Is it any wonder the railways are under threat!

L1011

end of the road wrote: »

of course it would be change for change sake. a transformitive enhancement would be a frequent direct service.

You have a surreal idea of transformation.

prinzeugen

An interesting point for those that say the Rosslare trains get stuck behind DARTS. They dont really. Delayed by a few minutes maybe according to the timetable.

For example, the 16.41 from Pearse to Rosslare (Mon-Fri) gets sent out behind a DART. It is timetabled to take 34 mins to Bray and 46 mins to Greystones.

The 10.30 from Pearse to Rosslare on a Sunday has a clear run. It is timetabled to take 29 mins to Bray and 42 mins to Greystones.

So a Rosslare train with a clear run is only 6 mins faster to Bray and 4 mins faster to Greystones than a train stuck behind a DART going by the timetable.

Northbound, every train gets sent behind a DART and average about 45 mins for the Greystones-Pearse journey.

CatInABox

prinzeugen wrote: »

An interesting point for those that say the Rosslare trains get stuck behind DARTS. They dont really. Delayed by a few minutes maybe according to the timetable.

For example, the 16.41 from Pearse to Rosslare (Mon-Fri) gets sent out behind a DART. It is timetabled to take 34 mins to Bray and 46 mins to Greystones.

The 10.30 from Pearse to Rosslare on a Sunday has a clear run. It is timetabled to take 29 mins to Bray and 42 mins to Greystones.

So a Rosslare train with a clear run is only 6 mins faster to Bray and 4 mins faster to Greystones than a train stuck behind a DART going by the timetable.

Northbound, every train gets sent behind a DART and average about 45 mins for the Greystones-Pearse journey.

One of the reason given for not wanting an interchange is that the commuter train is "faster" than the Dart. In reality, it's not significantly faster, as you've pointed out.

tabbey

prinzeugen wrote: »

An interesting point for those that say the Rosslare trains get stuck behind DARTS. They dont really. Delayed by a few minutes maybe according to the timetable.

For example, the 16.41 from Pearse to Rosslare (Mon-Fri) gets sent out behind a DART. It is timetabled to take 34 mins to Bray and 46 mins to Greystones.

The 10.30 from Pearse to Rosslare on a Sunday has a clear run. It is timetabled to take 29 mins to Bray and 42 mins to Greystones.

So a Rosslare train with a clear run is only 6 mins faster to Bray and 4 mins faster to Greystones than a train stuck behind a DART going by the timetable.

In the 1980s, the Rosslare services ran briefly non-stop Pearse to Bray. It was allowed 20 minutes, including dwell-time in Bray.

This was done with an A class (001) loco pulling vacuum braked coaches. The ICRs today have more than twice the power / weight ratio,and should be able to knock 2 or 3 minutes off the 20 minutes of 1984.

The notion of long distance passengers having to change at Bray onto a train designed for short journeys is absurd. What the people need is a fast comfortable train once or twice hourly to Greystones, some of them continuing further down the DSER mainline. What is being proposed is to make the mainline into a branch connection off an all stop suburban service, a complete mockery.

There are fewer passengers south of Greystones now than 40 years ago. During this period the number of vehicles on the N11 / M11 parallel road has been multiplied by about 10.

This is no accident, it is the result of a slower service and less comfortable trains.

The southeastern mainline is disadvantaged by it's tortuous route. There is no reason to further handicap it by deliberate policy.

specialbyte

tabbey wrote: »

In the 1980s, the Rosslare services ran briefly non-stop Pearse to Bray. It was allowed 20 minutes, including dwell-time in Bray.

This was done with an A class (001) loco pulling vacuum braked coaches. The ICRs today have more than twice the power / weight ratio,and should be able to knock 2 or 3 minutes off the 20 minutes of 1984.

The notion of long distance passengers having to change at Bray onto a train designed for short journeys is absurd. What the people need is a fast comfortable train once or twice hourly to Greystones, some of them continuing further down the DSER mainline. What is being proposed is to make the mainline into a branch connection off an all stop suburban service, a complete mockery.

There are fewer passengers south of Greystones now than 40 years ago. During this period the number of vehicles on the N11 / M11 parallel road has been multiplied by about 10.

This is no accident, it is the result of a slower service and less comfortable trains.

The southeastern mainline is disadvantaged by it's tortuous route. There is no reason to further handicap it by deliberate policy.

