So Michael D IS running again!

Zubeneschamali

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'run her to secure her EU seat' theory doesn't really stack up.

That's what you say now, but when she does 8% or whatever in this election, and a Sinn Féin spokesman explains that she ran to raise her profile for the Euros, it will suddenly stack up really well.

FrancieBrady

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

That's what you say now, but when she does 8% or whatever in this election, and a Sinn Féin spokesman explains that she ran to raise her profile for the Euros, it will suddenly stack up really well.

They may say that, but it wouldn't stack up imo looking at the figures.

Loafing Oaf

Macdarack wrote: »

These polls are a load of boll@x, casey is doing much better then 2pc,and Higgins is doing less the 69pc especially since this weeks revelations.

And presumably you know this by looking into your heart, Dev-style...

Adamcp898

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

He's of Indian ethnicity. Is this being disputed anywhere?

Have we now gone so full blown snowflake and politically correct that mentioning someone's ethnicity is taboo?

What you had quoted was essentially a tabloid article, and that was the focus of my post.

Leo Varadkar was born in Ireland, and is very much Irish, no matter where his father is from. For Casey to describe him as Indian and not Irish is just begging for someone to work the racial angle of the story - as if one needed any more excuse.

Casey managed to accidentally bungle his way onto an issue which apparently does resonate with the electorate, something which none of his opponents have been able to do incidentally and helps his cause further. But he did so, whether intentionally or not, by using language which is technically incorrect and as we so often see, the PR aspects of campaigns are about minding your p's and q's while waiting for others to forget their own.

What's done is done though and now he should have been focusing on the specifics of the issue, i.e. who is entitled to get what from the state and why, attempting to distance himself from the ethnicity debate and "who said what racist when" aspects that can still damage any potential gains.

But here he is quoted labeling the most senior politician in the country as being of a different nationality to what he actually is...............when it doesn't even hold any relevance to the conversation.

So no to your question, this isn't about political correctness, snowflakes, or even millennials for that matter. It's just another example of bungling incompetence from one of our 'Presidential' candidates.

McMurphy

Adamcp898 wrote: »

What you had quoted was essentially a tabloid article, and that was the focus of my post.

Leo Varadkar was born in Ireland, and is very much Irish, no matter where his father is from. For Casey to describe him as Indian and not Irish is just begging for someone to work the racial angle of the story - as if one needed any more excuse.

Casey managed to accidentally bungle his way onto an issue which apparently does resonate with the electorate, something which none of his opponents have been able to do incidentally and helps his cause further. But he did so, whether intentionally or not, by using language which is technically incorrect and as we so often see, the PR aspects of campaigns are about minding your p's and q's while waiting for others to forget their own.

What's done is done though and now he should have been focusing on the specifics of the issue, i.e. who is entitled to get what from the state and why, attempting to distance himself from the ethnicity debate and "who said what racist when" aspects that can still damage any potential gains.

But here he is quoted labeling the most senior politician in the country as being of a different nationality to what he actually is...............when it doesn't even hold any relevance to the conversation.

So no to your question, this isn't about political correctness, snowflakes, or even millennials for that matter. It's just another example of bungling incompetence from one of our 'Presidential' candidates.

First off, it wasn't me who quoted it.

However - Ethnicity is not a nationality, Leo is of mixed race ethnicity, irish/indian.

This was made a fairly big deal about when he became Taoiseach "homosexual and Indian heritage" as how much as a country we have progressed.

You.mighy need to re-read the article there chief because ethnicity and nationality are mutually exclusive, hence why Casey has called BS on our fellow Irish travellers been given special status as such.

richiepurgas

The only other person I've heard describe our Taoiseach in such terms was Lord Kilclooney the unionist previously aka John Taylor.
Casey is in distinguished company.:rolleyes:

An Ciarraioch

Royal Legend wrote: »

BadTurtle wrote: »

There's also a vacuum for a candidate that incites hatred in the less well educated based on what they don't have and what they perceive is being given to people of different races and cultures. Casey is appealing to that cohort as well, and it's working.

so now you are saying its less well educated people who buy into Casey? as to what is actual and perceived in relation to what a high percentage of travelers take from the state without giving much if anything back, yet argue that they should get more?Travelers are Irish people, but they want to keep the divide because it suits them in some cases to be marginalized. Note that anything that is wrong in traveler culture like homophobia, suicide, crime, abuse of women, its the states fault, listen back to the interview with the spokesperson from Pavee point on primetime the other night and tell me different. According to RTE employee John Connors, its ok to destroy a Lidl and all Gardai are scum, according to Margaret Cash its the Governments fault as well, go figure :mad:

What can be safely said is that it's politics of the lowest common denominator - his conventional message was failing to gain traction, so he began flailing around for a convenient political target, it was Travellers last week, social welfare recipients today, possibly someone else again on Prime Time.

