Clampdown on commercial tax?

Rippy

I recently renewed the tax on the van ( crewcab ) and it came boldy hand-stamped ‘GOODS ONLY’
My van is used mainly for my business but does serve as my family car too. Makes me think ia clamp down is coming . .....

Homer

In fairness people have been taking the p*ss for years so about time.
I’m looking at changing my commercial vehicle at the moment and have noticed some changes in the way new vehicles have been registered for tax and more importantly BIK purposes. Example.. 4 seat Ford Kuga registered before May 2018 qualifies for 5% but after May it’s the regular 30%

R.O.R

Homer wrote: »

In fairness people have been taking the p*ss for years so about time.
I’m looking at changing my commercial vehicle at the moment and have noticed some changes in the way new vehicles have been registered for tax and more importantly BIK purposes. Example.. 4 seat Ford Kuga registered before May 2018 qualifies for 5% but after May it’s the regular 30%

4 Seat Ford Kuga never qualified for 5% BIK.

4 Seat Ford Kuga registered before 30th July qualifies for 13.3% VRT and Commercial Road Tax. Registered 31st July onwards it's VRT'd and Taxed on Co2 emissions.

Under His Eye

The "Goods Only" stamp has been sporadically applied by some councils for the last 20 years. Nothing new.

ianob7

Rippy wrote:

I recently renewed the tax on the van ( crewcab ) and it came boldy hand-stamped ‘GOODS ONLY’ My van is used mainly for my business but does serve as my family car too. Makes me think ia clamp down is coming . .....

Can I ask what exactly was hand-stamped ?? This disc itself or was it a form ?

Eric Cartman

every commercial tax disk says GOODS in caps on it.... its to let parking wardens know who can use the loading bay.

demanufactured

how does it work if you wanted to tax say a 2012 ford focus van privately?

Does it then go of the c02 rules and is therefore cheaper than commercial tax?

Eric Cartman

demanufactured wrote: »

how does it work if you wanted to tax say a 2012 ford focus van privately?

Does it then go of the c02 rules and is therefore cheaper than commercial tax?

all commercial vehicles are done on a cc basis for private tax.

Homer

Homer wrote: »

............. 4 seat Ford Kuga registered before May 2018 qualifies for 5% but after May it’s the regular 30%

I'm really surprised at the amount of folk who think any vehicle with seats behind the front row qualified for 5% BIK.

punisher5112

Back in 2010 or there about is when it became very difficult and it's even harder now.

Eric Cartman

Augeo wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the amount of folk who think any vehicle with seats behind the front row qualified for 5% BIK.

shockingly to most (and what will eventually turn into the mother of all arse shaftings in the future) there are a lot of accountants who believe it.

Under His Eye

ianob7 wrote: »

Can I ask what exactly was hand-stamped ?? This disc itself or was it a form ?

It is normally stamped over the field that has the expiry date. It was very common 10 years ago.

Some councils bother with the handstamp, but its does say goods in small type so the traffic wardens/gardai can identify misuse.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

shockingly to most (and what will eventually turn into the mother of all arse shaftings in the future) there are a lot of accountants who believe it.

That and
- the car pooling lark when there's not a number of employees
- the car is stored at my business address which is also my home
Even though it's used as the family car ........."but we use the wife's car"

There will as you say quite likely be a huge clampdown on all this carry on, but I reckon the revenue will wait until it's considered worthwhile to do.

CptMackey

What I can never get over is the amount of range rover etc taxed as commercial with 5 seats being sold as low tax . Surely the first guard to stop you would question it

wexie

CptMackey wrote: »

What I can never get over is the amount of range rover etc taxed as commercial with 5 seats being sold as low tax . Surely the first guard to stop you would question it

From what I understand it's not so much the gardai you need to worry about but the customs fellas.

Plenty of 'vintage' vehicles on the roads as well, I mean why pay 333 euro if you can pay 56 right?

Saw a picture of a Merc on ZV plates on here a while ago.....a model they didn't start making till the mid 90's

EDIT : that reminds me of the chap yesterday looking for ways to put commercial tax on his BMW M3, said he was going to tell them that he would use it as a farm vehicle :pac:

Henry Ford III

wexie wrote: »

From what I understand it's not so much the gardai you need to worry about but the customs fellas.