In the 1980s there was no DART service to hold up the long distance trains. If the line was clear today the train would probably fly down the line past Bray but there are DART trains in the way. There are 10,000s of people who use the DART service these days. There are more passengers on one DART than their are on whole South East line south of Greystones in one day.

The slower service is as a result of congestion on the rail line. Tell me how you're going to get a 20 minute schedule from Pearse to Bray these days? The only way to do that is to 3- or 4-track the line to Greystones so fast trains can overtake the DARTs. This isn't feasible. We don't have space for more track north of Bray.

In systems design (essentially this case right now) you have a set of design constraints. In this case the design constraint is that we have 2 rail lines from Bray north. One in each direction. Given the frequency of the trains in both directions, faster limited-stop services cannot pass our slower frequent stop services by overtaking. There aren't enough points and their are too many oncoming trains. Those slower frequent stop services are heavily used and vital to the South East line. So we should not reduce or limit those trains.

I'd also like to point out that the NTA's policy is to convert the line south of Greystones into a shuttle service for commuters (not intercity passengers). Check out their submission to the Wicklow County Development plan: https://www.nationaltransport.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/NTA_Submission_Wicklow_County_Draft_Development_Plan_2016-2022.pdf

IE 222

tabbey wrote: »

In the 1980s, the Rosslare services ran briefly non-stop Pearse to Bray. It was allowed 20 minutes, including dwell-time in Bray.

This was done with an A class (001) loco pulling vacuum braked coaches. The ICRs today have more than twice the power / weight ratio,and should be able to knock 2 or 3 minutes off the 20 minutes of 1984.

The notion of long distance passengers having to change at Bray onto a train designed for short journeys is absurd. What the people need is a fast comfortable train once or twice hourly to Greystones, some of them continuing further down the DSER mainline. What is being proposed is to make the mainline into a branch connection off an all stop suburban service, a complete mockery.

There are fewer passengers south of Greystones now than 40 years ago. During this period the number of vehicles on the N11 / M11 parallel road has been multiplied by about 10.

This is no accident, it is the result of a slower service and less comfortable trains.

The southeastern mainline is disadvantaged by it's tortuous route. There is no reason to further handicap it by deliberate policy.

But the service can be improved dramatically with slight changes. A train running between Bray and Wexford throughout the day can add an additional 4 return trips as well as keeping 3 direct trains and only having to use 3 sets .

prinzeugen

I have the 99/00 timetable here and it took 24 mins from Connolly to Bray non-stop so there is no reason why a ICR with a clear road ahead cant do the same unless they are speed restricted for axle load or kinetic envelope reasons.

Looking at the 1996 working timetable (staff timetable), DARTS were given exactly 40.5 minutes to do Connolly to Bray.

Trains are alot slower today!

IE 222

prinzeugen wrote: »

An interesting point for those that say the Rosslare trains get stuck behind DARTS. They dont really. Delayed by a few minutes maybe according to the timetable.

For example, the 16.41 from Pearse to Rosslare (Mon-Fri) gets sent out behind a DART. It is timetabled to take 34 mins to Bray and 46 mins to Greystones.

The 10.30 from Pearse to Rosslare on a Sunday has a clear run. It is timetabled to take 29 mins to Bray and 42 mins to Greystones.

So a Rosslare train with a clear run is only 6 mins faster to Bray and 4 mins faster to Greystones than a train stuck behind a DART going by the timetable.

Northbound, every train gets sent behind a DART and average about 45 mins for the Greystones-Pearse journey.

You'll find that the Sunday train is then held at Wicklow for at 5 mins to loop the UP train which can't run earlier
or later as it needs run in between 2 DART departures and clear Bray Head for a DART departuring for Greystones on its arrival into Bray.

By terminating some Wexford services at Bray removes these restrictions and improves journey times as trains are no longer scheduled for slotting inbetween DART schedules.

Stephen15

My view would be to keep the four direct services to Rosslare perhaps that number could be reduced to two or three direct services.

A few that could be done to boost frequency and encourage more passengers

Run some of the Drogheda/Maynooth to Bray services further south to Bray there is already a Rosslare to Dundalk don't see why this couldn't be done. You even consider running some further West to Longford/Sligo or further north to Dundalk.

Run extra services to Bray or Greystones which ever is more suitable to connect with DARTs.

Later services could be done this is more a flaw of the general IC network of IE as the last IC service on most lines is at about 6 in the evening.

Allow trains to be stabled overnight in Wexford for morning services all this would require is a diesel pump. Trains could also be cleaned there and light maintence could be done.

