Creche in Estate using communal area as play area

Graham

A Shaved Duck? wrote: »

So you hate people.. people are kids

ergo ..you hate kids.

Mod Note

Improve the standard of your posts or stop posting.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

You would have thought wrong (again) but in fairness, you're consistently wrong when talking about subjects you have no clue or experience about like creches, property, being a landlord, kids etc...

A lot of creches will organise excursions to parks, beaches, libraries, old folks homes, galleries, arts and crafts centres, play centres, farms, factories etc.. The older kids have to pack suncream, raingear, wellies, change of clothes, packed lunches. Parents sign permission forms, allergy lists etc...

It's extremely common (not rare), and parents are very happy with it (not unhappy).

I would have thought it’s a reasonable assumption to assume a creche looks after kids on the grounds of the creche the vast majority of the time similar to how kids stay on school grounds in primary school the vast majority of the time, even more so for a creche due to the difficulty in looking after smaller kids.

I have never been in a creche nor have any close family members as all childminding was and still is done by grandparents or by other family members in my extended family but I have been in primary school where we probably left school grounds once every few months to play a match and one school tour per year. The main exception being communion year where we would have gone to the church regularly. But you are much older and easier to manage at this stage compared to a 1 to 3 year old in a creche, many of whom would be on a lead when with their own parents never mind how a creche worker looks after many to each worker.

josip

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought it’s a reasonable assumption to assume a creche looks after kids on the grounds of the creche the vast majority of the time similar to how kids stay on school grounds in primary school the vast majority of the time, even more so for a creche due to the difficulty in looking after smaller kids.

I have never been in a creche nor have any close family members as all childminding was and still is done by grandparents or or their family members in my extended family but I have been in primary school where we probably left school grounds once every few months to play a match and one school tour per year. The main exception being communion year where we would have gone to the church regularly. But you are much older and easier to manage at this stage compared to a 1 to 3 year old in a creche, many of whom would be on a lead when with their own parents never mind how a creche worker looks after many to each worker.

It may be a reasonable assumption, but many creches do organise extra offsite trips.
Those days were the ones our kids most enjoyed and talked about int he evening.
Perhaps they have to pay an additional insurance premium to cover these trips and not all creches choose to pay it.
I know that because our creche organised a lot of these trips the staffing ratio was better than minimum to cater for the different sized groups.
When we were in G***e however, they never had anything offsite and were always operating at the limit of the ratios.

John_Rambo

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought it’s a reasonable assumption to assume a creche looks after kids on the grounds of the creche the vast majority of the time

^ But that's not what you said.

This is what you said.

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I would have thought that it would be extremely rare for a creche to leave creche grounds and I don’t think parents would be happy with it either. A creche will be very secure from both kids getting out and people getting in, you lose all that safety if you leave the grounds

Again, you thought wrong!

Reati

OP, saw toddlers from a creche paying football with there minders outside having fun. I remember this thread and did the right thing. Complained they were uninsured and ruined any little fun they were having. Thank you for being that hero I could follow from example!

Graham

Mod Note

Please stop the sly digs. Attack the post, not the poster.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

^ But that's not what you said.

This is what you said.



Again, you thought wrong!

I see no difference in what I said between the two comments not sure how your finding a difference.

I'd be very surprised if this regular going outside the creche was common across all creches, sounds like a nightmare for staff, stress for parents and quite dangerous for many reasons. One claim and the place would be shut down. One poster even said that their creche (or former creche) does not bring kids off site.

John_Rambo

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I see no difference in what I said between the two comments not sure how your finding a difference.

I'd be very surprised if this regular going outside the creche was common across all creches, sounds like a nightmare for staff, stress for parents and quite dangerous for many reasons. One claim and the place would be shut down. One poster even said that their creche (or former creche) does not bring kids off site.

You're in for a surprise then. Staff loving getting out of the "office". Parents love the kids getting fresh air and new experiences and there's no danger involved except for the usual stuff that happens to kids, bumps and bruises.

Gatling

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I'd be very surprised if this regular going outside the creche was common across all creches, sounds like a nightmare for staff, stress for parents and quite dangerous for many reasons.