An Ciarraioch

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Adamcp898 wrote: »

What you had quoted was essentially a tabloid article, and that was the focus of my post.

Leo Varadkar was born in Ireland, and is very much Irish, no matter where his father is from. For Casey to describe him as Indian and not Irish is just begging for someone to work the racial angle of the story - as if one needed any more excuse.

Casey managed to accidentally bungle his way onto an issue which apparently does resonate with the electorate, something which none of his opponents have been able to do incidentally and helps his cause further. But he did so, whether intentionally or not, by using language which is technically incorrect and as we so often see, the PR aspects of campaigns are about minding your p's and q's while waiting for others to forget their own.

What's done is done though and now he should have been focusing on the specifics of the issue, i.e. who is entitled to get what from the state and why, attempting to distance himself from the ethnicity debate and "who said what racist when" aspects that can still damage any potential gains.

But here he is quoted labeling the most senior politician in the country as being of a different nationality to what he actually is...............when it doesn't even hold any relevance to the conversation.

So no to your question, this isn't about political correctness, snowflakes, or even millennials for that matter. It's just another example of bungling incompetence from one of our 'Presidential' candidates.

First off, it wasn't me who quoted it.

However - Ethnicity is not a nationality, Leo is of mixed race ethnicity, irish/indian.

This was made a fairly big deal about when he became Taoiseach "homosexual and Indian heritage" as how much as a country we have progressed.

You.mighy need to re-read the article there chief because ethnicity and nationality are mutually exclusive, hence why Casey has called BS on our fellow Irish travellers been given special status as such.

Bizarrely, Eoghan Harris of all people may have come up with the best response to such matters today, by considering a debate between integration, where communities coalesce but their cultural differences are respected, and assimilation, where they are gradually absorbed into the dominant culture over time.

Varadkar himself appears to have adopted the latter principle, in that he acknowledges his roots, but doesn't consider himself as anything other than Irish, and based on the various citizenship ceremonies in recent years, most immigrants appear to prefer this also.

Adamcp898

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

First off, it wasn't me who quoted it.

However - Ethnicity is not a nationality, Leo is of mixed race ethnicity, irish/indian.

This was made a fairly big deal about when he became Taoiseach "homosexual and Indian heritage" as how much as a country we have progressed.

You.mighy need to re-read the article there chief because ethnicity and nationality are mutually exclusive, hence why Casey has called BS on our fellow Irish travellers been given special status as such.

Fine, the article you were referring to. Clear enough?

But you might need to re-read my post there anyway, chief. I'm clearly talking about the reporting in terms of its tabloid nature and why Casey needs to be better with his wording otherwise he has nobody to blame but himself when coverage like this is thrown his way. I'm not debating what Leo may or may not be as you seem to be under the impression.

McMurphy

richiepurgas wrote: »

The only other person I've heard describe our Taoiseach in such terms was Lord Kilclooney the unionist previously aka John Taylor.
Casey is in distinguished company.:rolleyes:

The indo were targeting readers of a certain type of demographic with that rather misleading click bait headline.

I suggest you read the aricle in full, and don't fall for their gutter journalism.

batgoat

Royal Legend wrote: »

so now you are saying its less well educated people who buy into Casey?

as to what is actual and perceived in relation to what a high percentage of travelers take from the state without giving much if anything back, yet argue that they should get more?

Travelers are Irish people, but they want to keep the divide because it suits them in some cases to be marginalized. Note that anything that is wrong in traveler culture like homophobia, suicide, crime, abuse of women, its the states fault, listen back to the interview with the spokesperson from Pavee point on primetime the other night and tell me different. According to RTE employee John Connors, its ok to destroy a Lidl and all Gardai are scum, according to Margaret Cash its the Governments fault as well, go figure
:mad:

I wouldn't say it relates to being less educated in terms of voting for Casey. But I would say it's not a sign of a particularly intelligent person if they're voting for Casey based on a single issue that he has no influence over.

FrancieBrady

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

What can be safely said is that it's politics of the lowest common denominator - his conventional message was failing to gain traction, so he began flailing around for a convenient political target, it was Travellers last week, social welfare recipients today, possibly someone else again on Prime Time.