Perhaps run shuttle buses for tourists in the summer which would meet the train at stations along the line and drop off to places like Brittas Bay, Courtown and Kilmore Quay. These services could also provisions for bikes.

IE 222

Stephen15 wrote: »

My view would be to keep the four direct services to Rosslare perhaps that number could be reduced to two or three direct services.

A few that could be done to boost frequency and encourage more passengers

Run some of the Drogheda/Maynooth to Bray services further south to Bray there is already a Rosslare to Dundalk don't see why this couldn't be done. You even consider running some further West to Longford/Sligo or further north to Dundalk.

Run extra services to Bray or Greystones which ever is more suitable to connect with DARTs.

Later services could be done this is more a flaw of the general IC network of IE as the last IC service on most lines is at about 6 in the evening.

Allow trains to be stabled overnight in Wexford for morning services all this would require is a diesel pump. Trains could also be cleaned there and light maintence could be done.

Perhaps run shuttle buses for tourists in the summer which would meet the train at stations along the line and drop off to places like Brittas Bay, Courtown and Kilmore Quay. These services could also provisions for bikes.

Where are these extra trains coming from??? Communter trains are already jammed and in short supply. Adding an extra 4 - 5 hour round trip onto their schedule isn't going to help matters else where.

This plan is just adding more congestion and slower trains into the mix. Wexford line won't see any increase in frequency or improvements with the current routing. Half the problem is using a mixed fleet and using Rosslare line as a means for positioning trains in and out of service.

Stephen15

IE 222 wrote: »

Where are these extra trains coming from??? Communter trains are already jammed and in short supply. Adding an extra 4 - 5 hour round trip onto their schedule isn't going to help matters else where.

This plan is just adding more congestion and slower trains into the mix. Wexford line won't see any increase in frequency or improvements with the current routing. Half the problem is using a mixed fleet and using Rosslare line as a means for positioning trains in and out of service.

Return of the 2700 class should free up sets. A Bray to Maynooth train would come from Gorey or Wexford earlier on in the day and could be held in Connolly for about 15 mins to half an hour in case of delays.

andrewfaulk

Stephen15 wrote: »

Return of the 2700 class should free up sets. A Bray to Maynooth train would come from Gorey or Wexford earlier on in the day and could be held in Connolly for about 15 mins to half an hour in case of delays.

The 2700s won’t be heading anywhere near the south east.. they’re being brought back as extra capacity on commuter services, and any sets they free up will likely be put to use lengthening already full services..

Not sure what you would achieve by running trains Wexford to Maynooth, would be adding extra train miles for no major benefit.. In the morning, the train would be useful for South east commuters, but by the time it has arrived into the city and was ready to head to maynooth the rush hour would be over.. In transport, it’s very difficult to do more than one thing/ serve more than one market with one vehicle/service.. So better keep Maynooth/Bray and Connolly/Rosslare separate..

Isambard

he didn't say they were destined for the South East, he said their return would free up sets.

L1011

And and all freed up sets will be used on heavily loaded commuter routes though

LeinsterDub

prinzeugen wrote: »

I have the 99/00 timetable here and it took 24 mins from Connolly to Bray non-stop so there is no reason why a ICR with a clear road ahead cant do the same unless they are speed restricted for axle load or kinetic envelope reasons.

Looking at the 1996 working timetable (staff timetable), DARTS were given exactly 40.5 minutes to do Connolly to Bray.

Trains are alot slower today!

There will never be a clear a road ahead. That's exactly the point.

IE 222

Stephen15 wrote: »

Return of the 2700 class should free up sets. A Bray to Maynooth train would come from Gorey or Wexford earlier on in the day and could be held in Connolly for about 15 mins to half an hour in case of delays.

Well thankfully this won't be happening.

2700s are for already stressed routes not to be increasing services on the Wexford line fill mainly by DART passengers.

Extending Maynooth and Northern line Communters to Wexford is essentially taken a much needed train out of service for at least 3 hours and then you suggest holding it for a further 30mins known delays are likely. You are also sending more Communter stock to run Intercity services and slowing the service even further.

Stephen15

andrewfaulk wrote: »

The 2700s won’t be heading anywhere near the south east.. they’re being brought back as extra capacity on commuter services, and any sets they free up will likely be put to use lengthening already full services..