Plenty of 'vintage' vehicles on the roads as well, I mean why pay 333 euro if you can pay 56 right?

Saw a picture of a Merc on ZV plates on here a while ago.....a model they didn't start making till the mid 90's

I've seen it.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d9/Tardis_BBC_Television_Center.jpg

Homer

Augeo wrote: »

I'm really surprised at the amount of folk who think any vehicle with seats behind the front row qualified for 5% BIK.

I was simply going by what a salesperson (yes I should have known better) told me! I have since spoken to my accountant and he has pointed me in the direction of revenues website which gives a strict definition of a van.

So am I correct in saying that absolutely none of the current crew cab vehicles, even the genuine ones not modified would attract the lower van rate of 5%?

R.O.R

Homer wrote: »

So am I correct in saying that absolutely none of the current crew cab vehicles, even the genuine ones not modified would attract the lower van rate of 5%?

100% Correct. Once it has windows or seats behind the driver, it doesn't meet Revenue's strict definition of a Van, and it's only Vans that qualify for 5% BIK.

I am reliably informed (but cannot find relevant legislation to quote) that Sole Traders are not liable for BIK - if you are set up as a sole trader then you can swank around in whatever you want and not have to fork out to the Gubberment for the privilege.

Eric Cartman

CptMackey wrote: »

What I can never get over is the amount of range rover etc taxed as commercial with 5 seats being sold as low tax . Surely the first guard to stop you would question it

Some ofthem are legitimately used for business purposes...

R.O.R

R.O.R wrote: »

...........

I am reliably informed (but cannot find relevant legislation to quote) that Sole Traders are not liable for BIK - if you are set up as a sole trader then you can swank around in whatever you want and not have to fork out to the Gubberment for the privilege.

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/benefit-in-kind-for-employers/private-use-of-company-cars/index.aspx

"The information in this section applies to you whether you are a company, a partnership or a sole trader."

https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/benefit-in-kind-for-employers/private-use-of-company-cars/how-to-calculate-the-value-of-the-benefit.aspx

There are many sole traders doing many strange things with vehicles and other expenses, many multinationals won't engage business relations with sole traders due to that
With a sole trader, there's no company so the car (or whatever) is in the individuals name, if they bought it 100% with money that they haven't paid income tax on things often get interesting down the line.

CptMackey

CptMackey wrote: »

What I can never get over is the amount of range rover etc taxed as commercial with 5 seats being sold as low tax . Surely the first guard to stop you would question it

Because they don't care and if you ever do find one that does you just need to have an answer ready, its very hard to prove you aren't doing something commercial even if its outside normal work hours and have kids in the car etc.

One of main reason people buy crew-cabs is because they can be used for family. I know a number of people who used to drive 2 seat commercials like landcrusiers but changed to hilux's etc when they had kids and the baby seat never leaves it. I know countless people (and have done myself in the past and intend to in the future) using commercials for partly or only private use and in decades of this have never heard a single person get even questioned.

Pkiernan

Eli Green Trucker wrote: »

One of main reason people buy crew-cabs is because they can be used for family. I know a number of people who used to drive 2 seat commercials like landcrusiers but changed to hilux's etc when they had kids and the baby seat never leaves it. I know countless people (and have done myself in the past and intend to in the future) using commercials for partly or only private use and in decades of this have never heard a single person get even questioned.

Yeah. They're called tax evaders.

Eric Cartman

Pkiernan wrote: »

Yeah. They're called tax evaders.

avoiders...
we say tax avoision....

TonyEVW

When first taxing all crew cabs or changing ownership a declaration has to be signed in the Garda station that it will be used to caryy company employees only. I wouldn't be too worried about the Garda enforcing this unless they need an excuse to stop you. It is the customs at a diesel checkpoint may go through you like a dose of salts and may use it to trigger a tax audit.

Pkiernan

Eric Cartman wrote: »

avoiders...
we say tax avoision....

LOL

Pkiernan

Pkiernan wrote: »

Yeah. They're called tax evaders.

