So Michael D IS running again!

Hotblack Desiato

Jameswhalley wrote: »

Varadkar went a step too far basically telling people which way to vote

Ehh you are aware that his party has endorsed a candidate in this election?

seamus

jay0109 wrote: »

The thing is, Casey had nothing to retract. He's entitled to question the awarding of ethnic status to Travellers. It's a valid argument.

Anyone is "entitled" to question anything.

Whether Casey is qualified to question it is the issue, and no, he's not. There is a mountain of well-considered social data as well as genetic evidence, that support the ethnic status assignment of travellers.

Peter Casey's "feelings" about it do not qualify as a "valid argument".

There is a bias/silence agenda in relation to Travellers. But Casey decided to attack the thing which makes him look like an idiot and a bigot. He could have pointed out the more obvious issue that people are not biased against travellers for no reason. They're biased because their experience of travellers has in the main been a bad one. They don't want travellers living near them, because their experience in the past tells them this is not what you want.

This is the elephant in the room that Pavee Point jump up and start shouting "racist" about whenever you bring it up.

But Peter Casey and others don't approach the debate in a considered way, willing to listen. They approach it from the "Travellers should all be locked up" point of view and then claim they're being silenced when they get a negative response.

c68zapdsm5i1ru

jay0109 wrote: »

That's true but the cries of racist the last few days and the attempts to shut down any debate on Travellers shows that while the Catholic church may be as good as gone, we have a new orthodoxy calling the shots today and woe betide anyone who disagrees with it

Yes, it's amazing how some people who think they're great liberals are often the most aggressive at shouting down and insulting anyone who dares to say anything that goes against their beliefs or is not considered by them to be PC.

FrancieBrady

Quentin Purple Bellboy wrote: »

Yes, it's amazing how some people who think they're great liberals are often the most aggressive at shouting down and insulting anyone who dares to say anything that goes against their beliefs or is not considered by them to be PC.

Casey is being presented with counter arguments. He has been asked to explain himself in something more than rabble rousing sounbytes, asked what solutions he has, asked to engage with people in one area that he used for a publicity stunt to reiterate the same soundbyte and nothing more.
Nobody has hounded him. He has run from all of the above and has now run from his own soundbyte.

Good luck with your new hero lads and lassies, I suspect it is all going to end in tears.

blanch152

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Indeed.

Yet the various threads about your woman cash had a very resonating sweeping slur bang off it, many of the most vocal posters being the same ones who are the first into a thread criticising FG or one of its policies to offer unequivocall defence of same, and proudly announce their voting preferences (being FG)

Don't take my word for it, check the threads out yourself.

Boards confuses the shyte out of me at times.

Strangely, some of the people on here most stringently critical of Casey are the non-SF voting republicans, rather than the example you give.

pixelburp

So in short summary: a businessman runs for President as a wheeze, a campaign remarkable only in being full of brainfarts and waffle. And in the case of his Irish Social Media idea, generational ignorance. Eventually he happens to talk on a hot button topic with bluster and spoofery - and suddenly becomes an accidental political Messiah over one single issue.

That he's suspending his campaign to me speaks of him panicking, realising he's out of his depth and misunderstood the topography of Irish society. Who knew speaking off the cuff could land you in trouble?

There's a serious discussion to have over Travellers in our society - but a rich waffling expat isn't the one to lead it. And our votes shouldn't be so cheaply sold for the sake of a strata that, 10 years ago, were collective pariahs alongside bankers over their wealth and power (rightly or wrongly)

Loafing Oaf

Hurrache wrote: »

I don't buy into this whole liberal agenda nonsense.

But I do think the media, published and aired, in their rush to condemn and accuse him of being racist, are actually creating the atmosphere for someone with a far right agenda to step in and get some reasonable numbers.

Many of the commentators I've heard have said that we shouldn't even be talking about such things, as if it's an idea that shouldn't even be entertained.

This will have some people saying hang on, we feel this is a valid issue to be discussed by our representatives, yet they're all claiming we shouldn't, or don't, have such worries.

So once someone willing to bring this up, regardless of their other policies, will become attractive.

Well whether Casey enjoys a significant bounce in the polls in the wake of his intervention will be a test of this, won't it?

