So Michael D IS running again!

Royal Legend · 19-10-2018 6:37pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I think we need filter out news of national important and news that might cause a stir. It was hardly the burning question of the country ffs. The traveler thing is a chancer of an egotist looking for attention. It's shameful behaviour for anyone to engage in.

I dont think it was attention seeking, just a opinion he gave that has been and is still being jumped on by the media. What is strange is that the media and Leo are downing him at every opportunity, but the general public are backing him, its like the media want people to change their minds about Casey

Yet, Michael D gets a free ride on his expenses, the media dont want to upset Michael D the poor ol divil

Hotblack Desiato · 19-10-2018 6:37pm

RandomName2 wrote: »

Is something of a different nature though.

It really, really isn't.

To be honest though I can't think of a party leader saying that the public shouldn't vote for another party.

Happens all the time.

I wonder what you think the Republic of Ireland Act has to do with the presidency, apart from transferring to it the powers previously exercised by the King of Ireland in relation to external affairs?

FrancieBrady · 19-10-2018 6:38pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

Interesting

Whether he continues or pulls out, at this stage he has my vote, not because of his comments, but for his honesty, sadly lacking in our current incumbent and some of the other candidates

Michael D stated this morning that his campaign will cost around €360k, who is funding him? Is it Lab/FG/FF or somebody else or out of his own pocket, seeing as he is now a millionaire

Michael D Higgins said he would be funding his campaign "primarily from small individual donations." He added that he would also be contributing a significant sum from his personal savings - to the tune of €110,000.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0930/999039-presidential-election/

Labour have said they plan to spend 70,000 on his re-election also. I don;t know if FG or FF who say they are supporting him are contributing to his campaign. I suspect they would have to.

James Brown · 19-10-2018 6:45pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

I dont think it was attention seeking, just a opinion he gave that has been and is still being jumped on by the media. What is strange is that the media and Leo are downing him at every opportunity, but the general public are backing him, its like the media want people to change their minds about Casey

Yet, Michael D gets a free ride on his expenses, the media dont want to upset Michael D the poor ol divil

Are they? How do you know? Many of us have had run ins with a traveler or two, but it would be the height of ignorance to slate every one of them based on that. Not to forget, Casey was telling lies regarding these particular travelers. That's pretty important.

Michael D. was quizzed and responded. What free ride are you talking about? Do you want, as you say, for him to be ' still being jumped on by the media'?

Royal Legend · 19-10-2018 6:55pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

Are they? How do you know? Many of us have had run ins with a traveler or two, but it would be the height of ignorance to slate every one of them based on that. Not to forget, Casey was telling lies regarding these particular travelers. That's pretty important.

Michael D. was quizzed and responded. What free ride are you talking about? Do you want, as you say, for him to be ' still being jumped on by the media'?

But he has still not answered the question properly on the expenses, he will after he is re-elected, now he is saying that the Audit team will publish a comment, not a detailed account of what and where he has spent?

Rhineshark · 19-10-2018 6:56pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

Interesting

Whether he continues or pulls out, at this stage he has my vote, not because of his comments, but for his honesty, sadly lacking in our current incumbent and some of the other candidates

Michael D stated this morning that his campaign will cost around €360k, who is funding him? Is it Lab/FG/FF or somebody else or out of his own pocket, seeing as he is now a millionaire

Excellent, someone voting for Peter Casey for his honesty but not RE Travellers specifically. So finally someone who can shed some light on this perplexing statement:

"I was part of the Good Friday Peace Delegation to the White House that ended up with the team that, sorry, that discussed and ended up making the recommendations that essentially ended up with the Good Friday Peace Agreement."

Any idea what he's talking about here? He keeps referencing it but never quite managing to give his role. But an honest man wouldn't keep trying to imply that he was more important to the process than he was just to trick people so he must have been some sort of useful-sized cheese..

