Is it any wonder the railways are under threat!

CatInABox

end of the road wrote: »

oh it doesn't make those of us who actually use the line wonder at all. we know why they don't do it. and here's the funny thing, it's nothing to do with passenger numbers, proffit and loss, or dart.

Enlighten the rest of us please.

end of the road

CatInABox wrote: »

Enlighten the rest of us please.

a mix of irish rail's lack of interest in running railways in general, and politics.
they need to keep a couple of lines hovering on the edge of closure, or on the way to it) so that if severe cuts need to be made, they can sacrifice a line or 2 to satisfy the politicians.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

they need to keep a couple of lines hovering on the edge of closure, or on the way to it) so that if severe cuts need to be made, they can sacrifice a line or 2 to satisfy the politicians.

That literally makes no sense.

prinzeugen

CatInABox wrote: »

Here you go.

“Transferring” Can Be Good for You, and Good for Your City

End of the road, you and I disagree on what makes sense. For me, terminating at Bray makes sense as it gives the opportunity to improve frequency, with little cost to the commuter.

This is a problem with society. The commuter thinks the world revolves around them.

Why should other people suffer because of a few selfish commuters? Its not just trains. Its every form of transport where this attitude is creeping in.

Commuters think the buses and trains carry fresh air around during the day.

I have no objections to some trains turning back at Bray, but a through service to Dublin MUST be maintained.

Del.Monte

Is there a chance that somebody could post up a link showing where inter-city/long distance passenger trains put their passengers off miles from their destination and force them to complete their journey on a stopping commuter train? Please?

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

Is there a chance that somebody could post up a link showing where inter-city/long distance passenger trains put their passengers off miles from their destination and force them to complete their journey on a stopping commuter train? Please?

Basically every train line terminating in or near a large city? Or do you think everyone wants to go to a train station as their final destination?

PeadarCo

prinzeugen wrote:

Why should other people suffer because of a few selfish commuters? Its not just trains. Its every form of transport where this attitude is creeping in.

Communters are what transport systems in cities are designed around. That's when the system has to carry the most people. Away from trains look at M50 it's busiest around the times people are coming from and going to work. Take the M50 on a Monday at 8 in the morning and look at the difference between a bank holiday and normal Monday. The purpose of any transport system is to get people from a to b.

cython

prinzeugen wrote: »

This is a problem with society. The commuter thinks the world revolves around them.

Why should other people suffer because of a few selfish commuters? Its not just trains. Its every form of transport where this attitude is creeping in.

Equally why should thousands of commuters suffer a substandard service because of a few hundred "selfish" users of the Wexford line? Realistically your statement and the use of the word few in reference to the commuters is out of balance with the realities of the numbers involved.

Any train from wexford that runs through is automatically reducing capacity of that path even if it stops everywhere as only shorter sets can operate on that line. By stopping at only select stations the useful capacity of that path is reduced even further. This balances the shorter set in terms of capacity required by the service, but is still wasteful

Nermal

prinzeugen wrote: »

Why should other people suffer because of a few selfish commuters?

You said in this very thread that public transport is 'for the many, not the few'.

Who are the many? Commuters!

Del.Monte

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Basically every train line terminating in or near a large city? Or do you think everyone wants to go to a train station as their final destination?

An example please - anywhere! Trains do not terminate near large cities - unless Ryanair have started operating them without anybody noticing.

LeinsterDub

Del.Monte wrote: »

An example please - anywhere! Trains do not terminate near large cities - unless Ryanair have started operating them without anybody noticing.

Your ignoring the point . How many people are actual going to King's Cross for example . They are getting on a other form of transport .

Stephen15

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Basically every train line terminating in or near a large city? Or do you think everyone wants to go to a train station as their final destination?

So Paris leaves their passengers in Versailles and London leaves their passengers in Watford or Reading. There is a difference between passengers taking an intercity train and then changing to a metro, bus, tram or another train to get their onward destination and passengers being forced to change in order to get another train to get to the Luas, train or bus they have to catch.