It is to be 'broadband' this week apparently. He tried to blunder his way to complaining about it on his shambles of a radio interview with Aine Lawlor.

Royal Legend

batgoat wrote: »

I wouldn't say it relates to being less educated in terms of voting for Casey. But I would say it's not a sign of a particularly intelligent person if they're voting for Casey based on a single issue that he has no influence over.

no its a sign of people voting for the best of the rest in terms of the presidency, when we feel we cannot vote for the incumbent, because we are not swayed by political and media bias.
MDH has many questions to answer, but he won't and he won't be called out on it by the media. maybe the questions are small, but he is dismissing all of them and trying to lump the serious questions with the nonsense questions, with his so called "list"
what we have is a champagne socialist president, a person who believes he is intellectually superior to everyone else. this is just my opinion by the way, and it is the reason I cannot vote for him
So i will vote for what i prescribe as the best of the rest, which at this point in time is Casey

oscarBravo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It is to be 'broadband' this week apparently. He tried to blunder his way to complaining about it on his shambles of a radio interview with Aine Lawlor.

His answer to the problem seems to be "5G for everyone!" so he can safely be ignored as completely clueless on this issue too.

batgoat

Royal Legend wrote: »

no its a sign of people voting for the best of the rest in terms of the presidency, when we feel we cannot vote for the incumbent, because we are not swayed by political and media bias.
MDH has many questions to answer, but he won't and he won't be called out on it by the media. maybe the questions are small, but he is dismissing all of them and trying to lump the serious questions with the nonsense questions, with hi so called "list"
what we have is a champagne socialist president, a person who believes he is intellectually superior to everyone else. this is just my opinion by the way, and it is the reason I cannot vote for him
So i will vote for what i prescribe as the best of the rest, which at this point in time is Casey

I actually think Michael D has done a good job as president. This view is shared by many. If a guy behaving like Trump is viewed as a positive, my assessment of intelligence of the people choosing to vote for casey based on a single statement holds.

Royal Legend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again you generalise like Casey did.
Because 3 members of the travelling community say x, that means all travellers say x.

There are different points of view even within Pavee Point, not to mention the community as a whole.

Try cherrypicking 3 opinions out of any other community and theorising that that is how that entire community feel, and you might see the ridiculousness of what you are doing.

Like Casey you need to be told again and again that that is inciteful and dangerous.

Get some sleep Francie you're talking more crap as the days go on

The first is a spokesperson for Pavee point, surely if he is a "spokesperson" then he is stating what Pavee point believes, if not then he is not a spokesperson, have not seen anyone coming out from Pavee point saying that this fella does not speak for us

Second fella is a TV personality, who was given a series by RTE and constantly turns up on National TV. Again, I have not heard anyone from the travelling community coming out and condemning his remarks about the supermarket or his vile comment about the Garda.

The last one is just a criminal, who was given significant airtime by the national station without them looking into her background and now rather than admit their mistake and condemn her, they just ignore what she does.

oscarBravo

Royal Legend wrote: »

So i will vote for what i prescribe as the best of the rest, which at this point in time is Casey

What makes him "the best of the rest"?

Actual qualities to be President of Ireland, mind?

McMurphy

Adamcp898 wrote: »

Fine, the article you were referring to. Clear enough?

But you might need to re-read my post there anyway, chief. I'm clearly talking about the reporting in terms of its tabloid nature and why Casey needs to be better with his wording otherwise he has nobody to blame but himself when coverage like this is thrown his way. I'm not debating what Leo may or may not be as you seem to be under the impression.

I don't think casey penned the aricle in question. How can he control if a journalist deliberately wires a misleading article and or headline?

FrancieBrady

Royal Legend wrote: »

Get some sleep Francie you're talking more crap as the days go on

The first is a spokesperson for Pavee point, surely if he is a "spokesperson" then he is stating what Pavee point believes, if not then he is not a spokesperson, have not seen anyone coming out from Pavee point saying that this fella does not speak for us

Second fella is a TV personality, who was given a series by RTE and constantly turns up on National TV. Again, I have not heard anyone from the travelling community coming out and condemning his remarks about the supermarket or his vile comment about the Garda.

The last one is just a criminal, who was given significant airtime by the national station without them looking into her background and now rather than admit their mistake and condemn her, they just ignore what she does.

3 individuals does not a community make.

Collins may speak as a spokesman but the actual fact (inconveinient for you as it is) is that there are others even within PP that have different views.