"You know, actually, one of the more extreme suggestions was that we put a ban on hiring in Dublin, in the technology centre, except for replacement. In other words, Microsoft announced that they were creating, and the minister announced it, 250 new jobs. They’re not new jobs. What they’re going to do is they’re going to borrow the people from the 250 people will come from other companies in Dublin."

Bit word salad but apparently coherency doesn't matter in a president. Any idea if he's telling the truth about the "extreme suggestion"? Or indeed who "they" are and/or if it is indeed a poaching ploy? How does he know that and if it's the case for Microsoft, isn't it the same for any other jobs created in Dublin? How do you "borrow" staff anyway?

"Yeah, I mean, the ridiculous situation down in Cork where the Travellers were refusing four-bedroomed houses because they weren’t being given stables with them. I mean you’ve got to step back and ask yourself. I mean when did…”

Well, Honest Peter Casey said it so it must be true (even if wrong county). I mean, you'd think from reading it that "they" had built an estate of houses and all Travellers were refusing based on stables, rather than one group of families who had lived the previous 40 years on a camp outside the town - and built their own stables -
who refused as they had nowhere to graze their horses.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/travellers-and-council-clash-over-grazing-land-for-horses-1.3663379%3fmode=amp (if anyone actually wants context).

And then of course was the remark about Higgins protesting a halting site which, despite Casey's extreme honesty, turned out to be flatly untrue. Or it was absolutely true and reality is lying maybe.

Seriously. If you're not voting for the all-new Irish Facebook or the Women's Council of Whatever or his amazing ability to dive for golf balls (which he totes did because he wouldn't lie and I have a bridge to sell you in Antarctica) that he's fired into a lake, what does he have going for him? The Traveller comments is really about it.

FrancieBrady · 19-10-2018 7:00pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

But he has still not answered the question properly on the expenses, he will after he is re-elected, now he is saying that the Audit team will publish a comment, not a detailed account of what and where he has spent?

They aren't 'his' espenses. They are the 'expenses' of the presidency. Spent by every president since this fund was established in 1937 and massively increased under Enda Kenny's government, I think. (maybe wrong on that, but it was hugely increased lately)

Royal Legend · 19-10-2018 7:04pm

Rhineshark wrote: »

Excellent, someone voting for Peter Casey for his honesty but not RE Travellers specifically. So finally someone who can shed some light on this perplexing statement:

"I was part of the Good Friday Peace Delegation to the White House that ended up with the team that, sorry, that discussed and ended up making the recommendations that essentially ended up with the Good Friday Peace Agreement."

Any idea what he's talking about here?

"You know, actually, one of the more extreme suggestions was that we put a ban on hiring in Dublin, in the technology centre, except for replacement. In other words, Microsoft announced that they were creating, and the minister announced it, 250 new jobs. They’re not new jobs. What they’re going to do is they’re going to borrow the people from the 250 people will come from other companies in Dublin."

Bit word salad but apparently coherency doesn't matter in a president. Any idea if he's telling the truth about the "extreme suggestion"? Or indeed who "they" are and/or if it is indeed a poaching ploy? How does he know that and if it's the case for Microsoft, isn't it the same for any other jobs created in Dublin? How do you "borrow" staff anyway?

"Yeah, I mean, the ridiculous situation down in Cork where the Travellers were refusing four-bedroomed houses because they weren’t being given stables with them. I mean you’ve got to step back and ask yourself. I mean when did…”

Well, Honest Peter Casey said it so it must be true (even if wrong county). I mean, you'd think from reading it that "they" had built an estate of houses and all Travellers were refusing based on stables, rather than one group of families who had lived the previous 40 years on a camp outside the town - and built their own stables -
who refused as they had nowhere to graze their horses.
https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/travellers-and-council-clash-over-grazing-land-for-horses-1.3663379%3fmode=amp (if anyone actually wants context).

And then of course was the remark about Higgins protesting a halting site which, despite Casey's extreme honesty, turned out to be flatly untrue. Or it was absolutely true and reality is lying maybe.