For some it's part of the daily routine and it's no more dangerous than staying in a locked building ,
Most staff are happy to get outside rather than be couped up for 5 or 6 hours with 20 kids

Anon345

Gatling wrote: »

For some it's part of the daily routine and it's no more dangerous than staying in a locked building ,
Most staff are happy to get outside rather than be couped up for 5 or 6 hours with 20 kids

For our son, inside was more dangerous than outside.
In one creche, they forgot about him in a bathroom for 3 and a half hours.
At least if he was outside, they'd have heard him screaming.

ForestFire

As a parent with 4 year old daughter and also and estate resident:-

- I would not agree for her to be outside the creche in public areas
- Risk of other kid/Parent/Strangers mixing with kids and less control
- Farm Trips...seriously 4 year old kids on a farm and you see no risks.
-Factories tours, Companies may organise school tour as part of a defined education program in co-operation with schools, but tours from a creche with random kids, to past the time, I don't think so.
-My daughter has had 2 school "trips" in the last 2 years. Both times to the local indoor play-center reserved only for the creche kids/staff (no public access). I am sure there is a reason it was organised like this?
- They have had a farm day, where the some small animals were brought into the creche, again I guess the creche decided better than bringing a group of toddlers to the farm yard??

-The creche has controlled access, CCTV cameras in open areas and entry/exits for a reason.

-At the end of the day the creche is a business and the kids do not contribute to the upkeep of the area, which the residents do in most cases.

-If the local Zumba club starting running all their classes, everyday outside your house you would soon complain. (maybe not the men?:o)

-If the creche took the kids everyday to the library, they would be told not to, as it would be seen as an abuse of the service...or else let's just set-up our creche in the library all together.

-Solution
(Sarcastic Version)
Bring your camera out onto the lawn with your largest zoom lens attached to take picture of.....Hmm...the lawn wildlife. An extra large jar of sweets also would be recommended as part of the waiting process to keep you going. Maybe start talking to the kids and fill them in on you life stories (ignore the teachers), and of course don't be mean in not offering some of those sweets you just happen to carry around with you....Won't be long before they find a new space or call the Guards :rolleyes: on a resident enjoying their own residential area.

But seriously, I think the OP has every right to complain and the management company is a good option to start with.

ForestFire

Anon345 wrote: »

For our son, inside was more dangerous than outside.
In one creche, they forgot about him in a bathroom for 3 and a half hours.
At least if he was outside, they'd have heard him screaming.

While its in no way right or good that they forgot about him, Do you really believe it would be better if they forgot him outside in a public area? Why could they not hear him screaming in the bathroom for 3.5hrs?

Remember now, they have forgot him outside somewhere...He might not start screaming until everyone has left him and they will not hear him then. He might also just innocently wander off looking for them again and get into more danger.

Now he is left in a public area and completely vulnerable and in fact probable seen as an easy target and he would obviously be lost.

9999 from 10000 (Add more 9 and zeros if you wish) the person to find him would take care of him and find he's way back, but the risks are significantly higher that being in a bathroom in an enclosed creche I would say.

John_Rambo

ForestFire wrote: »

As a parent with 4 year old daughter and also and estate resident:-

- I would not agree for her to be outside the creche in public areas
- Risk of other kid/Parent/Strangers mixing with kids and less control
- Farm Trips...seriously 4 year old kids on a farm and you see no risks.
-Factories tours, Companies may organise school tour as part of a defined education program in co-operation with schools, but tours from a creche with random kids, to past the time, I don't think so.
-My daughter has had 2 school "trips" in the last 2 years. Both times to the local indoor play-center reserved only for the creche kids/staff (no public access). I am sure there is a reason it was organised like this?
- They have had a farm day, where the some small animals were brought into the creche, again I guess the creche decided better than bringing a group of toddlers to the farm yard??

-The creche has controlled access, CCTV cameras in open areas and entry/exits for a reason.

-At the end of the day the creche is a business and the kids do not contribute to the upkeep of the area, which the residents do in most cases.

-If the local Zumba club starting running all their classes, everyday outside your house you would soon complain. (maybe not the men?:o)

-If the creche took the kids everyday to the library, they would be told not to, as it would be seen as an abuse of the service...or else let's just set-up our creche in the library all together.

