1

Deleted User wrote: »

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What is the law which applies?

Couldn't tell you.. Which is probably one of the reasons why anti social behaviour is an issue in that never gets dealt with.


However, from Citizen's Information..

Part 11 of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 provides for proceedings to be taken in Ireland against adults who engage in anti-social behaviour.



Anti-social behaviour by children is addressed in a separate section of the Act and the rules regarding anti-social behaviour orders for children are different to the anti-social behaviour orders (ASBOs) for adults.


The section of the Criminal Justice Act 2006 dealing with ASBOs for adults came into effect on 1 January 2007.


These provisions allow gardaí to deal with anti-social behaviour by adults through a civil process using behaviour warnings and orders. Failure to comply with a behaviour order is a criminal matter.

Hence, if you have a bunch of babies/children/teens/adults/OAPs outside your house causing a nuisance, the Gardai will respond.

Kids playing in a common area isn’t anti social

_Brian

beechwood55 wrote: »

Excellent!

I appreciate it was an inconvenience for OP but only in Ireland where we are destined to become the fattest nation in Europe would people celebrate stopping children getting outside for exercise and play and confining them to indoors instead.

fallen01angel

_Brian wrote: »

I appreciate it was an inconvenience for OP but only in Ireland where we are destined to become the fattest nation in Europe would people celebrate stopping children getting outside for exercise and play and confining them to indoors instead.

No one has issues with a couple of kids playing in their estate, the issue is a creche is using common ground for their charges to play,apparently they do have a play area attached to the creche so let them keep the pounds off there.....it's not Op's responsibility to worry about kids (other than his own) getting fat.

josip

OP, I don't really have a side I'd take on this one.
I work from home a lot, work from various locations abroad, campsites and even worse.
I was once dragged into a concall while I was checking out beer bottles in Prague supermarket.
The clink-clink-beep, clink-clink-beeps got a few laughs on that call.


Currently myself and my wife are both in Italy working from a bedroom in her parents apartment over the summer.
There's no aircon so we usually have the windows open for some airflow.
This year however a neighbour is renovating, so when my wife's on calls (4 hours a day) we have to close the windows and sweat it out.
The sparrows are noisy buggers also and I reckon we'd have to close the windows for them anyway.

Still it's our choice to do this and we're ok with the minor discomfort because the pros outweigh the cons for us.
I appreciate that for you, it may be a different situation with different options/pros/cons.


How long do you think the creche will have the kids outside?
Worst case scenario that I would expect will be the end of September with maybe a couple of days in October?

There will certainly be some wet days in between where they can't go out.
Many creches are at half capacity over the summers as kids go on holidays with their parents so would the noise levels drop?
Perhaps this is a short-term problem that will dissolve with the Irish weather?

seagull

If I were a resident in that estate, I would also be contacting the management agent to check on insurance in the case of one of the children having an accident. I wouldn't want to be paying more in management fees because the insurance costs have just rocketed due to a claim. I suspect that the creche's insurance doesn't cover daily trips like this.

The creche has outdoor facilities. Let them use that
If children are obese, that's their parents' fault, nothing to do with the OP

Gatling

seagull wrote: »

If I were a resident in that estate, I would also be contacting the management agent to check on insurance in the case of one of the children having an accident. I wouldn't want to be paying more in management fees because the insurance costs have just rocketed due to a claim. I suspect that the creche's insurance doesn't cover daily trips like this.

Crèche insurance do and would cover play outside ,
If a child is playing ball on a common green should you be Ringing the insurance to make sure it's allowed .

I'm actually surprised by a lot of time comments on this thread ,
Seems people have serious issues with children playing outside these are 3-4 year olds enjoying some outdoor time and nothing more.

There not a group of anti social yobs running amok .

Babies

A Shaved Duck?

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

We get it..you dont like kids.

I don’t, I hate arrogant parents and in general people who expect other to make special allowances for their kids and put up with them when they are annoying others. There is a big big difference.

Mrs OBumble

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hence, if you have a bunch of babies/children/teens/adults/OAPs outside your house causing a nuisance, the Gardai will respond.