Rhineshark

B0jangles wrote: »

Casey'll probably pop back up in a couple of days to say that he really really was going to withdraw but the flood of support he's received from ordinary decent people has convinced him that it's his Moral Duty to stay in the race.

Obvious Chancer is Obvious.

You'd think he was screamingly obvious but apparently not!

FrancieBrady

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Well whether Casey enjoys a significant bounce in the polls in the wake of his intervention will be a test of this, won't it?

Of course he'll get a bounce. He purposefully set out to get it from a section of the community nobody else wants a 'bounce' from.

Adamcp898

I confess that I haven't been out and about taking the temperature of the populace, but it feels a bit like there's a lot more people wringing their hands over the possibility that Casey's comments may have resonated with a few than there are actual people out there suddenly pumping their fists in support of them. I could be wrong but I wouldn't be taking a message board as an accurate representation of public opinion either.

And then there's a few more who, willfully or not, are pretending that it's a conversation about the specifics of ethnic characterisation and not about a broader issue.

Eric Cartman

Casey "I dont want people to elect me under the basis of one statement" I like how he realises that its literally the one thing going for him,

So now he has two choices, resign from the election or, come back with a lot more statements like that in order to gain even more support.

Zubeneschamali

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Casey "I dont want people to elect me under the basis of one statement" I like how he realises that its literally the one thing going for him

I think the relevant part is "I don't want people to elect me".

He is a bit alarmed that some people are trumpeting him as a hero because they share this view of Travellers - he never had any intention of winning.

FrancieBrady

He's getting destroyed on News At One.

walshb

Casey needs to step down...

Cannot have his views tarnishing a section of society like this, whether he speaks some truth or not. Not all travelers are "bad" or "unruly" people. His comments are dangerous.....and for a man running for the office of the President they are bang out of order. Airing them so publicly?:rolleyes:

We all have views and opinions about this that and the other, but people need to show restraint at times. They need to show diplomacy and decorum and decency...

An Ciarraioch

Adamcp898 wrote: »

I confess that I haven't been out and about taking the temperature of the populace, but it feels a bit like there's a lot more people wringing their hands over the possibility that Casey's comments may have resonated with a few than there are actual people out there suddenly pumping their fists in support of them. I could be wrong but I wouldn't be taking a message board as an accurate representation of public opinion either.

And then there's a few more who, willfully or not, are pretending that it's a conversation about the specifics of ethnic characterisation and not about a broader issue.

In many ways, it's healthier that his name will be on the ballot paper regardless, as the potential percentage of the electorate that could vote for a populist party can then be gauged. Anti-immigration candidates have generally fared poorly in GEs, though one must add the caveat that Ireland has comparatively low levels of Muslim migration.

Hurrache

walshb wrote: »

Casey needs to step down...

Cannot have his views tarnishing a section of society like this, whether he speaks some truth or not. Not all travelers are "bad" or "unruly" people. His comments are dangerous.....and for a man running for the office of the President they are bang out of order. Airing them so publicly?:rolleyes:

We all have views and opinions about this that and the other, but people need to show restraint at times. They need to show diplomacy and decorum and decency...

What's dangerous is saying we shouldn't talk about this, disregarding for now his clumsy approach. If gives credence to far right politics if it's not allowed to be debated in 'mainstream' media or politics.

touts

Disappointed but not surprised that Casey feels he is being forced out of the race. There is no support for anyone right of center in the Liberal Leftist Tyranny that Ireland has become. Anyone who speaks the truth on topics such as travellers finds themselves slandered and villified by the Dublin media and political elite. I haven't heard a single real person who doesn't agree 100% with his stance on travellers but if you listened only to the media you would think the nation was against him.

Honest people like Casey need protection and support. Steve Bannon may be an odious toad but I am becoming more and more convinced that we need his European "movement" to set up here ASAP.

An Ciarraioch

Hurrache wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

Casey needs to step down...

Cannot have his views tarnishing a section of society like this, whether he speaks some truth or not. Not all travelers are "bad" or "unruly" people. His comments are dangerous.....and for a man running for the office of the President they are bang out of order. Airing them so publicly?:rolleyes:

We all have views and opinions about this that and the other, but people need to show restraint at times. They need to show diplomacy and decorum and decency...

What's dangerous is saying we shouldn't talk about this, disregarding for now his clumsy approach. If gives credence to far right politics if it's not allowed to be debated in 'mainstream' media or politics.