If trains are terminated in Bray passengers would be left with limited range of services to change just the DART and a limited selection of bus routes to make their onward connection versus the city centre where they have the Luas, DART, Commuter and Intercity trains and loads of bus routes.

LeinsterDub

Stephen15 wrote: »

So Paris leaves their passengers in Versailles and London leaves their passengers in Watford or Reading. There is a difference between passengers taking an intercity train and then changing to a metro, bus, tram or another train to get their onward destination and passengers being forced to change in order to get another train to get to the Luas, train or bus they have to catch.

If trains are terminated in Bray passengers would be left with limited range of services to change just the DART and a limited selection of bus routes to make their onward connection versus the city centre where they have the Luas, DART, Commuter and Intercity trains and loads of bus routes.

There is also a difference between busy intercity routes and basically a regional service from provincial towns to Dublin. If the Wexford train could pass out the IC train you may have a point , if the Wexford train was any quicker you may have a point.

Turnipman

Grandeeod wrote: »

A classic example of the state not giving a fook about anything and a new generation popping in to deal with the current situation. No winners here at all. I love history! It makes fools of so many, because so many forget it!

So where exactly did "the State" make an appearance on this thread? And under what moniker is it posting?

Isambard

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Your ignoring the point . How many people are actual going to King's Cross for example . They are getting on a other form of transport .

yes but that's an interchange hub where people change on to many other routes, in the case in point here, people are being asked to change trains and continue the same route.

LeinsterDub

Isambard wrote: »

yes but that's an interchange hub where people change on to many other routes, in the case in point here, people are being asked to change trains and continue the same route.

100% concede this point, changing at Bray is defiantly a sub-optimal solution, if we could increase the frequency without a change at a reasonable price I'd full support it.

Bray Head

The Rosslare route south of Greystones has incredibly low passenger numbers. 


Half of its catchment is the ocean and the bus service is much quicker.


It would make huge sense for passengers to change at Bray or Greystones. A 10-minute frequency would be a lot more useful to a lot more people.

Isambard

Bray Head wrote: »

The Rosslare route south of Greystones has incredibly low passenger numbers. 


Half of its catchment is the ocean and the bus service is much quicker.


It would make huge sense for passengers to change at Bray or Greystones. A 10-minute frequency would be a lot more useful to a lot more people.

Can't you have a ten minute frequency with one of those paths every so often being a through train from Rosslare? People joining on route won't notice it's a diesel train rather than an electric one surely.

Bray Head

Isambard wrote: »

Can't you have a ten minute frequency with one of those paths every so often being a through train from Rosslare? People joining on route won't notice it's a diesel train rather than an electric one surely.

No. Diesel inter-city trains aren't designed for starting and stopping every few kilometres the way electric commuter trains are.

Isambard

Bray Head wrote: »

No. Diesel inter-city trains aren't designed for starting and stopping every few kilometres the way electric commuter trains are.

but that's exactly how they use them now.

end of the road

Bray Head wrote: »

The Rosslare route south of Greystones has incredibly low passenger numbers.


Half of its catchment is the ocean and the bus service is much quicker.


It would make huge sense for passengers to change at Bray or Greystones. A 10-minute frequency would be a lot more useful to a lot more people.

the Rosslare route south of Greystones does not have incredibly low passenger numbers, however, there is certainly room for lots of growth on the service. it's catchment are the regional towns it runs through, which have good populations and while the bus is a bit faster, for those who use the rail service, the bus is not and never will be a convenient or good option. it would make no sense for passengers to change at bray or greystones, as it would drive people away from the service, which i suspect is the real agenda behind it's proposal and support, in the belief that dart must get all capacity and that no other trains should run from anywhere else.
. a 10 minute frequency being a lot more useful to a lot more people is irrelevant, given the 10 minute frequency is happening and by the looks of it given the fact it is happening, it isn't going to be prohibited from happening via the continued running through of wexford trains.

cython wrote: »

Equally why should thousands of commuters suffer a substandard service because of a few hundred "selfish" users of the Wexford line? Realistically your statement and the use of the word few in reference to the commuters is out of balance with the realities of the numbers involved.