Not sure what you would achieve by running trains Wexford to Maynooth, would be adding extra train miles for no major benefit.. In the morning, the train would be useful for South east commuters, but by the time it has arrived into the city and was ready to head to maynooth the rush hour would be over.. In transport, it’s very difficult to do more than one thing/ serve more than one market with one vehicle/service.. So better keep Maynooth/Bray and Connolly/Rosslare separate..

Yes but the service could run as an off peak service. The line to Gorey seems generally well served during the peak hours but there's hardly any services off peak. So if a train left Gorey at 3 in the afternoon in should get to Dublin in time to run a peak service at 5.

Infini

Well no trains between Bray and Greystones today since some eejit camping up the mountain set the whole area on fire and it burnt the telecoms cables on the line.

Stephen15

Infini wrote: »

Well no trains between Bray and Greystones today since some eejit camping up the mountain set the whole area on fire and it burnt the telecoms cables on the line.

So more disruption after the fire in Bray signalling room a few months ago

tabbey

specialbyte wrote: »

In the 1980s there was no DART service to hold up the long distance trains. If the line was clear today the train would probably fly down the line past Bray but there are DART trains in the way. There are 10,000s of people who use the DART service these days. There are more passengers on one DART than their are on whole South East line south of Greystones in one day.

The slower service is as a result of congestion on the rail line. Tell me how you're going to get a 20 minute schedule from Pearse to Bray these days? The only way to do that is to 3- or 4-track the line to Greystones so fast trains can overtake the DARTs. This isn't feasible. We don't have space for more track north of Bray.

The DART service commenced 23 July 1984, the 20 minute non-stop Pearse to Bray operated since then.

To provide an ideal service for the southeastern line, DART and beyond, a stretch of four tracking is desirable, but even without this, it is possible to provide a ten minute DART frequency between Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction, while running a faster outer suburban service also. A semi-fast DART to Greystones, stopping at Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Bray, could be followed two minutes later by an all stops to Bray, followed ten minutes later by an all stops to DunLaoghaire. Such a pattern every half hour would bring back to the railway, traffic that has been thrown away due to the current slow service.

People on this thread talk about 10s of thousands using the DART service,but most use Dun Laoghaire and Bray. The latter and Greystones deserve a more appropriate service.

Give them a good service and they will use it.

IE 222

tabbey wrote: »

The DART service commenced 23 July 1984, the 20 minute non-stop Pearse to Bray operated since then.

To provide an ideal service for the southeastern line, DART and beyond, a stretch of four tracking is desirable, but even without this, it is possible to provide a ten minute DART frequency between Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction, while running a faster outer suburban service also. A semi-fast DART to Greystones, stopping at Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Bray, could be followed two minutes later by an all stops to Bray, followed ten minutes later by an all stops to DunLaoghaire. Such a pattern every half hour would bring back to the railway, traffic that has been thrown away due to the current slow service.

People on this thread talk about 10s of thousands using the DART service,but most use Dun Laoghaire and Bray. The latter and Greystones deserve a more appropriate service.

Give them a good service and they will use it.

Totally agree that there is no demand at a lot of stations to have a DART stop every 10mins throughout the day but running services as you suggested creates a bit of a mess and complicates things for the nornal Joe soap. Alternatively IE should look at been able to factor in terminating some DARTS at Dun Laoghaire when required to give a clear path to IC trains.

They also need to move away from clock face timetabling and I think removing departure times at intermediate stations will remove a lot of the padding currently allocated to services. People will know there will be a DART roughly every 10mins.

Jamie2k9

There is capacity for extra services already. Yes IE fleet is tight but they are in a position to add extra services if they want. The fleet controller can be creative when needed.

prinzeugen

tabbey wrote: »

The DART service commenced 23 July 1984, the 20 minute non-stop Pearse to Bray operated since then.

To provide an ideal service for the southeastern line, DART and beyond, a stretch of four tracking is desirable, but even without this, it is possible to provide a ten minute DART frequency between Dun Laoghaire and Howth Junction, while running a faster outer suburban service also. A semi-fast DART to Greystones, stopping at Blackrock, Dun Laoghaire, Dalkey and Bray, could be followed two minutes later by an all stops to Bray, followed ten minutes later by an all stops to DunLaoghaire. Such a pattern every half hour would bring back to the railway, traffic that has been thrown away due to the current slow service.

People on this thread talk about 10s of thousands using the DART service,but most use Dun Laoghaire and Bray. The latter and Greystones deserve a more appropriate service.

Give them a good service and they will use it.

Four tracks are impossible. Geography dictates that.

prinzeugen

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There will never be a clear a road ahead. That's exactly the point.