If you call the guards to complain about a bunch of pre-schoolers playing outside your house in the daytime under the supervision of creche staff, their response will be to laugh and add your number to their crank caller list.

Eggs For Dinner

Gatling wrote:

Crèche insurance do and would cover play outside , If a child is playing ball on a common green should you be Ringing the insurance to make sure it's allowed .

It is likely the Insurance only covers outdoor activities within the private area of the crèche unless there is a specific arrangement made. Also, insurers for the Management Company should not discuss cover with individual members, only the nominated contact

astrofool

Eggs For Dinner wrote: »

It is likely the Insurance only covers outdoor activities within the private area of the crèche unless there is a specific arrangement made. Also, insurers for the Management Company should not discuss cover with individual members, only the nominated contact

That is unlikely for a creche, most of which will organise trips to public parks and recreation areas.

Ultimately it's a communal outdoor area, so it will get used, unless the residents get together, gate and keycard it, then any group can come in and use it.

astrofool

astrofool wrote: »

That is unlikely for a creche, most of which will organise trips to public parks and recreation areas.

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either. A creche will be very secure from both kids getting out and people getting in, you lose all that safety if you leave the grounds.

I think one poster made this statement earlier that they have to be buzzed in to collect their child and would be very unhappy to find out kids were being brought to outside public places.

Gatling

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either. A creche will be very secure from both kids getting out and people getting in, you lose all that safety if you leave the grounds.

I think one poster made this statement earlier that they have to be buzzed in to collect their child and would be very unhappy to find out kids were being brought to outside public places.

You do realise crèche regularly get out and about ,a child care facilities should be secure but plenty of childcare centers use public park's accessable to all ,
The crèche here isn't doing anything wrong unless someone has information to show that's not true.

josip

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either. A creche will be very secure from both kids getting out and people getting in, you lose all that safety if you leave the grounds.

I think one poster made this statement earlier that they have to be buzzed in to collect their child and would be very unhappy to find out kids were being brought to outside public places.

When our son was in a creche they used to regularly go to the local library and local park, at Christmas time they'd bring presents to a retirement home and sing.

ted1

ted1 wrote: »

Kids playing in a common area isn’t anti social

I would consider it to be anti-social behaviour, depending on the circumstances.


I'd consider any deliberately noisy event going on outside my house on a daily basis anti social. Unless this was the case long before the OP moved into the area, then the OP should be entitled to enjoy a peaceful day without the noise of a creche at his front gate.


In my opinion, anyway.


As I say, any creches in estates that I see, have their own cordoned off area and are away from others behind fencing etc. to keep them in. Im surprised this isn't the case here and would argue bad planning.


(or if there is a play area, but the creche are using a green area instead, then id fall back into agreeing with anti social behaviour).




How would you feel if i ran my curry business on the green area outside your house? Would that smell being there for hours each day be acceptable?

astrofool

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either. A creche will be very secure from both kids getting out and people getting in, you lose all that safety if you leave the grounds.

I think one poster made this statement earlier that they have to be buzzed in to collect their child and would be very unhappy to find out kids were being brought to outside public places.

I think you have a very strange idea of how a typical creche operates. It's not the carefree 80's, but kids aren't hermetically sealed away from the outside world either.

Mrs OBumble

astrofool wrote: »

... unless the residents get together, gate and keycard it, then any group can come in and use it.

Even then, I bet at least one parent (probably more) of a kid in the creche is a resident and would be happy to share their keycard ...

John_Rambo

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either.

You would have thought wrong (again) but in fairness, you're consistently wrong when talking about subjects you have no clue or experience about like creches, property, being a landlord, kids etc...

A lot of creches will organise excursions to parks, beaches, libraries, old folks homes, galleries, arts and crafts centres, play centres, farms, factories etc.. The older kids have to pack suncream, raingear, wellies, change of clothes, packed lunches. Parents sign permission forms, allergy lists etc...

It's extremely common (not rare), and parents are very happy with it (not unhappy).

A Shaved Duck?

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I don’t, I hate arrogant parents and in general people who expect other to make special allowances for their kids and put up with them when they are annoying others. There is a big big difference.

So you hate people.. people are kids

ergo ..you hate kids.