Any train from wexford that runs through is automatically reducing capacity of that path even if it stops everywhere as only shorter sets can operate on that line. By stopping at only select stations the useful capacity of that path is reduced even further. This balances the shorter set in terms of capacity required by the service, but is still wasteful

thousands of commuters won't suffer a substandard service due to the decent amount of non-selfish users of the wexford line. the capacity reduced by wexford trains is extremely minimal and a non-issue. there is plenty of capacity for dart and it's users. also, the people at select stations benefit from a limited stop service which they very much take advantage of.

LeinsterDub wrote: »

There is also a difference between busy intercity routes and basically a regional service from provincial towns to Dublin. If the Wexford train could pass out the IC train you may have a point , if the Wexford train was any quicker you may have a point.

it's no different to the majority of lines in the country. long distance regional lines that run to the capital, because that is where the vast majority of their traffic wish to go.

Del.Monte

Bray Head wrote: »

The Rosslare route south of Greystones has incredibly low passenger numbers. 


Half of its catchment is the ocean and the bus service is much quicker.


It would make huge sense for passengers to change at Bray or Greystones. A 10-minute frequency would be a lot more useful to a lot more people.

Use the bus service much do you - how on earth is it much quicker? The journey time Wexford/Dublin by bus is 2 hours 35 mins and the train fractionally faster at 2 hours 32 mins. The bus wins on frequency/price/seats and the train wins on reliability (not affected by traffic) scenery/ability to work at a table, ability to walk about and not get deep vein thrombosis/refreshments/toilets and better WiFi but they are different animals. As for the old red herring - half of its catchment is the ocean (used by naysayers to try and thwart the DART project getting started) ...not worthy of comment.

Bray Head

Gorey to Pearse St Dublin this evening, advertised services according the NTA journey planner:
Train: 117 minutes
Bus: 80 minutes
The bus also passes big trip generators like UCD and its stops allow for better integration with the Luas and Dublin Bus network.


The Rosslare line has incredibly low patronage. That's a fact. The 2016 NTA passenger Census showed a mere five hundred boardings for the nine stations south of Greystones. Bray and Greystones alone have five thousand. That's an order of magnitude difference!

The numbers speak for themselves.

Grandeeod

Turnipman wrote: »

So where exactly did "the State" make an appearance on this thread? And under what moniker is it posting?

The "Minister" is the shareholder in IE. The state subsidizes the railway. If the railway needs to improve something and can't afford to, the state decides whether to pick up the tab or not.

Del.Monte

Bray Head wrote: »

Gorey to Pearse St Dublin this evening, advertised services according the NTA journey planner:
Train: 117 minutes
Bus: 80 minutes
The bus also passes big trip generators like UCD and its stops allow for better integration with the Luas and Dublin Bus network.


The Rosslare line has incredibly low patronage. That's a fact. The 2016 NTA passenger Census showed a mere five hundred boardings for the nine stations south of Greystones. Bray and Greystones alone have five thousand. That's an order of magnitude difference!

The numbers speak for themselves.

Don't which trains you're talking about but the 14.01 ex Gorey arrives Pearse at 15.38 or 97 minutes.

The 19.11 ex.Gorey arrives Pearse at 20.52 or 101 minutes.

Perhaps it's just the buses I've been on but I would dispute that UCD is big trip generator as for connectivity with the buses and Luas - ever been to Connolly?

end of the road

Bray Head wrote: »

Gorey to Pearse St Dublin this evening, advertised services according the NTA journey planner:
Train: 117 minutes
Bus: 80 minutes
The bus also passes big trip generators like UCD and its stops allow for better integration with the Luas and Dublin Bus network.


The Rosslare line has incredibly low patronage. That's a fact. The 2016 NTA passenger Census showed a mere five hundred boardings for the nine stations south of Greystones. Bray and Greystones alone have five thousand. That's an order of magnitude difference!