You must not have read my post. The Sunday train has a clear road.

But still takes longer. Read the post!!

prinzeugen

Stephen15 wrote: »

Return of the 2700 class should free up sets. A Bray to Maynooth train would come from Gorey or Wexford earlier on in the day and could be held in Connolly for about 15 mins to half an hour in case of delays.

2700 class are banned on the Rosslare line. The couplings could not handle the line and trains split. Two wee springs vs Co Wicklow!

Stephen15

prinzeugen wrote: »

2700 class are banned on the Rosslare line. The couplings could not handle the line and trains split. Two wee springs vs Co Wicklow!

Yes but the return of the 2700 would free up other sets. The 2800 class could return to Dublin as they are currently based in Limerick. Could also mean they could replace ICRs on commuter routes meaning ICRs could be used on the likes the Rosslare line and the Sligo line instead of 29000 commuter units.

LeinsterDub

prinzeugen wrote: »

You must not have read my post. The Sunday train has a clear road.

But still takes longer. Read the post!!

It's my understanding that the 10 minute darts will run nearly all day including the weekend

IE 222

prinzeugen wrote: »

You must not have read my post. The Sunday train has a clear road.

But still takes longer. Read the post!!

Having a clear path doesn't necessarily improve things unless the UP service also has a clear path and both UP and DOWN trains can be timetabled to loop each other without the a wait because of a service been restricted due to DART timetables.

IE 222

Stephen15 wrote: »

Yes but the return of the 2700 would free up other sets. The 2800 class could return to Dublin as they are currently based in Limerick. Could also mean they could replace ICRs on commuter routes meaning ICRs could be used on the likes the Rosslare line and the Sligo line instead of 29000 commuter units.

The 2700s are coming back because of shortages on existing communter routes. They won't freeing up any stock to run elsewhere.

tabbey

prinzeugen wrote: »

Four tracks are impossible. Geography dictates that.

Not entirely.

Podge_irl

I would be curious as the general consensus in Wexford as to what is better out of

A) a train every 4 hours direct to Dublin which, once it hits Greystones, gets stuck behind a Dart and goes at the same pace

a train every 2 hours to Greystones whereupon you walk 4m to a waiting and likely empty Dart that brings you into Dublin with an overall journey time of maybe 4-5 minutes longer

Which is essentially the choice offered here. One seems almost immeasurably better than the other to me.

Stephen15

Podge_irl wrote: »

I would be curious as the general consensus in Wexford as to what is better out of

A) a train every 4 hours direct to Dublin which, once it hits Greystones, gets stuck behind a Dart and goes at the same pace

a train every 2 hours to Greystones whereupon you walk 4m to a waiting and likely empty Dart that brings you into Dublin with an overall journey time of maybe 4-5 minutes longer

Which is essentially the choice offered here. One seems almost immeasurably better than the other to me.

Except there isin't going to be a train on the Wexford line every 2 hours. If the demand isin't there for a train every 4 hours what makes you think the demand will be there for a train every 2 hours which takes longer. Either way the bus will still be quicker, cheaper, more frequent and direct.

Podge_irl

Stephen15 wrote: »

Except there isin't going to be a train on the Wexford line every 2 hours. If the demand isin't there for a train every 4 hours what makes you think the demand will be there for a train every 2 hours which takes longer. Either way the bus will still be quicker, cheaper, more frequent and direct.

Greater frequency helps increase demand because it becomes a more viable option.

Otherwise just dump the line completely if there is so little demand for it.

Isambard

Podge_irl wrote: »

Greater frequency helps increase demand because it becomes a more viable option.

Otherwise just dump the line completely if there is so little demand for it.

adding a change reduces demand... your move

CatInABox

Isambard wrote: »

adding a change reduces demand... your move

Not according to the research done by Jarrett Walker, one of the foremost experts in Public Transport Planning and Policy.

Your move.

Del.Monte

CatInABox wrote: »

Not according to the research done by Jarrett Walker, one of the foremost experts in Public Transport Planning and Policy.

Your move.

Any link for this?

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

Any link for this?

Www.Busconnects.ie

Del.Monte

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Www.Busconnects.ie

What has this got to do with terminating long distance passengers trains miles from their destination and forcing passengers onto packed, all stops commuter trains. Are there examples of where this has successfully done?

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

What has this got to do with terminating long distance passengers trains miles from their destination and forcing passengers onto packed, all stops commuter trains. Are there examples of where this has successfully done?