-Solution
(Sarcastic Version)
Bring your camera out onto the lawn with your largest zoom lens attached to take picture of.....Hmm...the lawn wildlife. An extra large jar of sweets also would be recommended as part of the waiting process to keep you going. Maybe start talking to the kids and fill them in on you life stories (ignore the teachers), and of course don't be mean in not offering some of those sweets you just happen to carry around with you....Won't be long before they find a new space or call the Guards :rolleyes: on a resident enjoying their own residential area.

But seriously, I think the OP has every right to complain and the management company is a good option to start with.

Jaysus!!

Mixing with other kids is ok.
A little less control is ok.
Going to pet farms or agritourist farms is ok
Going to chocolate and ice-cream factories is ok.
Libraries are perfect for kids at morning time.

Anon345

ForestFire wrote: »

While its in no way right or good that they forgot about him, Do you really believe it would be better if they forgot him outside in a public area? Why could they not hear him screaming in the bathroom for 3.5hrs?

Remember now, they have forgot him outside somewhere...He might not start screaming until everyone has left him and they will not hear him then. He might also just innocently wander off looking for them again and get into more danger.

Now he is left in a public area and completely vulnerable and in fact probable seen as an easy target and he would obviously be lost.

9999 from 10000 (Add more 9 and zeros if you wish) the person to find him would take care of him and find he's way back, but the risks are significantly higher that being in a bathroom in an enclosed creche I would say.

They couldn't hear him because he was in a bathroom off a dedicated nap room at the end of a 25m corridor.
They left him into the bathroom at the end of the nap, forgot he was there, turned off the lights in the bathroom and cleared the nap room.
They only found him by accident when they went back to the nap room looking for another child's teddy.

And yes, I think the outcome would have been much better in a public space than with the bunch of incompetents that were running his creche.
If it happened in the OP's complex, he'd definitely notice and go help .

ForestFire

John_Rambo wrote: »

Jaysus!!

Mixing with other kids is ok.
A little less control is ok.
Going to pet farms or agritourist farms is ok
Going to chocolate and ice-cream factories is ok.
Libraries are perfect for kids at morning time.

Where did I say mixing with other kids was not okay? Did you just split my point to have a go?

The point was about the loss of control, as you cannot identify as easily the creche kids from the estate kids. Telling a parent we had a little less control of you child today and you child is a little less abandoned/lost is not much good to a parent.

Someone else made points about farms and factories, not me and not pet farms and ice cream/chocolate factories.

Where are these factories close to creches?

And again, you take part of my point only, to have a go,.... I said a creche going to a library "everyday", like what is happening on the estate green in the op.

What minimum age do you think is okay for all these activities? Remember I gave my view with my 4 year old only. Yours view maybe different but it's not everyones view.

evolving_doors

Anon345 wrote: »

For our son, inside was more dangerous than outside.
In one creche, they forgot about him in a bathroom for 3 and a half hours.
At least if he was outside, they'd have heard him screaming.

Eh? They'd be letting him go to that bathroom outside then.
Weird.

Anon345

evolving_doors wrote: »

Eh? They'd be letting him go to that bathroom outside then.
Weird.

Sorry, I didn't make my original point clearly.
Some posters on here were saying that inside in the creche's building/yard would be safer than outside the bounds of their property.
My point was that safety has more to do with which creche your children are in than with whether they're inside/outside the property boundaries.

Your child is safer outside with a well run creche than inside with a badly run creche.

John_Rambo

ForestFire wrote: »

Where did I say mixing with other kids was not okay?

Here.

ForestFire wrote: »

- Risk of other kid/Parent/Strangers mixing with kids and less control

ForestFire wrote: »

The point was about the loss of control, as you cannot identify as easily the creche kids from the estate kids.

They wear little high vis jackets with the creches name on it. The kids love them and they won't take them off.

ForestFire wrote: »

Telling a parent we had a little less control of you child today and you child is a little less abandoned/lost is not much good to a parent.

Calm down. You're getting hysterical now.

ForestFire wrote: »

Someone else made points about farms and factories, not me and not pet farms and ice cream/chocolate factories.