Sensible people I call them avoiding our ridiculous private tax rates.

TonyEVW wrote: »

When first taxing all crew cabs or changing ownership a declaration has to be signed in the Garda station that it will be used to caryy company employees only. I wouldn't be too worried about the Garda enforcing this unless they need an excuse to stop you. It is the customs at a diesel checkpoint may go through you like a dose of salts and may use it to trigger a tax audit.

Customs don’t care about commercial tax either, sure loads of people go through customs checkpoints driving commercials with people in the car, baby seats, commuting etc and as I said never ever heard of a single person even questioned.

Pkiernan

Eli Green Trucker wrote: »

Sensible people I call them avoiding our ridiculous private tax rates.



Customs don’t care about commercial tax either, sure loads of people go through customs checkpoints driving commercials with people in the car, baby seats, commuting etc and as I said never ever heard of a single person even questioned.

It's tax evasion, pure and simple. But go on shure tis da Oirish way

GM228

Eli Green Trucker wrote: »

Customs don’t care about commercial tax either, sure loads of people go through customs checkpoints driving commercials with people in the car, baby seats, commuting etc and as I said never ever heard of a single person even questioned.

Despite motor tax coming under the remit of Revenue the enforcement of motor tax and related matters is a matter for Gardaí only.

Customs deal with VRT enforcement etc, but not motor tax.

gearoidol

Eric Cartman wrote: »

shockingly to most (and what will eventually turn into the mother of all arse shaftings in the future) there are a lot of accountants who believe it.

But has anyone ever been caught.,, Surely companies have had revenue audits the last 3-4 years with directors discoveries parked outside the door in plain sight and it obvious from company accounts the incorrect bik amount is being paid... If they retrospectively found it , it would be some bill ... say a 65k discovery where only 5% instead of 30% (someone doing small mileage) bik being paid ,over 3 years of ownership (€16,250 x 3) = €48,750 difference plus the same again as a penalty .. would be a nice €100,000 for the revenue ... all to drive a discovery ,,, some bill

relax carry on

gearoidol wrote: »

But has anyone ever been caught.,, Surely companies have had revenue audits the last 3-4 years with directors discoveries parked outside the door in plain sight and it obvious from company accounts the incorrect bik amount is being paid... If they retrospectively found it , it would be some bill ... say a 65k discovery where only 5% instead of 30% (someone doing small mileage) bik being paid ,over 3 years of ownership (€16,250 x 3) = €48,750 difference plus the same again as a penalty .. would be a nice €100,000 for the revenue ... all to drive a discovery ,,, some bill

Yes. Penalties vary depending if qualifying disclosure made.

gearoidol

gearoidol wrote: »

But has anyone ever been caught.,, Surely companies have had revenue audits the last 3-4 years with directors discoveries parked outside the door in plain sight and it obvious from company accounts the incorrect bik amount is being paid... If they retrospectively found it , it would be some bill ... say a 65k discovery where only 5% instead of 30% (someone doing small mileage) bik being paid ,over 3 years of ownership (€16,250 x 3) = €48,750 difference plus the same again as a penalty .. would be a nice €100,000 for the revenue ... all to drive a discovery ,,, some bill

I've heard it said that Revenue are monitoring this closely. There was a contractors project more than a few years ago in response to some IT and eng folk with Ltd companies vastly over claiming expenses, some had been doing so for decades.

Revenue were happy that after a year or two of focussing on this their endeavours had altered behaviour. ( "A review presented to the project board in October 2014 noted that, overall, the contractor project had been successful and that it had shown that abuse of the tax system was taking place in the contracting sector and that concerted action had been required to address taxpayer behaviour and ensure greater compliance in the future. " .......... http://www.audgen.gov.ie/documents/annualreports/2014/report/en/23%20revenues%20contractors%20project.pdf )

It is now no secret that many of the IT and eng folk are now driving around in various yolks that are correctly taxed at the €333 rate but should be treated as cars for BIK rather than vans. Many are paying the 5% rate incorrectly, some are no doubt badly advised by their accountants but come audit time it won't be the accountant footing the bill.