The numbers speak for themselves.

in reality, the bus is unlikely to take the quoted time, at least not on the average day at peak times. the train offers the same integration all be it in a different place and it will depend on which bus or luas services one wishes to use and where they wish to go.
the rosslare line does not have incredibly low patronage, that is a fact. it certainly could do with a lot bigger patronage but for what is offered, numbers are decent.
the NTA rail census only surveys a line on 1 day, rather then daily. i'm not sure if it surveys every train each way either. therefore it cannot give a true picture of passenger numbers over all and therefore only proves the numbers who used the line at the time the census was taken.

tabbey

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Buses, coaches, trains, donkey pulled cart who cares?
In England it's quite common to change trains or even for trains to be spilt up into multiple units.

Two points:

Splitting multiple units is what they are designed for. In Northern Ireland, the evening train to Newry is split at Portadown, the front set continuing to Newry with the limited numbers of passengers, the rear unit remaining at Portadown, saving fuel.
This makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately here in RoI, the Luddites run 6 or 8 car trains on DART throughout the day in spite of David Franks efforts to economise some years ago.

Changing trains is another matter. On the continent a seamless timetable ensures a cross platform change from one train to another, allowing passengers from A and B to have a choice of destinations.

In Britain, changing trains can be a very uncertain procedure. I made two Sail & Rail trips to England in the last couple of months. In both cases, having to change at Chester and another place, combined with delayed running, meant I was standing from Birmingham to Leamington in one instance, and Manchester to Huddersfield in the other. If changes were dependable, a seat reservation might be feasible, but as thing stand, not realistic.

Changes of train are only useful where it makes sense, perhaps Lmk Junction. Even in the latter case, I am sure if more direct Dublin to Limerick trains were available, they would be more popular with the travelling public.

Isambard

tabbey wrote: »

Two points:

Splitting multiple units is what they are designed for. In Northern Ireland, the evening train to Newry is split at Portadown, the front set continuing to Newry with the limited numbers of passengers, the rear unit remaining at Portadown, saving fuel.
This makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately here in RoI, the Luddites run 6 or 8 car trains on DART throughout the day in spite of David Franks efforts to economise some years ago.

Changing trains is another matter. On the continent a seamless timetable ensures a cross platform change from one train to another, allowing passengers from A and B to have a choice of destinations.

In Britain, changing trains can be a very uncertain procedure. I made two Sail & Rail trips to England in the last couple of months. In both cases, having to change at Chester and another place, combined with delayed running, meant I was standing from Birmingham to Leamington in one instance, and Leeds to Huddersfield in the other. If changes were dependable, a seat reservation might be feasible, but as thing stand, not realistic.

Changes of train are only useful where it makes sense, perhaps Lmk Junction. Even in the latter case, I am sure if more direct Dublin to Limerick trains were available, they would be more popular with the travelling public.

surely a case there for an 8 car formation to split into 5 and 3 (say ) at LJ with the three going to Limerick and the 5 continuing to Cork.

liklik3

With some trepidation I'm going to stop lurking and wade in,

I believe that far form enhancing the service south of Greystones, forcing people on to a Dart by terminating a train at Bray, will damage ridership. A significant upside of the train vs car/bus is the ability to make up time in the congestion of the city something that rail lines into Dublin fail to capitalize on with longer distance intercity and commuter services due to the pathing constraints a 2 tracked line. The key to driving ridership on these services is going to be improving speeds on the more contested tracks. 
On the line south of Connolly quad tracking simply isn't an option due to the expense of the land adjacent to the railway and the nature of the route. However there are some locations where stations could be expanded to have 3 or 4 through lines (such as Shankhill and possibly Killiney or the existing 3rd platform at grand canal dock) so that a Dart service could pull into the 3rd loop platform to allow the commuter or Ic service to pass it. While there would be some costs  with this approach it would keep costs manageable (compared to complete quad tracking) but also enhance IE's ability to operate limited stop Dart's (not sure if IE have enough units to do this and have a 10 min frequency) or commuters to the south of the city centre while also allowing them to improve timings on the intercity service to Wexford.