Seriously. If you're not voting for the all-new Irish Facebook or the Women's Council of Whatever or his amazing ability to dive for golf balls (which he totes did because he wouldn't lie and I have a bridge to sell you in Antarctica) that he's fired into a lake, what does he have going for him? The Traveller comments is really about it.

The travellers were in Tipperary by the way. You seem to know a lot about Michael D, whereas I see a champagne socialist, living the life, an intellectual that should in his opinion not be questioned about anything.

Not saying the man is perfect like the media make out about Michael D, but in my humble opinion he is a lot straighter than most of the rest.

richiepurgas · 19-10-2018 7:08pm

On the radio today, Casey said he was standing for the office after promising his mother that he would.
If only Big Tom were alive .....

An Ciarraioch · 19-10-2018 7:15pm

Latest Paddy Power odds:

MDH 1/33
Liadh Ní Ríada 20/1
Seán Gallagher 20/1
Joan Freeman 33/1
Peter Casey 66/1
"Gavin" Duffy 100/1

Rhineshark · 19-10-2018 7:16pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

The travellers were in Tipperary by the way. You seem to know a lot about Michael D, whereas I see a champagne socialist, living the life, an intellectual that should in his opinion not be questioned about anything.

Not saying the man is perfect like the media make out about Michael D, but in my humble opinion he is a lot straighter than most of the rest.

Yes, I quoted Peter Casey saying they were in Cork and commented he had the wrong county.

And sure whatever, but you're not voting for Higgins, you're making your claims about Casey and his honesty. Can you explain any of the examples given?

Adamcp898 · 19-10-2018 7:49pm

I know one thing, there's one candidate who would label all of this "semantics"

James Brown · 19-10-2018 7:59pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

The travellers were in Tipperary by the way. You seem to know a lot about Michael D, whereas I see a champagne socialist, living the life, an intellectual that should in his opinion not be questioned about anything.

Not saying the man is perfect like the media make out about Michael D, but in my humble opinion he is a lot straighter than most of the rest.

That old chestnut. Any socialist should be living by the side of the road to have any legitimacy? Give over.

Michael D. explained his expenses and the costs associated with the office. There's no smoking gun here despite all the smoke being blown. You would think he's the Aga Khan.
He's no different than any previous President as regards his expenses and who looks after them.

Rhineshark · 19-10-2018 8:07pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

That old chestnut. Any socialist should be living by the side of the road to have any legitimacy? Give over.
.

I rather suspect most people who use "champagne socialist" unironically also think that "cultural marxist" has a meaning.

Royal Legend · 19-10-2018 8:16pm

Rhineshark wrote: »

I rather suspect most people who use "champagne socialist" unironically also think that "cultural marxist" has a meaning.

not asking him to live by the side of the road, but to know of the €317k expenses, but does not feel he is responsible for how it is spent, seeing as it spent in his name, is laziness at the very least and not consistent imo with so called a socialist president of the people. He comes across as not too bothered on how it has been spent, plus aggrieved that anyone even questions him

Rhineshark · 19-10-2018 10:06pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

not asking him to live by the side of the road, but to know of the €317k expenses, but does not feel he is responsible for how it is spent, seeing as it spent in his name, is laziness at the very least and not consistent imo with so called a socialist president of the people. He comes across as not too bothered on how it has been spent, plus aggrieved that anyone even questions him

Well, his office is, but yes, he should have a general idea. But it's not actually his purview to audit and/or release accounts. His job is to be the president, which is mostly meeting people, opening things, generally being a friendly representative to the world and doing what the government tells them to. Attacking him as a candidate/person based on a general rule (even if I don't personally agree with it) is a bit off tbh. Posters keep repeating dishonest without backing it up, just referencing, apparently, this story. Which is really not much to do with him. Were Robinson and McAleese dishonest on the same basis? He wanted a reduced salary and isn't taking various pensions from lecturing which is fair enough.

