Firearms for self defence/personal protection

Sparks

You mean legally? Well, we don't have that whole "concealed carry"/"open carry" distinction in law for a start, there's just "possession"; and there's a part in Section 2 that exempts the Gardai and the DF from the requirement to have a licence to possess a firearm in the course of their duties, so I suspect you'd never be able to bring a case against either for carrying a firearm while off-duty if you weren't their superior - but I suspect that's more down to an Irish application of the law than it is down to a strict reading of the law.

Whether or not they should is, I suggest, out of scope for this thread.

Reati

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Just curious i wonder can DF members conceal carry while off duty? Maybe the lads working in G2 or other specialized roles..?

It's a bit hard to carry a Steyr Aug around concealed Joking aside, I don't see why they would carry a USP off duty.

cookimonster

Uinseann_16 wrote: »

Just curious i wonder can DF members conceal carry while off duty?

Is that a wind up?

While not being used in the course of duties, training etc all personal issued weapons are stored behind numerous layers of security. An individual can not just decide to draw his weapon out of stores just for the heck of it.

Firearms utilised by the military are akin to tools and while it is not uncommon to see personnel with sidearms carrying out their day to day jobs it would be out of place to see a solider etc doing so if they weren't on particular armed duty.

Ordnance such as weapons, ammo and certain kit are highly controlled and direct access limited to key personnel in the orgainisation.

Uinseann_16

cookimonster wrote: »

Is that a wind up?

While not being used in the course of duties, training etc all personal issued weapons are stored behind numerous layers of security. An individual can not just decide to draw his weapon out of stores just for the heck of it.

Firearms utilised by the military are akin to tools and while it is not uncommon to see personnel with sidearms carrying out their day to day jobs it would be out of place to see a solider etc doing so if they weren't on particular armed duty.

Ordnance such as weapons, ammo and certain kit are highly controlled and direct access limited to key personnel in the orgainisation.

Would the wing not be on 24/7 duty at times and there were threats on their lives in the past was there not?

cookimonster

Technically all members are on 24hr / 7 call, that's what a recall plan is for.

If you where specifically on standby by at home (similar to many other branches of the emergency services) your not operational from your private abode and if the balloon went up even personnel living in would not be able to directly access weapons until they where officially issued to them.

The last time AFAIK, members of the Irish Defence Forces took their personal service rifle home was during the Emergency (WWII).

Garda Detectives (from personnel knowledge) were required to carry their service revolver on their person once it was issued from the stores. Meaning that if they headed off at lunch time to collect the kids from school it was either return to the stores or the carried it. Weather this has changed I don't know. The Guards and Defence Forces are not required to hold licences for the guns used in the course of their duties, so if that duty required you to carry a concealed firearm then that I would assume is covered. Where as a soldier in uniform carring a concealed weapon as part of his routine duties would be pulled on it. Historically Garda Detectives carted pistols in / on wasitbelts with the nearly standard issued wool sport's jacket or leather bomber type jacket that would typically make the undercover lads of olden day stick out in a crowded street. This carriage could be seen as concealment.

Weather or not key people within polite society carry side arms for personal protection due to the nature of thier job or perceived threat level, is open to speculation and debate. The law would provide for them as special conditions may be imposed in the issuing of a licence as cited in various offical references etc.

Savage93

cookimonster wrote: »

Technically all members are on 24hr / 7 call, that's what a recall plan is for.

If you where specifically on standby by at home (similar to many other branches of the emergency services) your not operational from your private abode and if the balloon went up even personnel living in would not be able to directly access weapons until they where officially issued to them.

The last time AFAIK, members of the Irish Defence Forces took their personal service rifle home was during the Emergency (WWII).

Garda Detectives (from personnel knowledge) were required to carry their service revolver on their person once it was issued from the stores. Meaning that if they headed off at lunch time to collect the kids from school it was either return to the stores or the carried it. Weather this has changed I don't know. The Guards and Defence Forces are not required to hold licences for the guns used in the course of their duties, so if that duty required you to carry a concealed firearm then that I would assume is covered. Where as a soldier in uniform carring a concealed weapon as part of his routine duties would be pulled on it. Historically Garda Detectives carted pistols in / on wasitbelts with the nearly standard issued wool sport's jacket or leather bomber type jacket that would typically make the undercover lads of olden day stick out in a crowded street. This carriage could be seen as concealment.

Weather or not key people within polite society carry side arms for personal protection due to the nature of thier job or perceived threat level, is open to speculation and debate. The law would provide for them as special conditions may be imposed in the issuing of a licence as cited in various offical references etc.

Up to the start of the Troubles (1969 or so ) many FCA personnel kept their .303s at home with them (many's the pheasant or fox shot with a .303)No big deal then.

Grizzly 45

There is a lot to be said for the Swiss militia idea.:)

cookimonster

Savage93 wrote: »

Up to the start of the Troubles (1969 or so ) many FCA personnel kept their .303s at home with them (many's the pheasant or fox shot with a .303)No big deal then.

Absolutely, my own uncles would cycle to and from weekly parades with their rifles, but AFAIK the ammunition was non exsistent. But having said that the same boys started off their deer hunting using sporterised Enfields and old Mausers, and from the stories told there was no issue obtaining service ammunition.

The Emergency technicaly continued up until 1970's with no powers being enacted after the end of WWII, but funnly enough it was the beginning of the troubles in the North that saw the FCA rifles withdrawn back to the security of the PDF barracks.

gunny123

I was talking to a old boy i worked with about the fca. All he and many of the lads of his age were concerned about was getting " a grand warm coat and good pair of boots".

Can you imagine the youngsters of today being bawled at by an officer and made do left turns right turns and all that, just to get a coat ?

Grizzly 45

Probably why some called it the "Free Clothing Association":)

gunny123

Is the fca gone ? I suppose since the ussr collapsed, there was no further need for crack bicycle troops with lee enfields.

Reati

gunny123 wrote: »

Is the fca gone ? I suppose since the ussr collapsed, there was no further need for crack bicycle troops with lee enfields.

In a way. It was consolidated into the more modern Na hÓglaigh Cúltaca (Reserve Defence Forces or RDF)

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

Is the fca gone ? I suppose since the ussr collapsed, there was no further need for crack bicycle troops with lee enfields.

Never underestimate a guy with a rifle who knows how to use it to full advantage and his national mode of transport.;)The Russian joke was all Finland could defend itself with in the Winter war was a guy with a rifle on skis. Said guys on skis with Mosin Nagants.Molotov cocktails[aka petrol bombs,a Finnish invention]and favourable weather conditions.Tore Stalin's mechanised army with a 5to1 advantage in numbers and equipment to bits in the Winter of 39/40.It cost the Russians dearly to conquer East Finland

gunny123

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

gunny123 wrote: »

Is the fca gone ? I suppose since the ussr collapsed, there was no further need for crack bicycle troops with lee enfields.

Never underestimate a guy with a rifle who knows how to use it to full advantage and his national mode of transport.;)The Russian joke was all Finland could defend itself with in the Winter war was a guy with a rifle on skis. Said guys on skis with Mosin Nagants.Molotov cocktails[aka petrol bombs,a Finnish invention]and favourable weather conditions.Tore Stalin's mechanised army with a 5to1 advantage in numbers and equipment to bits in the Winter of 39/40.It cost the Russians dearly to conquer East Finland

Thats right, an instance of david beating goliath. Also the boers knocking the tar out of the british in south africa, with their 7mm spanish mausers.