bk

liklik3 wrote: »

I believe that far form enhancing the service south of Greystones, forcing people on to a Dart by terminating a train at Bray, will damage ridership. A significant upside of the train vs car/bus is the ability to make up time in the congestion of the city something that rail lines into Dublin fail to capitalize on with longer distance intercity and commuter services due to the pathing constraints a 2 tracked line. The key to driving ridership on these services is going to be improving speeds on the more contested tracks. 
On the line south of Connolly quad tracking simply isn't an option due to the expense of the land adjacent to the railway and the nature of the route. However there are some locations where stations could be expanded to have 3 or 4 through lines (such as Shankhill and possibly Killiney or the existing 3rd platform at grand canal dock) so that a Dart service could pull into the 3rd loop platform to allow the commuter or Ic service to pass it. While there would be some costs  with this approach it would keep costs manageable (compared to complete quad tracking) but also enhance IE's ability to operate limited stop Dart's (not sure if IE have enough units to do this and have a 10 min frequency) or commuters to the south of the city centre while also allowing them to improve timings on the intercity service to Wexford.

That would still cost hundreds of millions. For a line that carries just 541 people a day and services towns whose populations add up to just 68,000, the economics of it simply wouldn't add up and the money would be better spent elsewhere.

end of the road

bk wrote: »

That would still cost hundreds of millions. For a line that carries just 541 people a day and services towns whose populations add up to just 68,000, the economics of it simply wouldn't add up and the money would be better spent elsewhere.

actually if done right this would be the complete opposite of a project where the money could be better spent elsewhere. it would be a very decent benefit and return as it would be improving capacity and efficientsy and resiliants on the south side line and would likely be very doable and probably not at as high a cost as one may think. it so happens that it would be benefiting the decent numbers using the wexford line as well to travel to dublin, but it would be improving the suburban service even more. full quad tracking isn't possible but keeping the infrastructure as it is isn't an option either whether wexford services exist or not. so certainly something that should be looked into.

bk

end of the road wrote: »

actually if done right this would be the complete opposite of a project where the money could be better spent elsewhere. it would be a very decent benefit and return as it would be improving capacity and efficientsy and resiliants on the south side line and would likely be very doable and probably not at as high a cost as one may think. it so happens that it would be benefiting the decent numbers using the wexford line as well to travel to dublin, but it would be improving the suburban service even more. full quad tracking isn't possible but keeping the infrastructure as it is isn't an option either whether wexford services exist or not. so certainly something that should be looked into.

No it wouldn't, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, the demographics and geography won't change. Just 68,000 people, that is all, spread out across a couple of towns across a sleepy single track rural line that meanders through the countryside.

And no, 541 people a day or 6 Dublin Bus loads is not "decent numbers" it is terrible numbers.

prinzeugen

Nermal wrote: »

You said in this very thread that public transport is 'for the many, not the few'.

Who are the many? Commuters!

The many meaning everyone and the few meaning the 9-5 crowd.

prinzeugen

bk wrote: »

No it wouldn't, it doesn't matter how many times you say it, the demographics and geography won't change. Just 68,000 people, that is all, spread out across a couple of towns across a sleepy single track rural line that meanders through the countryside.

And no, 541 people a day or 6 Dublin Bus loads is not "decent numbers" it is terrible numbers.

Campaign to get the line closed then! If its such a burden on you office folks then it should be closed and the track turned into a cycle-way?


541 per day is decent numbers compared to similar lines in the UK. It is still running for a reason. People need to use it. Its not running for the hell of it!



But Hey, lets mess around with the railways in Ireland! (except the one that YOU use).


You dont use the line so its a waste. Typical modern selfish attitude. Me, Me ,Me! and to hell with everyone else!

Podge_irl

prinzeugen wrote: »

Campaign to get the line closed then! If its such a burden on you office folks then it should be closed and the track turned into a cycle-way?