Unless I've missed an actual example of dishonesty or anything specifically dubious regarding the account (bar it's untransparent existence), it all seems a bit overwrought, not least as I'm pretty sure this started off as a mud-sling from another candidate. And especially if the better option appears to be Peter Casey!

I'm pretty sure only people who already mistrust him call him the "socialist president of the people". I can't recall seeing it on any other occasion, but it's only ever popped up on boards to me.

By the way, I was a bit overly sarcastic in a post above, apologies for my tone. I do find the sudden recast of Casey, a man who has spoken mostly ..wild bibble so far, the clown of the race, as a potential president and teller of truth in particular a few days after he slanders the Travellers wholesale, a bit much. But there's no need to be rude about it.

Royal Legend · 19-10-2018 10:16pm

Rhineshark wrote: »

Well, his office is, but yes, he should have a general idea. But it's not actually his purview to audit and/or release accounts. His job is to be the president, which is mostly meeting people, opening things, generally being a friendly representative to the world and doing what the government tells them to. Attacking him as a candidate/person based on a general rule (even if I don't personally agree with it) is a bit off tbh. Posters keep repeating dishonest without backing it up, just referencing, apparently, this story. Which is really not much to do with him. Were Robinson and McAleese dishonest on the same basis? He wanted a reduced salary and isn't taking various pensions from lecturing which is fair enough.

Unless I've missed an actual example of dishonesty or anything specifically dubious regarding the account (bar it's untransparent existence), it all seems a bit overwrought, not least as I'm pretty sure this started off as a mud-sling from another candidate. And especially if the better option appears to be Peter Casey!

I'm pretty sure only people who already mistrust him call him the "socialist president of the people". I can't recall seeing it on any other occasion, but it's only ever popped up on boards to me.

I never used the word dishonest, lazy, nonchalant, superior would be my take

He has a TD and a Senators pension, which as far as I am aware he cannot draw down while he is president, not sure about a lecturers pension, but if he gets these and then one for being president he will be earning a pretty penny

Peoples president is one that is used in the media, both general and social

Goldengirl · 19-10-2018 10:25pm

This post has been deleted.

Capt'n Midnight · 20-10-2018 12:12am

Here's a thought.

Most of the candidates going on about how they'll save money in the presidency won't be getting their election expenses.

And yes we had a referendum over changes to judges pay because the Constitution doesn't let the Dáil control a president or a judge by tightening the purse strings.

Rhineshark · 20-10-2018 7:04am

Royal Legend wrote: »

I never used the word dishonest, lazy, nonchalant, superior would be my take

Royal Legend wrote: »

Whether he continues or pulls out, at this stage he has my vote, not because of his comments, but for his honesty, sadly lacking in our current incumbent and some of the other candidates

Still not managed to give any sort of reason though. (And this stuff is fact-checkable by going back two pages and reading it btw.)

He has a TD and a Senators pension, which as far as I am aware he cannot draw down while he is president, not sure about a lecturers pension, but if he gets these and then one for being president he will be earning a pretty penny

Thought I had sonething a bit off about the pension. If it's mandatory he refuse the Sen/TD pension, fair enough. Still requested a pay cut and I don't think he takes his lecturer pension.

How is this dishon- sorry, "a lack of honesty" though?

Peoples president is one that is used in the media, both general and social

A phrase used before which has no bearing on political position and not, let us note, the phrase you actually used, which was "so-called socialist president of the people". Pretty sure the same ref (the one you're pretending to have said, not what you actually said) was used for the Marys in their time too. That is a far more neutral phrase.

Still not managed to explain Casey's honesty, I see. Or indeed how Higgins is lack-of-honest. Just snarks and then diving off into a different subject/flat denial when challenged. It's not exactly subtle.