Which is how my post above should be read, rather than expressing any sympathy with Casey - it would be complacent to assume we are any more liberal than the rest of Europe.

walshb

Hurrache wrote: »

What's dangerous is saying we shouldn't talk about this, disregarding for now his clumsy approach. If gives credence to far right politics if it's not allowed to be debated in 'mainstream' media or politics.

He tarnished a whole section of society. That is absolutely reckless, wrong and dangerous....end of.

And the contempt he has (for travellers) and arrogance he has sees that he cannot even admit to it and take it back and apologize.

If that was black people he tarnished there would be uproar! And rightly so.

Cork Boy 53

Even if Casey does suspend his campaign, his name will still be on the ballot paper on election day. It obviously won`t happen but if, by some miracle, he were to be elected I wonder would he decline the Presidency considering he never expected to win in the first place.

RandomName2

It really seems that Varadkar is acting outside of his mandate to say that the public should specifically not vote for Casey in the presidential contest.

https://www.joe.ie/news/leo-varadkar-heavily-critical-peter-caseys-comments-travellers-644877

jay0109

RandomName2 wrote: »

It really seems that Varadkar is acting outside of his mandate to say that the public should specifically not vote for Casey in the presidential contest.

https://www.joe.ie/news/leo-varadkar-heavily-critical-peter-caseys-comments-travellers-644877

And not a peep in the media about it! Way outside his remit to be talking like that

walshb

RandomName2 wrote: »

It really seems that Varadkar is acting outside of his mandate to say that the public should specifically not vote for Casey in the presidential contest.

https://www.joe.ie/news/leo-varadkar-heavily-critical-peter-caseys-comments-travellers-644877

I agree. He needs to show restraint and keep out of it....

FrancieBrady

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Even if Casey does suspend his campaign, his name will still be on the ballot paper on election day. It obviously won`t happen but if, by some miracle, he were to be elected I wonder would he decline the Presidency considering he never expected to win in the first place.

Not based on his radio interview anyhow. But who knows, he seems to be a candle in the wind at the minute.

Hurrache

walshb wrote: »

He tarnished a whole section of society. That is absolutely reckless, wrong and dangerous....end of.

As I said

Hurrache wrote: »

disregarding for now his clumsy approach.

jay0109 wrote: »

And not a peep in the media about it! Way outside his remit to be talking like that

You literally just read it in the media.

walshb

Hurrache wrote: »

As I said







You literally just read it in the media.

Attributing it to being clumsy doesn't change it.....

seamus

RandomName2 wrote: »

It really seems that Varadkar is acting outside of his mandate to say that the public should specifically not vote for Casey in the presidential contest.

jay0109 wrote: »

And not a peep in the media about it! Way outside his remit to be talking like that

How so?

Is it not typical that any politician or TD will support/criticise presidential candidates?

There have been enough attempts from backbench TDs to have a go at Michael D - why are you trying to censor Varadkar?

Jameswhalley

RandomName2 wrote: »

It really seems that Varadkar is acting outside of his mandate to say that the public should specifically not vote for Casey in the presidential contest.

https://www.joe.ie/news/leo-varadkar-heavily-critical-peter-caseys-comments-travellers-644877

I made this point and got shot down for it

Varadkar should have stated his view and left it at that,not directing voting on the back of it.

jay0109

seamus wrote: »

How so?

Is it not typical that any politician or TD will support/criticise presidential candidates?

There have been enough attempts from backbench TDs to have a go at Michael D - why are you trying to censor Varadkar?

Because he's not a mere TD! I know he doesn't act like a Taoiseach all the time, but that's what he is

AGC

touts wrote: »

Disappointed but not surprised that Casey feels he is being forced out of the race. There is no support for anyone right of center in the Liberal Leftist Tyranny that Ireland has become. Anyone who speaks the truth on topics such as travellers finds themselves slandered and villified by the Dublin media and political elite. I haven't heard a single real person who doesn't agree 100% with his stance on travellers but if you listened only to the media you would think the nation was against him.

Honest people like Casey need protection and support. Steve Bannon may be an odious toad but I am becoming more and more convinced that we need his European "movement" to set up here ASAP.

There is support in places for him but anyone who did not know travellers are an ethnic minority should not be elected to any office.

He seems genuinely clueless on basic info he should know.