541 per day is decent numbers compared to similar lines in the UK. It is still running for a reason. People need to use it. Its not running for the hell of it!



But Hey, lets mess around with the railways in Ireland! (except the one that YOU use).


You dont use the line so its a waste. Typical modern selfish attitude. Me, Me ,Me! and to hell with everyone else!

The point is that they are never going to invest upwards of €100m improving a line that 500 people use. Turning the trains back at Greystones means you can at least improve the frequency of the line essentially for free and that is the only "improvement" that is going to happen.

If there was some means for the trains to continue into Dublin and not get stuck behind DARTs then obviously it would be better. But there isn't.

IE 222

liklik3 wrote: »

With some trepidation I'm going to stop lurking and wade in,

I believe that far form enhancing the service south of Greystones, forcing people on to a Dart by terminating a train at Bray, will damage ridership. A significant upside of the train vs car/bus is the ability to make up time in the congestion of the city something that rail lines into Dublin fail to capitalize on with longer distance intercity and commuter services due to the pathing constraints a 2 tracked line. The key to driving ridership on these services is going to be improving speeds on the more contested tracks. 
On the line south of Connolly quad tracking simply isn't an option due to the expense of the land adjacent to the railway and the nature of the route. However there are some locations where stations could be expanded to have 3 or 4 through lines (such as Shankhill and possibly Killiney or the existing 3rd platform at grand canal dock) so that a Dart service could pull into the 3rd loop platform to allow the commuter or Ic service to pass it. While there would be some costs  with this approach it would keep costs manageable (compared to complete quad tracking) but also enhance IE's ability to operate limited stop Dart's (not sure if IE have enough units to do this and have a 10 min frequency) or commuters to the south of the city centre while also allowing them to improve timings on the intercity service to Wexford.

Overtaking in Shankill won't resolve anything and will cost millions to complete. Killiney is on a cliff face.

What you could do for free is axe the Bray stop and overtake a DART waiting to depart on the middle track but will only provide a clear path to Dun Laoghaire at most.

IE 222

prinzeugen wrote: »

Campaign to get the line closed then! If its such a burden on you office folks then it should be closed and the track turned into a cycle-way?


541 per day is decent numbers compared to similar lines in the UK. It is still running for a reason. People need to use it. Its not running for the hell of it!


But Hey, lets mess around with the railways in Ireland! (except the one that YOU use).


You dont use the line so its a waste. Typical modern selfish attitude. Me, Me ,Me! and to hell with everyone else!

The line won't close and nobody is suggesting to close it. The current operations of the line and the refusal of transferring will be it's eventual down fall. The line can't expand and services are extremely restricted with DART. Using a mix of direct and non direct services is the only way of enhancing the service.

People want to get from A-B as quick as possible, they don't really care how they get there.

LeinsterDub

Podge_irl wrote: »

The point is that they are never going to invest upwards of €100m improving a line that 500 people use. Turning the trains back at Greystones means you can at least improve the frequency of the line essentially for free and that is the only "improvement" that is going to happen.

If there was some means for the trains to continue into Dublin and not get stuck behind DARTs then obviously it would be better. But there isn't.

We could just own and operate 50 of these instead
https://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft/helicopter/turbine/airbus-eurocopter/ec-120b/353296

howiya

LeinsterDub wrote: »

We could just own and operate 50 of these instead
https://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft/helicopter/turbine/airbus-eurocopter/ec-120b/353296

Wouldn't suit the needs of people who use the railway...

end of the road

Podge_irl wrote: »

The point is that they are never going to invest upwards of €100m improving a line that 500 people use.

except as we know, it's way more then 500 passengers using it. and anyway, the original poster who's post this specific part of the conversation came out of was talking about investment in the bray-connolly section, which regardless of whether wexford services exist or not needs some extra infrastructure because going forward, leaving the infrastructure as is, is not sustainible. and where are you getting the 100000000 from.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Turning the trains back at Greystones means you can at least improve the frequency of the line essentially for free and that is the only "improvement" that is going to happen.

except it won't be an improvement, and it will also kill the line. if improvements to the line happen, this won't be one of those "improvements" . it would be done as part of an agenda to shut the line.