The weird thing is, I'm not even particularly defending Higgins. I just want people to actually say what their issue is with his character and honesty rather than making insinuations they can't or won't back up. I've made it very clear exactly why I don't think much of Casey with quotes and examples. They are there to be argued or refuted (I may not agree with a refutation but I'll respect a well-thought argument on it). The Higgins dirt so far isn't even concrete enough to be argued. There's just no facts to work with, only consciously blown smoke.

The only argument that at least is an argument is finding him superior and arrogant. Fair enough, it's a subjective assessment and I'm neutral on it but I don't deny your right to find him so. Claims regarding his (any candidate's) honesty should be backed up though. Honesty is too important to be the subject of only vague allegations.

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-10-2018 7:14am

Rhineshark wrote: »

Still not managed to give any sort of reason though. (And this stuff is fact-checkable by going back two pages and reading it btw.)

Thought I had sonething a bit off about the pension. If it's mandatory he refuse the Sen/TD pension, fair enough. Still requested a pay cut and I don't think he takes his lecturer pension.

How is this dishon- sorry, "a lack of honesty" though?

A phrase used before which has no bearing on political position and not, let us note, the phrase you actually used, which was "so-called socialist president of the people". Pretty sure the same ref (the one you're pretending to have said, not what you actually said) was used for the Marys in their time too. That is a far more neutral phrase.

Still not managed to explain Casey's honesty, I see. Or indeed how Higgins is lack-of-honest. Just snarks and then diving off into a different subject/flat denial when challenged. It's not exactly subtle.

The weird thing is, I'm not even particularly defending Higgins. I just want people to actually say what their issue is with his character and honesty rather than making insinuations they can't or won't back up. I've made it very clear exactly why I don't think much of Casey with quotes and examples. They are there to be argued or refuted. The Higgins dirt so far isn't even concrete enough to be argued. There's just no facts to work with, only consciously blown smoke.

The only argument that at least is an argument is finding him superior and arrogant. Fair enough, it's a subjective assessment and I'm neutral on it but I don't deny your right to find him so. Claims regarding his honesty should be backed up though.

I think 7 years is enough for anyone to hold a ceremonial position and therefore will not vote for him.

I also dislike the media love in with him.

I don't agree with a some of his opinions but I could say that about them all.

Rhineshark · 20-10-2018 7:26am

naughtb4 wrote: »

I think 7 years is enough for anyone to hold a ceremonial position and therefore will not vote for him.

I also dislike the media love in with him.

I don't agree with a some of his opinions but I could say that about them all.

See, that's an opinion I can respect. Specific reasons, ymmv on the weight/importance given to each but that's a personal thing. My opinion of each of the Dragons is somewhat shaded by there being *three* Dragons in the race. I can grant that, if coincidence, it's a bit unfair that my opinion of each individual is lowered by it, but that's personal opinion. I don't like and can't warm to Gallagher and I think Casey is at best a nitwit and a mudslinger with odd notions but Duffy seems thus far to have acquitted himself decently (also seems to be lowest in the polls as now the Other Dragon rather than PC :P)

It's the vague insinuations completely (at least by this thread) unbacked by anything remotely resembling a fact, repeated ad nauseum and either wiggled around or ignored when questioned on that I can't abide.

ThunbergsAreGo · 20-10-2018 7:58am

Rhineshark wrote: »

It's the vague insinuations completely (at least by this thread) unbacked by anything remotely resembling a fact, repeated ad nauseum and either wiggled around or ignored when questioned on that I can't abide.

That's exactly how I feel about most of MDHs answers from the other night, alot of flowery words but unbacked by anything of substance or achievements. If he was an inner city dub he wouldn't be half as revered. Genuinely don't get the love in.

But the nothing of substance is applicable to all of them.