You asked for a link to Jarett Walker's work which I provided. You are now asking a completely different question.

Del.Monte

LeinsterDub wrote: »

You asked for a link to Jarett Walker's work which I provided. You are now asking a completely different question.

I'm not, I was responding to a post that claimed changing (trains) presumably did not cause a drop-off in traffic - you posted something about buses.

end of the road

CatInABox wrote: »

Not according to the research done by Jarrett Walker, one of the foremost experts in Public Transport Planning and Policy.

Your move.

and as we have discussed, his research is in relation to changes that make actual sense. his research is not in relation to changes that make no sense what soever, such as terminating a main line service which once ran direct to a capital city or city, outside that city, and then forcing a change on to a suburban service to continue the last bit into that city.

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

I'm not, I was responding to a post that claimed changing (trains) presumably did not cause a drop-off in traffic - you posted something about buses.

Buses, coaches, trains, donkey pulled cart who cares?
In England it's quite common to change trains or even for trains to be spilt up into multiple units.

Del.Monte

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Buses, coaches, trains, donkey pulled cart who cares?

Well why bother posting about it if you don't care. I use the service and I do care - it's not just an abstract item to pontificate about on an internet forum.

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

Well why bother posting about it if you don't care. I use the service and I do care - it's not just an abstract item to pontificate about on an internet forum.

I don't care about the mode. I just care about the destination.

end of the road

LeinsterDub wrote: »

In England it's quite common to change trains or even for trains to be spilt up into multiple units.

those changes are from either branch line services or regional services to other services such as inter city services. so again not comparible to this specific service.

Grandeeod

This is a really funny thread.:D It wasn't that long ago we were talking about terminating/starting Wexford trains in Pearse to free up paths on the loop line.:D Now we have moved out to Bray!

A classic example of the state not giving a fook about anything and a new generation popping in to deal with the current situation. No winners here at all. I love history! It makes fools of so many, because so many forget it!

Carry on lads.:D

CatInABox

Here you go.

“Transferring” Can Be Good for You, and Good for Your City

End of the road, you and I disagree on what makes sense. For me, terminating at Bray makes sense as it gives the opportunity to improve frequency, with little cost to the commuter.

end of the road

CatInABox wrote: »

Here you go.

“Transferring” Can Be Good for You, and Good for Your City

End of the road, you and I disagree on what makes sense. For me, terminating at Bray makes sense as it gives the opportunity to improve frequency, with little cost to the commuter.

little cost to the commuter? nope. quite a big cost to the commuters of the wexford line in fact.
frequency can be improved already if IE/NTA want to do it. they don't because improving rail services is not on their agenda.

CatInABox

end of the road wrote: »

little cost to the commuter? nope. quite a big cost to the commuters of the wexford line in fact.
frequency can be improved already if IE/NTA want to do it. they don't because improving rail services is not on their agenda.

And there we disagree again. I think it's little cost, you think it's high cost.

For your second point though, here's the assumptions from the busconnects plan, I was only looking at it earlier:

Improved DART and Commuter Rail Frequency
Building on the NTA’s plans for improved rail frequency by 2019,
the proposal assumes that DART and Commuter Rail frequencies
will be improved from the existing condition.

In particular, we assume that DART will operate every 10
minutes between Howth Junction, Dublin city centre, and Bray,
and every 20 minutes on the branches to Howth, Malahide, and
Greystones.

We also assume that Commuter Rail services will operate at the
following midday frequencies:
• Maynooth Line: Every 30 minutes between Maynooth and
Connolly Station.
• Kildare Line: Every 60 minutes between Kildare and Heuston
Station.
• Northern Line: Every 60 minutes between Drogheda and
Connolly Station.

The plan makes considerable use of these higher frequencies
through increased local bus services to DART stations.
Connections to Commuter Rail have also been considered, particularly
with the Maynooth Line, although they are less central
to the plan.

IE/NTA are improving rail services, they're just not doing it on the Wexford line. Makes you wonder why they're not.

end of the road

CatInABox wrote: »

And there we disagree again. I think it's little cost, you think it's high cost.

For your second point though, here's the assumptions from the busconnects plan, I was only looking at it earlier:



IE/NTA are improving rail services, they're just not doing it on the Wexford line. Makes you wonder why they're not.

oh it doesn't make those of us who actually use the line wonder at all. we know why they don't do it. and here's the funny thing, it's nothing to do with passenger numbers, proffit and loss, or dart.