You went in to a panic at the thought of a four year old on a farm. What did you think they were going to do, start them mending fences, mixing slurry and de-horning calfs? Of course it's an organised kids tour, it's a creche outing.

ForestFire wrote: »

Where are these factories close to creches?

Butlers chocolate factory is close to hundreds and hundreds of creches. I'm sure if I sat down and did some research I'd find more factories that do tours that are close to hundreds of creches.

ForestFire wrote: »

And again, you take part of my point only, to have a go,.... I said a creche going to a library "everyday", like what is happening on the estate green in the op.

I'm ok with kids in libraries and greens every day.

ForestFire wrote: »

What minimum age do you think is okay for all these activities? Remember I gave my view with my 4 year old only. Yours view maybe different but it's not everyones view.

Four, that's when my lot started, thankfully still alive, with us and intact. Great adventures, singing on the bus, making new friends, new sights and sounds etc... Very healthy for all children.

John_Rambo

John_Rambo wrote: »

You're in for a surprise then. Staff loving getting out of the "office". Parents love the kids getting fresh air and new experiences and there's no danger involved except for the usual stuff that happens to kids, bumps and bruises.

I’m in for no surprise, if I’ve kids they won’t be going to a creche. Kids will be minded by family.

ForestFire

John_Rambo wrote: »

Here.

And that single point (defined by the hyphen) is clearly not about the kids mixing with other kids, but the problem of control when they do mix.

John_Rambo wrote: »

They wear little high vis jackets with the creches name on it. The kids love them and they won't take them off

That a pretty strong claim, You seem so certain no kid ever will take them off, how do you know this?

John_Rambo wrote: »

Calm down. You're getting hysterical now.

I am calm, can you not argue the point and not the poster??
Your the one that started your post with Jayus!! remember and then proceeded to miss quote me.

John_Rambo wrote: »

You went in to a panic at the thought of a four year old on a farm. What did you think they were going to do, start them mending fences, mixing slurry and de-horning calfs? Of course it's an organised kids tour, it's a creche outing.

Again who's panicking, it a discussion board we are only talking, but again you intent on trying to imply something about the poster for some reason....I even made some light hearted jokes in my first post, maybe you missed them (Or they were not very good:().

So is it a farm or a pet farm? I replied to the Farm comment and said it is not suitable for kids, especially 4 year old. No panic, just making a point. I would still not send my 4 year old on a creche outing to a pet farm either, but that is my choice for my child, as I stated, you can make your choice.

She does have her own yearly membership though to a local pet farm and she goes with us every couple of weeks, but at 4, I would not be happy to go with a creche.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Butlers chocolate factory is close to hundreds and hundreds of creches. I'm sure if I sat down and did some research I'd find more factories that do tours that are close to hundreds of creches.

1 Factory in the center of Dublin, so its close to lots of city center creches only and 250km from our creche.

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm ok with kids in libraries and greens every day.

The same kids in the same library every day?, as per the OP situation, do you not think the library would say something if the creche was using there facilities constantly? That is point I was making, not about kids going to the library.

Again the creche is a business and should have it own facilities to fully care for there kids and not need to rely on others (Not saying they cant use other facilities, just not to take advantage of them)

John_Rambo wrote: »

Four, that's when my lot started, thankfully still alive, with us and intact. Great adventures, singing on the bus, making new friends, new sights and sounds etc... Very healthy for all children.

Good for you and them, we might wait until 5 or when we think she is ready.

Some people here are making claims that all Parents want there kids outside when at creche, I am simple stating our view that this is not true, but I am not stating yours or anyone else views.

iamwhoiam

There is a big big difference between being outside and being outside in a public area . A creche should have an outdoor area that is enclosed , safe from kids wandering , safe from others who could be a danger . It is of course better for kids to be outdoors and playing but in an enclosed space . The creche I know has a good big garden , its enclosed and not overlooked . The surface is safe , the toys are safe and the creche workers have a good view of all kids and always in control . I could not even imagine taking little kids out into communal areas and not worry for their safety
One worry among others would be what could be on the ground , ie dog poo , needles , glass etc .