Alan_P · 20-10-2018 10:48am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They aren't 'his' espenses. They are the 'expenses' of the presidency. Spent by every president since this fund was established in 1937 and massively increased under Enda Kenny's government, I think. (maybe wrong on that, but it was hugely increased lately)

You're entirely wrong on that, on both counts. They were last set in 1998, which is hardly lately, and that would have been under a Fianna Fail government.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2018 10:56am

Alan_P wrote: »

You're entirely wrong on that, on both counts. They were last set in 1998, which is hardly lately, and that would have been under a Fianna Fail government.

Yep, I couldn't check it when I posted that. Thanks for the correction.

Sam Russell · 20-10-2018 11:38am

Royal Legend wrote: »

I never used the word dishonest, lazy, nonchalant, superior would be my take

He has a TD and a Senators pension, which as far as I am aware he cannot draw down while he is president, not sure about a lecturers pension, but if he gets these and then one for being president he will be earning a pretty penny

Peoples president is one that is used in the media, both general and social

He can (but chooses not to) draw his pensions he earned while sitting in the Senate, Dail or as a Minister. He does (I understand) draw a pension from GUI Galway from when he was a lecturer. He would be entitled to draw all these pensions. He also draws a reduced salary as President.

The Presidential expense account the other candidates are picking on is used to run the Aras, for activities such as garden parties that allow the President to do those things the other candidates say they will do if they ever become President.

I think if you want dishonesty, you should ask the other candidates how they will finance the airy fairy notions of presenting themselves to the Irish public over the next seven years in the unlikely event of them becoming President.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2018 11:42am

Sam Russell wrote: »

He can (but chooses not to) draw his pensions he earned while sitting in the Senate, Dail or as a Minister. He does (I understand) draw a pension from GUI Galway from when he was a lecturer. He would be entitled to draw all these pensions. He also draws a reduced salary as President.

The Presidential expense account the other candidates are picking on is used to run the Aras, for activities such as garden parties that allow the President to do those things the other candidates say they will do if they ever become President.

I think if you want dishonesty, you should ask the other candidates how they will finance the airy fairy notions of presenting themselves to the Irish public over the next seven years in the unlikely event of them becoming President.

I think Pat Kenny clarified the pension thing. He isn't entitled to draw down some of them.

Sam Russell · 20-10-2018 11:59am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think Pat Kenny clarified the pension thing. He isn't entitled to draw down some of them.

Pat Kenny is not an expert on Government pension entitlements.

It depends on what year the pension entitlement is earned. The rules were changed some years back, but MDH earned his pensions before the rules were changed, so he would be entitled to draw them down. I believe Brian Cowan (aged 58) and Bertie Ahern (aged 67) draw hefty pensions and have done for many years.

MDH said that he would not consider it right for him to do draw those pensions while he is President.

FrancieBrady · 20-10-2018 12:06pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Pat Kenny is not an expert on Government pension entitlements.

It depends on what year the pension entitlement is earned. The rules were changed some years back, but MDH earned his pensions before the rules were changed, so he would be entitled to draw them down. I believe Brian Cowan (aged 58) and Bertie Ahern (aged 67) draw hefty pensions and have done for many years.

MDH said that he would not consider it right for him to do draw those pensions while he is President.

Kenny said: He isn't entitled to some of them when he is sitting as President.

Where are you getting your info from. Not doubting what you are saying, just want to know what it is based on.

richiepurgas · 20-10-2018 1:22pm

Royal Legend wrote: »

I never used the word dishonest, lazy, nonchalant, superior would be my take

He has a TD and a Senators pension, which as far as I am aware he cannot draw down while he is president, not sure about a lecturers pension, but if he gets these and then one for being president he will be earning a pretty penny

Peoples president is one that is used in the media, both general and social

He would be entitled to draw down his Oireachtas pension while serving as president but chose not to do so as well as taking a pay cut as president of over 20%.
I remember reading one time about the late FF MEP Neil Blaney who was both an MEP and TD at the same time for a number of years as well as drawing down a pension from his time as government minister. He was tackled about it at a press conference and gave a "cos I'm worth it" type of answer.

So Michael D IS running again!

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