The other 2, you could just as easily pick 2 settled members of the community and pretend they represent us all.

As I said, that is just ridiculous and silly.

Royal Legend

oscarBravo wrote: »

What makes him "the best of the rest"?

Actual qualities to be President of Ireland, mind?

That he is speaking his mind and being imo honest. the rest are talking to a script and have little better to offer, Gallagher trying to be a statesman, Duffy with his rehearsed PR, O'Riarda I thought let her self down in the last debate by getting personal and the last lady is out of her depth.

McMurphy

Any word from MDH on the PSNI contradicting him with the faux security reasons?

Last I heard his office was refusing to comment.

Tell me how

Royal Legend wrote: »

So i will vote for what i prescribe as the best of the rest, which at this point in time is Casey

Not, by any measure could Peter be considered suitable for the office of the President.

He may do ok on Friday, many say they will vote for him but he is bereft of knowledge on the role and is not what you could call statesmanlike.

On the first debate, he was making blase comments about having females on his council of state but had no names and it was clear it was a soundbite he was using.

Michael D is rightly the runaway leader, Sean Gallagher could actually play the part if he was in office, Joan Freeman likewise if she had a good private secretary to keep her on point, Duffy and Ni Riada in my view would seek to use the role more than fulfil it, and Casey, I don't believe would even like the job if he was in it.

Royal Legend

FrancieBrady wrote: »

3 individuals does not a community make.

Collins may speak as a spokesman but the actual fact (inconveinient for you as it is) is that there are others even within PP that have different views.

The other 2, you could just as easily pick 2 settled members of the community and pretend they represent us all.

As I said, that is just ridiculous and silly.

You're talking out of your backside Francie, if an organisation has a spokesperson and they speak out contrary to the organisation they represent, that said organisation will come out and state that this persons opinions do not represent this organisation. you will have to show where Pavee point have stated this. A spokesman speaks for the majority of the organisation, there will always be dissenting voices, plus how exactly do you know that it is fact that there are differing views in PP?

As for the other two, they have been brought to the fore by the media, just like Casey, difference is that they are not pulled up on their comments by said media, unlike Casey

FrancieBrady

Royal Legend wrote: »

You're talking out of your backside Francie, if an organisation has a spokesperson and they speak out contrary to the organisation they represent, that said organisation will come out and state that this persons opinions do not represent this organisation. you will have to show where Pavee point have stated this. A spokesman speaks for the majority of the organisation, there will always be dissenting voices, plus how exactly do you know that it is fact that there are differing views in PP?

As for the other two, they have been brought to the fore by the media, just like Casey, difference is that they are not pulled up on their comments by said media, unlike Casey

Are you denying that there are contrary views within Pavee Point? Because you would be totally wrong.
Pavee Point is comprised of Travellers, Roma and members of the majority population working in partnership at national, regional, local and international levels.

Collins, is not the only opinion within it. Do some basic research before generalising please.
And again, Pavee Point does not represent all travellers views either.

tayto lover

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you denying that there are contrary views within Pavee Point? Because you would be totally wrong.
Pavee Point is comprised of Travellers, Roma and members of the majority population working in partnership at national, regional, local and international levels.

Collins, is not the only opinion within it. Do some basic research before generalising please.
And again, Pavee Point does not represent all travellers views either.

You must have comments from those insiders to support this Francie?

Zubeneschamali

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Last I heard his office was refusing to comment.

Last I heard, so was the PSNI.

Rhineshark

tayto lover wrote: »

You must have comments from those insiders to support this Francie?

Never knew how controversial it was to say that Travellors either don't neccessarily all think alike and/or are not a hive mind of Pavee Point.

Apparently it is though.

Rhineshark

tayto lover wrote: »

You must have comments from those insiders to support this Francie?

Never knew how controversial it was to say that Travellors either don't neccessarily all think alike and/or are not a hive mind of Pavee Point.

Apparently it is though.

tayto lover

Rhineshark wrote: »

Never knew how controversial it was to say that Travellors either don't neccessarily all think alike and/or are not a hive mind of Pavee Point.

Apparently it is though.

No but a quote from even one dissenting voice would be nice to read.

FrancieBrady

tayto lover wrote: »

You must have comments from those insiders to support this Francie?

Ben Archibald is much more critical of some traveller behaviour than Collins.

Generalising about travellers does not help the debate that is and has to take place within the travelling community.
Collins, tends to circle the wagons around issues I think.