John_Rambo

ForestFire wrote: »

And that single point (defined by the hyphen) is clearly not about the kids mixing with other kids, but the problem of control when they do mix.

They maintain control when the children mix with other kids.

ForestFire wrote: »

That a pretty strong claim, You seem so certain no kid ever will take them off, how do you know this?

Because my kids and all their friends went on these excursions, and the kids before them and the kids after them. There isn't a problem. It's ok.

ForestFire wrote: »

I am calm, can you not argue the point and not the poster??
Your the one that started your post with Jayus!! remember and then proceeded to miss quote me.


Again who's panicking, it a discussion board we are only talking, but again you intent on trying to imply something about the poster for some reason....I even made some light hearted jokes in my first post, maybe you missed them (Or they were not very good:().

Sorry if you feel I misquoted you. I missed the humour, sorry.

ForestFire wrote: »

So is it a farm or a pet farm? I replied to the Farm comment and said it is not suitable for kids, especially 4 year old. No panic, just making a point. I would still not send my 4 year old on a creche outing to a pet farm either, but that is my choice for my child, as I stated, you can make your choice.

She does have her own yearly membership though to a local pet farm and she goes with us every couple of weeks, but at 4, I would not be happy to go with a creche..

Both, they've been to pet farms, show farms and working farms that have a agritourism arm.

ForestFire wrote: »

1 Factory in the center of Dublin, so its close to lots of city center creches only and 250km from our creche

It's not in the centre of Dublin, sorry it's so far away from your creche, but it's very close to hundreds of creches here. Just like the beach is close to lots of creches in Tramore.

ForestFire wrote: »

The same kids in the same library every day?, as per the OP situation, do you not think the library would say something if the creche was using there facilities constantly? That is point I was making, not about kids going to the library.

They're right to use them. We use our local library and there's kids there every day. There's a huge kids section, for kids, could be the same ones every day, doesn't bother me, doesn't bother librarians or other patrons.

ForestFire wrote: »

Again the creche is a business and should have it own facilities to fully care for there kids and not need to rely on others (Not saying they cant use other facilities, just not to take advantage of them)

Agreed. The creche is a business, but if they want to take the kids out from the four walls and use local amenities I'm all for it.

ForestFire wrote: »

Good for you and them, we might wait until 5 or when we think she is ready.

Some people here are making claims that all Parents want there kids outside when at creche, I am simple stating our view that this is not true, but I am not stating yours or anyone else views.

Cool. We're an outdoor family, I grew up in an outdoor family. I'm happy for the creche to bring them outside. Regarding the OP's problem? It sounds exaggerated to be honest.

astrofool

Paige Huge Anchor wrote: »

I’m in for no surprise, if I’ve kids they won’t be going to a creche. Kids will be minded by family.

And I'm sure you will keep them away from the communal playing areas

Just to educate people on here, a majority of creches will bring the kids outside, or on trips, at age appropriate levels, but by age 4 you can expect the kids to be brought to (in Dublin):
zoo
glenroe farm
butlers chocolate factory
any public park

There will also be lots of birthday parties at adventure play areas, or imaginousity among others, where parents will drop the kids off for a couple of hours.

Graham

Mod Note

folks, a quick reminder that this is the Accommodation & Property Forum

If you'd like to discuss your respective parenting/childcare/theoretical childcare techniques:

Parenting forum -> https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=251

Captain Flaps

Any update OP?

mrslancaster

astrofool wrote: »

And I'm sure you will keep them away from the communal playing areas

Just to educate people on here, a majority of creches will bring the kids outside, or on trips, at age appropriate levels, but by age 4 you can expect the kids to be brought to (in Dublin):
zoo
glenroe farm
butlers chocolate factory
any public park

There will also be lots of birthday parties at adventure play areas, or imaginousity among others, where parents will drop the kids off for a couple of hours.

Outings and trips are great for children, educational, fun etc, and are usually well organised with high ratios of adults to children.

using a communal green as the outdoor space for the children in the creche every day is very different.

If my child was attending that creche i would be worried about safety, and the creche insurance. Everything is fine until there's an accident with a child - the creche have a duty of care and if their insurance does not cover using the communal area then they shouldn't bring the children there.