Podge_irl wrote: »

If there was some means for the trains to continue into Dublin and not get stuck behind DARTs then obviously it would be better. But there isn't.

so? who mentioned the idea of not being stuck behind darts? being stuck behind other trains whether it be darts or anything else is a fact of life on a 2 track railway which has little flexibility and is frequently used by other trains.

Podge_irl

end of the road wrote: »

except as we know, it's way more then 500 passengers using it.

I'm sorry, how do we know that?

Why does the line need infrastructure investment? What's wrong with it?

Also twice as many trains isn't an improvement?

If your train is going to be stuck behind a DART you may as well be on the DART for all the difference it will make.

Isambard

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm sorry, how do we know that?

Why does the line need infrastructure investment? What's wrong with it?

Also twice as many trains isn't an improvement?

If your train is going to be stuck behind a DART you may as well be on the DART for all the difference it will make.

true but only if the Dart has come right through from Rosslare .Changing trains will lose some of the passengers and endanger the viability of the line.

end of the road

Podge_irl wrote: »

I'm sorry, how do we know that?

we know thanks to people who actually use the service regularly.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Why does the line need infrastructure investment? What's wrong with it?

the bray to connolly section is double track with few passing points, meaning little to no flexibility when things go wrong. it means that if 1 dart breaks down for example, there will be a huge backlog elsewhere. with more passing points and flexibility, then the issues can be minimised. it also opens up more capacity.

Podge_irl wrote: »

Also twice as many trains isn't an improvement?

not when you have to change to a slow suburban service to complete the journey into dublin, no . much easier just to take the car.

Podge_irl wrote: »

If your train is going to be stuck behind a DART you may as well be on the DART for all the difference it will make.

no, you may as well not be. direct limited stop service is quicker. speaking as an actual user who uses it regularly.

LeinsterDub

end of the road wrote: »

except as we know, it's way more then 500 passengers using it.

http://www.irishrail.ie/mwg-internal/de5fs23hu73ds/progress?id=phpiPXCk5YFzmQOaw7U2i2f0khvNkU2dOX2_4GwjA0s


1.6% of rail passengers,
Page 58.

Page 64 404,000 passengers in 2006

circa 7,700 per week
circa 1,100 per day

Podge_irl

Isambard wrote: »

true but only if the Dart has come right through from Rosslare .Changing trains will lose some of the passengers and endanger the viability of the line.

They can just leave it as it is - with an almost useless timetable. Given the option I'd take twice as many trains a day but if the people of Wexford don't want that fine.

Podge_irl

end of the road wrote: »

we know thanks to people who actually use the service regularly.

You travel with a ledger, walk up and down the train and count? On all services for a day.

That's quite some commitment.

Del.Monte

Podge_irl wrote: »

They can just leave it as it is - with an almost useless timetable. Given the option I'd take twice as many trains a day but if the people of Wexford don't want that fine.

What's your interest in the line given your location?

end of the road

Podge_irl wrote: »

They can just leave it as it is - with an almost useless timetable. Given the option I'd take twice as many trains a day but if the people of Wexford don't want that fine.

they can already improve the frequency with direct services to dublin if they wish.

Podge_irl

Del.Monte wrote: »

What's your interest in the line given your location?

I'm interested in public transport.

Anything else you feel should disqualify me from offering an opinion?

Podge_irl

end of the road wrote: »

they can already improve the frequency with direct services to dublin if they wish.

for a cost. They could put a train from Rosslare to Dublin every 30 minutes if they wanted but they're obviously not going to. It would require more trains and would potentially interfere with a 10 minute DART frequency.

Changing at Greystones would enable them to double the frequency essentially for free. It's that or keep the frequency the same as it is - which is too infrequent to be all that viable. Those are the only two actual options.